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Forums - Politics Discussion - Do We Really Want a New Cold War?

Nighthawk117 said:
Eagle367 said:

Imagine giving Israel as an example of a good country to ally with. But to answer your question and not to say whether the ally is good or bad, the answer is easy. Pakistan, NK, Russia, Bangladesh, a lot of South and Central America, Central Asia, a lot of African countries, Sri Lanka, Nepal. Not commenting on the goodness or badness of these countries though.

Pakistan is a closer ally to the US, as shown by the Pakistani Air Force flying American made F-16s, and not some crappy fighter made in China. Russia is not an ally to China.  Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Nepal are shitty ass third world countries, who wants to be allied to them? Yes, NK is China's closest ally. However, that's like someone saying Charles Manson is their best friend.

I'd rather have them than Saudi Arabia and Israel. But if you think Pakistan is closer to the US, than you need to learn your history. No nation is closer to China than Pakistan. PIA trained chinese airlines and Pakistan voluntarily gave part of the disputed territory to China. Have US and Pakistan ever done something like CPEC. US/Pakistan is just a partnership of convenience, betrayal, back stabbing, trickery, intelligence and reluctance. Pakistan will always choose China over US.



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Eagle367 said:
Nighthawk117 said:

Pakistan is a closer ally to the US, as shown by the Pakistani Air Force flying American made F-16s, and not some crappy fighter made in China. Russia is not an ally to China.  Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Nepal are shitty ass third world countries, who wants to be allied to them? Yes, NK is China's closest ally. However, that's like someone saying Charles Manson is their best friend.

I'd rather have them than Saudi Arabia and Israel. But if you think Pakistan is closer to the US, than you need to learn your history. No nation is closer to China than Pakistan. PIA trained chinese airlines and Pakistan voluntarily gave part of the disputed territory to China. Have US and Pakistan ever done something like CPEC. US/Pakistan is just a partnership of convenience, betrayal, back stabbing, trickery, intelligence and reluctance. Pakistan will always choose China over US.

Not when it comes to their jet fighters.



SvennoJ said:
Nighthawk117 said:

You believe the US lost in Afghanistan, really?  Are the Taliban still in power? Is the current government pro-USA?

You believe the US lost in Iraq? Is Saddam Hussein still in power? Is the current government pro-USA?

Pro-USA? not really

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2020/01/29/stuck-in-the-middle-iraq-and-the-enduring-conflict-between-united-states-and-iran/
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/Iraqs-prime-minister-designate-zurfi-united-states-iran

The PM still is sort of, but for how long.

Afghanistan is slowly losing control as well despite finally having a cease fire.
https://www.vox.com/2020/2/21/21147020/us-afghanistan-taliban-peace-deal-pompeo

Peaceful revolutions move faster than this...

Would you agree that Afghanistan is more pro-USA than pro-China?



Here's more:"Financial aid to Pakistan since the 11 September 2001 attacks. Between 2002–2011, US Congress approved $18 billion in military and economic aid from the United States. However the Pakistan Treasury only received $8.647 billion in direct financial payments."



Pakistan–United States relations:
On 20 October 1947, two months and six days after Pakistan's independence, the United States established relations with Pakistan, making it amongst the first nations to establish relations with the new state. Pakistan allied itself with the United States during the Cold war era against the Soviet Union, and was an integral player in the CENTO and SEATO alliances.

Despite the instability of the relationship, both the countries are back to good relations and are allies against terrorism. Today the United States engages in extensive economic, social, and scientific assistance as well as vital military assistance while Pakistan continues to occupy a position in the United States' interests in Central and South Asia.

On 21 July 2019, Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan met with U.S. President Donald Trump in the White House. Both sides agreed to 'reset' the relationship between the two countries and agreed to the resumption of military aid to Pakistan. President Trump lauded Pakistan's efforts to end the war in Afghanistan due to Pakistan's participation in the Afghan peace process, and Imran Khan stated that there is no military solution for the Afghanistan quagmire and that Pakistan would assist the peace process in any way it could.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan%E2%80%93United_States_relations

Last edited by Nighthawk117 - on 26 May 2020

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Nighthawk117 said:
Eagle367 said:

I'd rather have them than Saudi Arabia and Israel. But if you think Pakistan is closer to the US, than you need to learn your history. No nation is closer to China than Pakistan. PIA trained chinese airlines and Pakistan voluntarily gave part of the disputed territory to China. Have US and Pakistan ever done something like CPEC. US/Pakistan is just a partnership of convenience, betrayal, back stabbing, trickery, intelligence and reluctance. Pakistan will always choose China over US.

