So you care about the characters, at least enough to see what happens. The gameplay is great, as far as it being a thru person stealth action game.

But you will not pay money fr it because it rubs you the wrong way in a way that has nothing to do with the gameplay or presentation bt duet the kinda themes or the authentic, grotesque and even glamorized depiction of violence it embodies?

Hehe, I hope you know the reasons you hate that game, are the reasons it would end up going down in history as one of the best games ever made and ultimately become a cult classic. It means ND succeeded. 

Now if they really want to push that cult classic angle, they should never make a Part 3. Just make remasters/remakes of part 1 and two and call it a day.

Are you one of those masochists on VGC? People that say they bought a console and hate all the games on it, or that burn 20h of their life on something they are hating but think 60USD is just to much money? Well watching 4 seasons of an Anime that you are not liking is even more strange.

2012, 2014 and 2019 were slow, but yeah, its almost always really strong.

I do have a problem with the themes, but not at all with the violence and its realistic depiction.

If a game as story-focused as TLoU2 spends many, many hours trying to teach me a lesson that i got after the first 20 minutes, it just becomes preachy and a bore-fest. I'm not through yet, but up until now, it is by far not as smart or controversial as it thinks it is.

There are many other big story reasons I don't like the game (yet - still being a bit hopeful for them to turn it around). But I can't get into those due to spoilers. Just rest assured that ND did not at all succeed on me. In general yes, many seem to like it, but not on me.

Hehe, yeah, I guess you are right, it is a bit masochistic. But don't you ever have this urge to see something through that you once loved? I want to emphazise that I loved TLoU1 and Attack on Titan 1. So they had their hooks in me.

I have even more examples: I read Don Quijote 2, even though it bored me, just because I loved part 1. I wanted to see what happens to him. I watched some marvel movies that I had no interest in, just because they are part of something bigger that I do have interest in.

Let's not be too black or white here. I don't really hate TLoU2, have not even seen it through. But I surely don't like it enough to warrant a purchase.

Well, most years since PS1 days will have great games, we had Gran Turismo selling 10-15 million since always, and great games all the time, if you go back to 2005 you have God of War and Shadow of the Collosus, for example. December 1999 Sony had The Legend of Dragoon and Gran Turismo 2, on a single month.

But I kinda agree that was in 2009 that Sony first party studios as a whole started a new era.

Because the PS3 was heavily underperforming for Sony expectations, and the 360 was taking so much market share to be as relevant as it was in the whole picture (destroying it on NA and being destroyed on EU and AS), Sony had to make a big move on several aspects of their strategy, and one of them was heavy investiments on first party games.

Then we got to 2009 and Uncharted 2 released and showed everybody what the fruits of that would start to give. Then we got God of War 3, Gran Turismo 5, and so on, until The Last of Us, which was when the whole thing was clear for everybody, Sony was in another level now, to the point that even as the PS3 and 360 had similar numbers, everybody was just talking about Sony games by the end of the generation, crowned by The Last of Us.

After that Sony first party games image was consolidated and carried over to the next gen, which with the PS4 being very successful made them a bigger audience to sell for, and even as it was between PS1 and PS2 success, Sony first party games appeal, recognition and sales were like never, now it wasn't just Gran Turismo that could sell into the 10M territory, we got new IPs doing it, we got new a IP doing 20M actually, and even a 2nd party game smashed the 10M bar.

By the end of this gen Sony will have since 2009 at least 7 games from 6 different franchises have surpassed 10M (Gran Turismo 5, The Last of Us, Uncharted 4, Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War, Spider Man, The Last of Us Part 2 (as its very likely it will with 4M in 3 days)), compared to 3 games from the same franchise before (Gran Turismo 1, 3, 4). Worth noting that Gran Turismo sales actually declined after 2010, opposed to the trend of big increases of the other games.

So yeah, 2009 was kinda of a turning point for Sony first party games even as yes, if we go back we'll also find lots of amazing games, and actually some of my favorites, including my favorite, too.

Well, most years since PS1 days will have great games, we had Gran Turismo selling 10-15 million since always, and great games all the time, if you go back to 2005 you have God of War and Shadow of the Collosus, for example. December 1999 Sony had The Legend of Dragoon and Gran Turismo 2, on a single month.

