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Forums - Politics Discussion - Do We Really Want a New Cold War?

In 10 years, I am certain many of us are going to enjoy seeing what Chinese expansionism into Africa will look like. But like so many authoritarian regimes, its destined to fail at some point.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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Better than a hot one at least.



Lube Me Up

Soundwave said:

The freaking Taliban outlasted the US in Afghanistan, China is not some back water military power. In Vietnam the US got punched in the face and eventually decided they didn't want any more. The US does not have the stomach to be in a war with China, they want wars to be easy and short and that would not be the case.

China also holds tremendous amount of the US' debt, they could collapse the US economy by calling it in. Most large US corporations also do business in China and $$$$ is what controls the US gov't not principals or morals.

The situation is not simple.

You may not know this but China fought Vietnam shortly after the US-Vietnam war and lost as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War

Vietnam was able to continue to impose their will on the Khmer Rouge after the Chinese conflict which was their aim.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

hunter_alien said

Is China any better? Who knows, but hey, at least they did not go around the world and bombed millions in the name of a failed ideal

Ok, let's play along.  Which country is China's closest ally?  On the other hand, which country is the USA's closest ally? Canada? UK? Israel?...etc.

Also, in WW2, the USA fought against Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany, today those countries are some of the closest allies to the USA.  Again, I ask a question: What countries are allied to China?

Last edited by Nighthawk117 - on 25 May 2020

John2290 said:
Eagle367 said:

I'll interject and say I disagree with your entire premise. The lines aren't clearly drawn between west and east and China and US are a lot more intertwined than US and USSR ever were. If China does good, that would mean the west and US are doing good as well and China would love a vibrant and thriving west. China has dealings with all western nations in many avenues from telecoms to even movies and video games like Tencent and even things like the one belt one road initiative. And China's allies work well with US as well. China deals a lot with India for example whose an ally of Russia and US. And Pakistan is so close to China but it's history with US is well known, and many Chinese work in Japan, a US ally. Plus universities in the West are filled with Chinese students. The lines aren't clear at all and many nations would hate to choose sides.

The only way they choose sides is if US or China CHOOSES to start WW3. It's the choice of the super powers and right now, the US seems much more eager for war as a falling empire than China as a rising one.

Both seem equally eager and China is acitvely preparing and the poking and proding during a pandemic is a clear sign they are keen on the idea, hopefully provoking I would imagine so they can get more international support. 

The US is not a failing power, they were stronger than they ever were the month before the pandemic and looked to be on a continuing strength. Now with them pulling their dick out of China they will only increase in strength while China looses economical strengths simultaneously with so many countries eager to get out and quit the outsourcing. China know this and that's why so many analysts think this will be Chinas time to do the grab, right after the pandemic clears but not long enough to loose that strength. 

There are many types of war the US and China could engage in short of troops on the ground but this particular thread is concerning a cold war and there are so many nations that can be curently used as proxy, The US are already in Veneuzalla under the guise of a drug war which is a brittle front for what it actually is. I'd prefer they go to a full on hot war and pull the plaster off, have it over quick and fast instead of ending up with another Korea and Vietnam situation... wouldn't you? The topic of the thread, like, Do we really need a cold war? I say no, we need a hot war. Quick and fast and a good boom after, instead of decades long mess with the threath og nuclear war looming as the threats fly. 

What in the what? I don't think we live in the same reality. I disagree with almost all your opinions of course but I don't think you have the facts straight either. First of all, countries aren't eager to stop their relationship with China. Many are reluctant and doing it because of the US, but rarely are any of them eager.

Secondly, the US is a falling empire. It lost every conflict it took part in, it's domestically becoming worse and worse, it's institutions becoming weaker, stupid inept leadership is emerging, people are losing confidence in all institutions, other countries are laughing at or pitying Americans. 

Thirdly, your so called "hot war" or as the rest of us call it, a war, is more dangerous and more likely to result in nukes falling and only benefits the rich oligarchs and no one else. Even they might not like it because it will start WW3 and might be the end of the US and China. 