Not when it comes to their jet fighters.

Who flipping cares

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economictimes.com/news/defence/china-to-authorise-pakistan-to-build-missiles-tanks-fc-1-xiaolong-combat-aircraft/amp_articleshow/57684105.cms

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1142361.shtml



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Farsala said:
Eagle367 said:

What the hell are you talking about? If China killed a million people since 2000, it would be huge news. Like seriously there is propaganda and then there is this. Straight up lying. And again, I never said China is good so your point is null and void. Both are evil. There is no good side. The entire premise is stupid since the US won't do anything based on ideals or morals and only based on short term profits for their war mongers and oligarchs. China doesn't work for the benefit of humanity either. Both are negative for the world but which is worse right now? I would say US by a mile. Hell Israel, Russia and Saudi Arabia are more dangerous than China right now.

I am just fighting hyperbole with hyperbole. If you can claim the US has killed millions since 2000, then that means that China has too by correlation.

Oh my freaking goodness you can't. The Iraq war has killed more than a million people alone and the sole cause of that is the US. China has got nothing to do with it and it hasn't done anything as horrendous in the 21st century



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John2290 said:
Eagle367 said:

So you mean manufactured consent? The thing US has been doing for decades

Not that I'm American but I'd rather be a wage slave than be on a social credit system in an indifferent culture. In the US you can be on the street and end up as a billionaire given the right opportunity and get up and go or a Janitor with the right idea who ends up in the high ranks of the company you were cleaning the toilets for, the latter is the case with the man who invented Flmaing hot cheetos. You can't do that on a social credit system, once you bottom out even if it's from bad luck, you'll not be able to get up again, it's designed so you take your own life and be an example for othera not to stop working like busy little bees or have a bad day, maybe thinknteice about going to your kids wedding or you parents funeral and instead work. It's nothing like the US. 

Again, you are making it way more overblown with propaganda and the social credit system is bad but not as bad as you are making it out to be. Plus you are way too much focusing on exceptions to the rule in the US. In general, the por are getting poorer and the wealth income gap is increasing. Your scenario is rare and extremely difficult to accomplish. The system in the US is rigged against working people



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Nighthawk117 said:

Pakistan–United States relations:
On 20 October 1947, two months and six days after Pakistan's independence, the United States established relations with Pakistan, making it amongst the first nations to establish relations with the new state. Pakistan allied itself with the United States during the Cold war era against the Soviet Union, and was an integral player in the CENTO and SEATO alliances.

Despite the instability of the relationship, both the countries are back to good relations and are allies against terrorism. Today the United States engages in extensive economic, social, and scientific assistance as well as vital military assistance while Pakistan continues to occupy a position in the United States' interests in Central and South Asia.

On 21 July 2019, Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan met with U.S. President Donald Trump in the White House. Both sides agreed to 'reset' the relationship between the two countries and agreed to the resumption of military aid to Pakistan. President Trump lauded Pakistan's efforts to end the war in Afghanistan due to Pakistan's participation in the Afghan peace process, and Imran Khan stated that there is no military solution for the Afghanistan quagmire and that Pakistan would assist the peace process in any way it could.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan%E2%80%93United_States_relations

Hahaha boy I grew up in Pakistan and have seen firsthand the games they play with each other. The US uses and then discards Pakistan each and every time and Pakistan's elite always try to get as much money from the US as possible and trying to swindle them as well. The ISI and CIA are the 2 most disgusting intelligence agencies and they both have a weird complicated history with each other.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:
Farsala said:

I am just fighting hyperbole with hyperbole. If you can claim the US has killed millions since 2000, then that means that China has too by correlation.

Oh my freaking goodness you can't. The Iraq war has killed more than a million people alone and the sole cause of that is the US. China has got nothing to do with it and it hasn't done anything as horrendous in the 21st century

Really? It is the source of the virus outbreak, and covered it up. That's far worse than the US overthrowing Saddam.