But I kinda agree that was in 2009 that Sony first party studios as a whole started a new era.

Because the PS3 was heavily underperforming for Sony expectations, and the 360 was taking so much market share to be as relevant as it was in the whole picture (destroying it on NA and being destroyed on EU and AS), Sony had to make a big move on several aspects of their strategy, and one of them was heavy investiments on first party games.

Then we got to 2009 and Uncharted 2 released and showed everybody what the fruits of that would start to give. Then we got God of War 3, Gran Turismo 5, and so on, until The Last of Us, which was when the whole thing was clear for everybody, Sony was in another level now, to the point that even as the PS3 and 360 had similar numbers, everybody was just talking about Sony games by the end of the generation, crowned by The Last of Us.

After that Sony first party games image was consolidated and carried over to the next gen, which with the PS4 being very successful made them a bigger audience to sell for, and even as it was between PS1 and PS2 success, Sony first party games appeal, recognition and sales were like never, now it wasn't just Gran Turismo that could sell into the 10M territory, we got new IPs doing it, we got new a IP doing 20M actually, and even a 2nd party game smashed the 10M bar.

By the end of this gen Sony will have since 2009 at least 7 games from 6 different franchises have surpassed 10M (Gran Turismo 5, The Last of Us, Uncharted 4, Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War, Spider Man, The Last of Us Part 2 (as its very likely it will with 4M in 3 days)), compared to 3 games from the same franchise before (Gran Turismo 1, 3, 4). Worth noting that Gran Turismo sales actually declined after 2010, opposed to the trend of big increases of the other games.

So yeah, 2009 was kinda of a turning point for Sony first party games even as yes, if we go back we'll also find lots of amazing games, and actually some of my favorites, including my favorite, too.

I don't know about that, but I made room for it (and Ghost of Tsushima, thought I doubt it) when I said: at least.

GTS is supposed to have sold around 8M copies but we don't know for sure, and with next gen starting in some months I doubt if its behind 9M right now it has any change of topping 10M.

GT7 should have better chances, tho, as GTS online focus put a good bunch of people away, including me, that were once all over the series.

I'm very hopeful for GT7 now, let's see how it goes.

I guess we see things differently. I didn't feel the game was preaching at all. Yes there is more LGBTQI+ representation than what you would find in average on real life, and Abby is quite dumb, and there are some parts where they talk about respecting this community and intolerance, but that is done very naturally and short.

I do follow some things that I loved but don't like as much to see how it end, but not hating, just liking it a tad less. When something just get tiring instead of enjoyable I quit.

For me a game that I would think is worthy 20h of my time seeing on YT (I hate seeing gameplay, just see short sessions of parts I have no idea what I need to do on the game) would be worthy purchasing, perhaps not full price but in that case I would also not be eager to watch on release as well.

Based on PD schedules GT7 should still be indeed at least a year away, probably more.

But I doubt GTS will be of much relevancy with the PS5 around, only the top level games should still have the power to move considerable amounts after this holidays.

Yeah, totally, people like to consume differently. Interesting to hear, that what I do is out of the question for you.

I just want it to be out there that I have no problems at all with TLoU2's representation of different charakters. Honestly, I think it is great that we get actiony charakters like Nadine (U4/Lost Legacy) or the one now in TLoU2 that are very muscular. It always strikes me as unbelievable when supermodels brawl 120 kg dudes.

It is actually quite good how they do representation. Because the characters stories and personalities are never confined by their sexuality, skin colour, etc. For example, the game is not at all about Ellie being a lesbian, she just happens to be one. Makes it feel so natural and normal. I really like that.

I called the game preachy because a large portion of the game revolves around a moral lesson, that is thaught with as much subtlety as any cartoon can muster. The dialogue is cringy at times (at others the writing as quite good). The pacing is awful. Some scenes seem to not connect at all. Motivation of some characters is questionable at best. How their arcs form is very unsatisfying. And so much more, that I can't say without using names and spoiling stuff. It is a in quite some parts a hot, irredeemable mess. Tonight I'll be watching the ending. I hope my opinion is swayed in a bit of a positive direction.