John2290 said:
hunter_alien said:
A clear endgame visible? Really? Pax Americana? The much propagated "end of history?" Do any of these ring a bell to you? Or do these "freedoms" only apply to you and you only? Where was that much-touted freedom in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, most of Latin America or Africa? Where they decimated by the nasty Chinese influence as well? You are talking about an open war as a quick solution, yet the US is bogged down in several military quagmires and millions of innocent lives where and are constantly lost.
I'm really sorry, but even though there are clear issues with China, absolutely disgusting propaganda and "monstrosity machinery" analogies apply to any global power at any time in history.
Your freedom for which your ancestors gave their lives were paid by the blood of Native Americans and slaves in general, so don't you dare bring that bullshit into the discussion. The freedom that was "won" was only for the privileged few.
Is China any better? Who knows, but hey, at least they did not go around the world and bombed millions in the name of a failed ideal 
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I'm not American and I will dare, A whole generation of young men from western allied nations gave up their lives so I could dare and you could disagree and their sons and the sons of their sons fought to protect it and save our future arses from the communism in the decades after as from nuclear war before mutually assured distruction was on the table. All our ancestors. All our people who lived not long ago, just out of reach of a lifetime but we are already going to forget what they gave us and ignore their sacrifice while kicking the can down the road for the people after usto deal with so they can suffer instead, fuck that.
And yes, there is a clear goal in the manipulation to destabilise and cause confusion. They are attacking from within and if you don't believe me, have a look at the most recent few months on covid alone and how they managed to manipulate US citizens to seed fear but do a dive and find the countless other attempts they've been exposed of before covid, just the times they've been caught and exposed, mind.
Like I said, I am against those wars and the murder for oil in the middle east. This is vastly different, it's the difference in how we get to live not with what we get to live. It's not material and it's something you can't easily get back without a generation or many generations suffering in the attempt. It's akin to letting fascism run a much a century ago and there were plenty like you back then who thought fascism would be something that could co exist, it was as devisive as letting China do their thing but we all know how that went. Like it or not, China and the West can't exist together when the west pulls out, one has to go or one has to pull back to the nation level. Trump and co might do it but it's very unlikely in his timeframe for office and the CCP have all the time they need with no tricky managment changes to work around, they can pull off a near Orwellian siuation on the world given enough time and by near I mean almost exactly. They already have managed it near well enough on their own people and you can see those tendrils grabbing onto the rest of the world if you just look, just take the time to research and access it.
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They can exist and will exist. Both will change, bot change on a daily basis.
Also in the cold war, the mutually assured destruction was weel, mutual, and in all fairness, only the west used a nuclear weapon in an open conflict, so it was no wonder there was a massive amount of paranoia in the eastern block that they will do it again, as they threatened several times during open hostilities even as early as the Korean war.
And I am sorry for calling you American. I admit I did not check your profile. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Everything I say here is intended to be pointed toward political entities and not the common folk, as most of them are decent human beings (pretty much anywhere you would go on the world). But come on, if one country has an even shadier past than the US, that has to be the UK )) So yeah, while it's nice to shed a tear for our loved ones, don't forget that many who "died for our freedoms" were the same who enforced the brutal repressions on the Indian subcontinent that cost just there the lives of millions.
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