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Forums - Politics Discussion - Do We Really Want a New Cold War?

Mnementh said:
Farsala said:

You forget to mention that all 3 were occupied by the US. Even Vietnam became less communist and more sympathetic to the west after a brief occupation. Hong Kong and Macau was occupied for a long time. Germany was occupied by the west and the USSR, but eventually the western occupation won out. That kind of points to occupying China as better.

Taiwan was never occupied by the US. South Korea wasn't really, but they both fought together against North Korea. But the military dictatorship remained long after the Korean War. The internal change in South Korea wasn't through militaric action. The only one that changed strongly during the occupation was Japan, as a loser in WW2. But even since then, Japan made a lot of modernization.

That's true, they were occupied by Japan. After the war they looked to Japan for guidance, since they were enemies of the CCP. So I put them together.



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Farsala said:
Mnementh said:

Taiwan was never occupied by the US. South Korea wasn't really, but they both fought together against North Korea. But the military dictatorship remained long after the Korean War. The internal change in South Korea wasn't through militaric action. The only one that changed strongly during the occupation was Japan, as a loser in WW2. But even since then, Japan made a lot of modernization.

That's true, they were occupied by Japan. After the war they looked to Japan for guidance, since they were enemies of the CCP. So I put them together.

China/Taiwan were very much enemies of Japan and are to this day not very happy. Looking at Japan for guidance is not what was happening.



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Oneeee-Chan!!! said:
This is also the responsibility of the Japanese citizens, but the pro-U.S. government basically doesn't seem to care much about democracy. In addition, the democratization of Taiwan and South Korea began with the general public. I don't know how much western countries have supported it.

Yeah, I agree that the democratization process was based on the general public, not some 'nation-building' process. We could discuss how much this was influenced by peaceful exchange with the west, but at least that wasn't a roadblock.



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Mnementh said:
Farsala said:

That's true, they were occupied by Japan. After the war they looked to Japan for guidance, since they were enemies of the CCP. So I put them together.

China/Taiwan were very much enemies of Japan and are to this day not very happy. Looking at Japan for guidance is not what was happening.

Huh? Taiwan and Japan have been close allies since 1952. Taiwan only got as strong as it did due to strong diplomatic ties to Japan.



Eagle367 said:

Honestly the portal of the evil chinese is hilarious in this thread. A lot is pure be propaganda. It's honestly Red Scare 2: Electric Bugaloo. China is evil and you don't need to go down slippery slopes to say they are so damn scary. The treatment of Uyughurs is horrendous for example. But it's a weird laughable thing. Oh China will make the world Orwellian. Oh China will control when and how you poop. Oh China will stare at you while you sleep. Oh China will put monitoring equipment in your pets. Oh China will make the moon into one big camera. Oh China will tell you who to marry. Oh China will name every kid themselves and it will be numbers instead of names, Oh China will create a life book for everyone to tell them how their life will pan out. Oh China will slap you when you talk back to your parents. Oh China will tell you to clean your room or you're in big trouble mister.

Look, it's your choice if you choose to drink the Kool-aid of the CCP. As for me, I just want to see Huawei burn to the ground. That alone is satisfaction enough.



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Oneeee-Chan!!! said:
This is also the responsibility of the Japanese citizens, but the pro-U.S. government basically doesn't seem to care much about democracy. In addition, the democratization of Taiwan and South Korea began with the general public. I don't know how much western countries have supported it.

Well, I can tell you this much: Both Taiwan and South Korea's strongest ally is the good ole USA.



Eagle367 said:
Nighthawk117 said:

Really? Did the USA lose WW1 ? Did the USA lose in WW2? Please, indulge me with your infinite wisdom....

We are talking about the right now as in modern times as in 21st century. It's falling, it hasn't fell yet. So five me a modern example.

You believe the US lost in Afghanistan, really?  Are the Taliban still in power? Is the current government pro-USA?

You believe the US lost in Iraq? Is Saddam Hussein still in power? Is the current government pro-USA?



Eagle367 said:
Nighthawk117 said:

Ok, let's play along.  Which country is China's closest ally?  On the other hand, which country is the USA's closest ally? Canada? UK? Israel?...etc.

Also, in WW2, the USA fought against Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany, today those countries are some of the closest allies to the USA.  Again, I ask a question: What countries are allied to China?

Imagine giving Israel as an example of a good country to ally with. But to answer your question and not to say whether the ally is good or bad, the answer is easy. Pakistan, NK, Russia, Bangladesh, a lot of South and Central America, Central Asia, a lot of African countries, Sri Lanka, Nepal. Not commenting on the goodness or badness of these countries though.

Pakistan is a closer ally to the US, as shown by the Pakistani Air Force flying American made F-16s, and not some crappy fighter made in China. Russia is not an ally to China.  Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Nepal are shitty ass third world countries, who wants to be allied to them? Yes, NK is China's closest ally. However, that's like someone saying Charles Manson is their best friend.



Nighthawk117 said:
Eagle367 said:

We are talking about the right now as in modern times as in 21st century. It's falling, it hasn't fell yet. So five me a modern example.

You believe the US lost in Afghanistan, really?  Are the Taliban still in power? Is the current government pro-USA?

You believe the US lost in Iraq? Is Saddam Hussein still in power? Is the current government pro-USA?

Pro-USA? not really

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2020/01/29/stuck-in-the-middle-iraq-and-the-enduring-conflict-between-united-states-and-iran/
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/Iraqs-prime-minister-designate-zurfi-united-states-iran

The PM still is sort of, but for how long.

Afghanistan is slowly losing control as well despite finally having a cease fire.
https://www.vox.com/2020/2/21/21147020/us-afghanistan-taliban-peace-deal-pompeo

Peaceful revolutions move faster than this...



John2290 said:
Eagle367 said:

Honestly the portal of the evil chinese is hilarious in this thread. A lot is pure be propaganda. It's honestly Red Scare 2: Electric Bugaloo. China is evil and you don't need to go down slippery slopes to say they are so damn scary. The treatment of Uyughurs is horrendous for example. But it's a weird laughable thing. Oh China will make the world Orwellian. Oh China will control when and how you poop. Oh China will stare at you while you sleep. Oh China will put monitoring equipment in your pets. Oh China will make the moon into one big camera. Oh China will tell you who to marry. Oh China will name every kid themselves and it will be numbers instead of names, Oh China will create a life book for everyone to tell them how their life will pan out. Oh China will slap you when you talk back to your parents. Oh China will tell you to clean your room or you're in big trouble mister.

China doesn't need to make you do anything, they just have to have you believe you chose to do the thing and there is a big difference between choosing to do something because it's your will and choosing to do something so you aren't ranked down on the credit system and locked out of society. 

So you mean manufactured consent? The thing US has been doing for decades



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