By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

Jaicee said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Isn't it so that the states can choose themselves which voting system they want to use?

If so, then I fear any changes would just be done in some democratic states, but I doubt any republican state would do any changes which could massively hurt themselves in future elections.

You might be thinking of like Canada's provincial system or something. The United States uses a federal system of government. In other words, the state and local systems are largely separate and apart from the national election system. It's possible for individual states to introduce electoral reforms for themselves that don't get applied to national elections. Consider the case of Vermont, for instance. Vermont has introduced electoral reforms that have rendered third parties a bit more viable there, with the result that the Vermont Progressive Party -- a local institution inspired by (though not endorsed by) Bernie Sanders -- has won more parliamentary representation than any other third party in the country. And yet Vermont's state-level parliamentary elections are just that: local elections. Their system has no bearing on the national system. It affects only Vermont, and only in their state and local-level elections at that. Hence why there is no national analogy to Vermont's Progressive Party that has representation in the U.S. House of Representatives or Senate.

(The Vermont Progressives, it may be worth adding, are also not exactly a serious threat to the Vermont Democrats, as shown by the fact that the latter regularly win some two-thirds of the seats in the state's parliament.)

There's also the state of Nebraska where candidates aren't allowed to run on a party affiliation. In other words, at the state level, Nebraska has no Republican or Democratic officials. Formally anyway. But in national elections, Nebraska regularly chooses Republicans to represent them in the U.S. Senate and likewise votes to elect Republicans president. Here again, two separate systems: state and national. The one does not directly affect the other.

Conversely, we've had to have a national Voting Rights Act in order to prevent many states from systematically disenfranchising voters of color for being voters of color, and said policy has been significantly weakened by a 2013 verdict of the U.S. Supreme Court. That is an issue in this election.

Thanks for the explanation. I was a bit thrown off by Maine and Nebraska not having winner takes all, so I thought states could decide themselves what electoral system they want to have in place.



Around the Network
Bofferbrauer2 said:
Jaicee said:

You might be thinking of like Canada's provincial system or something. The United States uses a federal system of government. In other words, the state and local systems are largely separate and apart from the national election system. It's possible for individual states to introduce electoral reforms for themselves that don't get applied to national elections. Consider the case of Vermont, for instance. Vermont has introduced electoral reforms that have rendered third parties a bit more viable there, with the result that the Vermont Progressive Party -- a local institution inspired by (though not endorsed by) Bernie Sanders -- has won more parliamentary representation than any other third party in the country. And yet Vermont's state-level parliamentary elections are just that: local elections. Their system has no bearing on the national system. It affects only Vermont, and only in their state and local-level elections at that. Hence why there is no national analogy to Vermont's Progressive Party that has representation in the U.S. House of Representatives or Senate.

(The Vermont Progressives, it may be worth adding, are also not exactly a serious threat to the Vermont Democrats, as shown by the fact that the latter regularly win some two-thirds of the seats in the state's parliament.)

There's also the state of Nebraska where candidates aren't allowed to run on a party affiliation. In other words, at the state level, Nebraska has no Republican or Democratic officials. Formally anyway. But in national elections, Nebraska regularly chooses Republicans to represent them in the U.S. Senate and likewise votes to elect Republicans president. Here again, two separate systems: state and national. The one does not directly affect the other.

Conversely, we've had to have a national Voting Rights Act in order to prevent many states from systematically disenfranchising voters of color for being voters of color, and said policy has been significantly weakened by a 2013 verdict of the U.S. Supreme Court. That is an issue in this election.

Thanks for the explanation. I was a bit thrown off by Maine and Nebraska not having winner takes all, so I thought states could decide themselves what electoral system they want to have in place.

You are correct.  The number of electoral votes each state get is determine at the federal level base on the census every 10 years and when the election will be is determine at federal level but how each state allocate there electoral votes is determine by each state by the State Legislatures.  



Jaicee said:
Moren said:
https://youtu.be/7KHtCb6SdCw
Warren has a very effective speech on childcare, for those who think this is only a "lesser of two evils" without really understanding what Democrats stand for.

https://youtu.be/GlCWL3Hw6hA
Gabby Giffords is a champion of gun control, and I'm looking forward to having her husband in the Senate.

https://twitter.com/DemConvention/status/1296265694070308870?s=09
The last thing I want is hearing complaints about Hillary, but she reminds us about the importance of voting.

https://youtu.be/YIfwrKHkYRA
And Obama. His speech speaks for itself.

Eeh, I thought these were more forgettable than Michelle Obama's. Out of the above, somebody might remember Barack Obama's speech in two more weeks, particularly being as he was our last president and remains extremely popular among Democrats, but the rest will likely be forgotten by nearly everyone. Each had its standout moments (especially Barack Obama's), but none sustained my sincere attention from beginning to end like Michelle Obama's speech.