Fourthly, there is no indication China is eager to participate in any war, much less with it's most valuable trading partner. 

Sorry but we can't have a discussion when we don't even look at reality the same way. Your points to me look like you are saying it's right while pointing left.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

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Nighthawk117 said:
hunter_alien said

Is China any better? Who knows, but hey, at least they did not go around the world and bombed millions in the name of a failed ideal

Ok, let's play along.  Which country is China's closest ally?  On the other hand, which country is the USA's closest ally? Canada? UK? Israel?...etc.

Also, in WW2, the USA fought against Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany, today those countries are some of the closest allies to the USA.  Again, I ask a question: What countries are allied to China?

Imagine giving Israel as an example of a good country to ally with. But to answer your question and not to say whether the ally is good or bad, the answer is easy. Pakistan, NK, Russia, Bangladesh, a lot of South and Central America, Central Asia, a lot of African countries, Sri Lanka, Nepal. Not commenting on the goodness or badness of these countries though.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

mrstickball said:
In 10 years, I am certain many of us are going to enjoy seeing what Chinese expansionism into Africa will look like. But like so many authoritarian regimes, its destined to fail at some point.

I mean just look at how the US is starting to fail before our very eyes.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

John2290 said:
hunter_alien said:

A clear endgame visible? Really? Pax Americana? The much propagated "end of history?" Do any of these ring a bell to you? Or do these "freedoms" only apply to you and you only? Where was that much-touted freedom in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, most of Latin America or Africa? Where they decimated by the nasty Chinese influence as well? You are talking about an open war as a quick solution, yet the US is bogged down in several military quagmires and millions of innocent lives where and are constantly lost.

I'm really sorry, but even though there are clear issues with China, absolutely disgusting propaganda and "monstrosity machinery" analogies apply to any global power at any time in history.

Your freedom for which your ancestors gave their lives were paid by the blood of Native Americans and slaves in general, so don't you dare bring that bullshit into the discussion. The freedom that was "won" was only for the privileged few.

Is China any better? Who knows, but hey, at least they did not go around the world and bombed millions in the name of a failed ideal

I'm not American and I will dare, A whole generation of young men from western allied nations gave up their lives so I could dare and you could disagree and their sons and the sons of their sons fought to protect it and save our future arses from the communism in the decades after as from nuclear war before mutually assured distruction was on the table. 

And yes, there is a clear goal in the manipulation to destabilise and cause confusion. They are attacking from within and if you don't believe me, have a look at the most recent few months on covid alone and how they managed to manipulate US citizens to seed fear but do a dive and find the countless other attempts they've been exposed of before covid, just the times they've been caught and exposed, mind. 

Like I said, I am against those wars and the murder for oil in the middle east. This is vastly different, it's the difference in how we get to live not with what we get to live. It's not material and it's something you can't easily get back without a generation or many generations suffering in the attempt. It's akin to letting fascism run a much a century ago and there were plenty like you back then who thought fascism would be something that could co exist, it was as devisive as letting China do their thing but we all know how that went. Like it or not, China and the West can't exist together when the west pulls out, one has to go or one has to pull back to the nation level. Trump and co might do it but it's very unlikely in his timeframe for office and the CCP have all the time they need with no tricky managment changes to work around, they can pull off a near Orwellian siuation on the world given enough time and by near I mean almost exactly. They already have managed it near well enough on their own people and you can see those tendrils grabbing onto the rest of the world if you just look, just take the time to research and access it. 

You really need to lay off the propaganda. And this is coming from someone that would rather have a US hegemony led status quo rather than a Chinese one.



I think it's funny how Americans are so intent on going to war with China in some capacity when China is the country that props the US up. It's kind of like how the US monopolistic businesses propped up European countries in the inter-war period. When the US went down, so did Europe.

If China goes down, the US goes down.

But there are three countries that the world might be better off if they were broken apart: China, Russia, and the US. Those three countries have caused the most strife in the world since WW2.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Will Asians become more democratic and progressive when they come into contact with Westerners?
It hasn't sunk in yet.