The closest thing to a runner-up to Michelle Obama's speech in my opinion was this clip from the first night where a woman relays having to bury her father because he, a strong supporter of the president, had taken Dr. Trump's advice on the coronavirus to heart. She says, among other things, that her father felt betrayed by the president in his final hours and that she plans to vote for Joe Biden in his place. How does one refute that argument? What can anyone say? I've seen people on the internet try and the efforts are pretty pathetic. Most attempts I've seen include the term "communism", for example, which smacks of real desperation.

I enjoyed them nonetheless, but I agree. Michelle's speech had a very strong emotional appeal and hit all the right notes.



I didn't particularly hate Bloomberg during the campaign, but man, having him speak right there and then just felt completely off. More so after the pretty cute video of the all-star team over a Zoom call. A lot of fresh and interesting voices right before Bloomberg, what a blunder.

Biden's speech was brief but beautiful. I think the convention was effective in showing him as someone decent and compassionate who can heal the nation, and as a bridge to a better future.



Next week: Nick Sandmann, the McCloskeys, Andrew Pollack, in what I can only assume is a gathering of the worst people in the planet.

Last edited by Moren - on 21 August 2020

Around the Network
Moren said:
Next week: Nick Sandmann, the McCloskeys, Andrew Pollack, in what I can only assume is a gathering of the worst people on the planet.

I see the tolerant left is going strong.



KLXVER said:
Moren said:
Next week: Nick Sandmann, the McCloskeys, Andrew Pollack, in what I can only assume is a gathering of the worst people on the planet.

I see the tolerant left is going strong.

Well, there you are wrong. As Moren has shown in the thread about the primaries, he clearly isn't progressive left, more like a moderate or so. What would you label yourself with, Moren? But apparently for some people everyone less radical than Ted 'bomb the desert until it glows' Cruz apparently is a communist or so.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Mnementh said:
KLXVER said:

I see the tolerant left is going strong.

Well, there you are wrong. As Moren has shown in the thread about the primaries, he clearly isn't progressive left, more like a moderate or so. What would you label yourself with, Moren? But apparently for some people everyone less radical than Ted 'bomb the desert until it glows' Cruz apparently is a communist or so.

No, they are not. Just like people defending their home against a violent mob or a guy getting harassed for wearing a MAGA hat are not scum of the earth.  I just dont understand where that kind of thinking is coming from. So excuse me for getting confused.

Last edited by KLXVER - on 21 August 2020

KLXVER said:
Mnementh said:

Well, there you are wrong. As Moren has shown in the thread about the primaries, he clearly isn't progressive left, more like a moderate or so. What would you label yourself with, Moren? But apparently for some people everyone less radical than Ted 'bomb the desert until it glows' Cruz apparently is a communist or so.

No, they are not. Just like people defending their home against a violent mob are not scum of the earth. I just dont understand where that kind of thinking is coming from. So excuse me for getting confused.

I only point out, that he isn't on the left. Actually you both act also pretty similar. Moren names Sandmann, the McCloskys, Andrew Pollack as the more extremist examples and equates them with Republican party generally. You pick violent looters and equate them with the Democratic party. Both of you are so predictable, boring and actually the same. Because politically you are not too far away, maybe you are even closer than Moren is to the progressive left. But both of you are also so caught up in painting the other side as the devil incarnate. That is boring and exhausting, as it actually doesn't do shit to improve anyones lifes.

You both should learn, that 'the enemy' are people too, and they also want the best for themselfes and their families and friends. They only disagree on how to get there. Trump wasn't elected only by a bunch of billionaires, and Hillary Clinton not only by a group of Washington insiders. Both had a lot of 'normal' people voting for them. Because said normal people thought of each their choice, that they would be best to help bring about improvements to their lives.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Mnementh said:
KLXVER said:

No, they are not. Just like people defending their home against a violent mob are not scum of the earth. I just dont understand where that kind of thinking is coming from. So excuse me for getting confused.

I only point out, that he isn't on the left. Actually you both act also pretty similar. Moren names Sandmann, the McCloskys, Andrew Pollack as the more extremist examples and equates them with Republican party generally. You pick violent looters and equate them with the Democratic party. Both of you are so predictable, boring and actually the same. Because politically you are not too far away, maybe you are even closer than Moren is to the progressive left. But both of you are also so caught up in painting the other side as the devil incarnate. That is boring and exhausting, as it actually doesn't do shit to improve anyones lifes.

You both should learn, that 'the enemy' are people too, and they also want the best for themselfes and their families and friends. They only disagree on how to get there. Trump wasn't elected only by a bunch of billionaires, and Hillary Clinton not only by a group of Washington insiders. Both had a lot of 'normal' people voting for them. Because said normal people thought of each their choice, that they would be best to help bring about improvements to their lives.

To be fair, if you agree that those that Moren names are the most extremist examples of the Republican party then the difference is the Republican part is inviting all of them to speak at a national convention. The DNC didn't invite looters from the protests to celebrate their shittiness. Seems more reasonable then to call out the GOP for the characters they decide to put on a pedestal on a national stage. 



...