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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

JWeinCom said:
This is absolutely fucking amazing...In their lawsuit in Michigan, the Trump Campaign cited an affidavit from an alleged cybersecurity expert showing that in certain counties of Michigan had more voters than residents. The list is on page 3 of the affidavit.https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.283580/gov.uscourts.gand.283580.7.1_2.pdfSome of those precincts include Houston, Monticello, and Benville.The problem? There is no Houston Township, Benville Township, or Monticello Township in Michigan.It seems the expert that the Trump campaign relied on accidentally confused Minnesota with Michigan. And, to be fair to the gentleman, I have made that mistake several times when discussing polling in this election. They both start with MI afterall! It's an easy mistake to make...But, I'm a rando on the internet. It's ok for me to make mistakes. It's a bit less ok for someone trying to overturn the results of a national election to make such an error. That's the level of competence on this elite legal team XD. https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/11/20/trump-ally-confuses-michigan-and-minnesota-in-affidavit-claiming-voter-fraud/?sh=39dc9aa5135e

Further, the areas that supposedly had more votes than voters were largely in the red areas of the state so the Trump team may accidentally be arguing that their side is the side which is committing fraud.

As far as what actually happened, in Minnesota you can register to vote when you go in to vote, so it is likely that this overage just came from people registering the day of. As these counties are generally real small, this may cause large discrepancies between the registered voter rolls and the number of votes cast. For example, Benville Township (the first listed precinct) only has 85 people in it, so it shouldn't be hard to imagine a big swing caused by same day registration.

EDIT: I also have no idea where he is getting his data from. He says he is using prelim data from the state, but from the publicly available data, he is just wrong. He says Benville had 350% turnout, however according to the state, there were 63 people registered on the morning of election day and 8 additional people registered throughout the day. There were then a total of 63 votes cast. Worth noting, only 14 of those votes were for Biden.

Another little hitch in this theory is that according to the state, Benville Twp didn't actually use any voting equipment (which means no Dominion was used, which means there goes the whole theory).

https://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/Results/CountyPrecinctStatisticsStatewide/Index?ersElectionId=136&countyid=4&countyname=Beltrami

Last edited by sundin13 - on 20 November 2020

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sundin13 said:
JWeinCom said:
This is absolutely fucking amazing...In their lawsuit in Michigan, the Trump Campaign cited an affidavit from an alleged cybersecurity expert showing that in certain counties of Michigan had more voters than residents. The list is on page 3 of the affidavit.https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.283580/gov.uscourts.gand.283580.7.1_2.pdfSome of those precincts include Houston, Monticello, and Benville.The problem? There is no Houston Township, Benville Township, or Monticello Township in Michigan.It seems the expert that the Trump campaign relied on accidentally confused Minnesota with Michigan. And, to be fair to the gentleman, I have made that mistake several times when discussing polling in this election. They both start with MI afterall! It's an easy mistake to make...But, I'm a rando on the internet. It's ok for me to make mistakes. It's a bit less ok for someone trying to overturn the results of a national election to make such an error. That's the level of competence on this elite legal team XD. https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/11/20/trump-ally-confuses-michigan-and-minnesota-in-affidavit-claiming-voter-fraud/?sh=39dc9aa5135e

Further, the areas that supposedly had more votes than voters were largely in the red areas of the state so the Trump team may accidentally be arguing that their side is the side which is committing fraud.

As far as what actually happened, in Minnesota you can register to vote when you go in to vote, so it is likely that this overage just came from people registering the day of. As these counties are generally real small, this may cause large discrepancies between the registered voter rolls and the number of votes cast. For example, Benville Township (the first listed precinct) only has 85 people in it, so it shouldn't be hard to imagine a big swing caused by same day registration.

EDIT: I also have no idea where he is getting his data from. He says he is using prelim data from the state, but from the publicly available data, he is just wrong. He says Benville had 350% turnout, however according to the state, there were 63 people registered on the morning of election day and 8 additional people registered throughout the day. There were then a total of 63 votes cast. Worth noting, only 14 of those votes were for Biden.

Another little hitch in this theory is that according to the state, Benville Twp didn't actually use any voting equipment (which means no Dominion was used, which means there goes the whole theory).

https://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/Results/CountyPrecinctStatisticsStatewide/Index?ersElectionId=136&countyid=4&countyname=Beltrami

Makes you wonder what kind of evidence they decided not to present. 

Another expert discusses the irregularities in Mercer County Georgia... The problem is Mercer County Georgia does not exist.

https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2020/11/33-16.pdf

Of course, the facts are irrelevant because the whole point of this is for Trump to get his cult members to insist that there is some sort of doubt about the election results. Because some people mistake assertions with evidence. 

Still, I'm amazed lawyers are willing to put their names to these cases (although to be fair, many are not). This can be ground for sanctions and can possibly and hopefully get them disbarred. 

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 21 November 2020

JWeinCom said:

This is absolutely fucking amazing...

In their lawsuit in Michigan, the Trump Campaign cited an affidavit from an alleged cybersecurity expert showing that in certain counties of Michigan had more voters than residents. The list is on page 3 of the affidavit.https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.283580/gov.uscourts.gand.283580.7.1_2.pdf

Some of those precincts include Houston, Monticello, and Benville. The problem? There is no Houston Township, Benville Township, or Monticello Township in Michigan.

It seems the expert that the Trump campaign relied on accidentally confused Minnesota with Michigan. And, to be fair to the gentleman, I have made that mistake several times when discussing polling in this election. They both start with MI afterall! It's an easy mistake to make...But, I'm a rando on the internet. It's ok for me to make mistakes. It's a bit less ok for someone trying to overturn the results of a national election to make such an error. That's the level of competence on this elite legal team XD.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/11/20/trump-ally-confuses-michigan-and-minnesota-in-affidavit-claiming-voter-fraud/?sh=39dc9aa5135e

What in the orange hell?



Lube Me Up

If you had asked me 4 years ago about removing the Electoral College, I would've said, "Ehhhh, I don't know about that."

If you ask me now: "Yeah, get rid of it. It's got to go."



Hardware Comparison Threads:

PlayStation 4/Xbox One/Nintendo Switch: 2019 vs. 2020
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Hiku said:
Machiavellian said:
rapsuperstar31 said:

Even if Trump pardons himself he will be fighting litigation aimed at himself for years to come.  He will spend time at Rykers Island...and meet a very friendly general population. 

I highly doubt that President Trump will see any prison time.  If anything he will be sued to death on a number of things but Prison, naw.  Even if he gets hit with some of those tax fraud cases in NY, he probably would be slapped with large fines.

Individual 1 (Trump) was named a co-conspirator for a crime that his ex-lawyer was sentenced to prison for.
There are over 13 counts of obstruction of justice from Muller's report, etc.
Here's some more from yesterday:
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/new-york-state-is-criminally-targeting-donald-trump-over-payments-to-ivanka-trump/34238/

Trump is in deep legal jeopardy from many angles. And the only thing preventing him from getting prosecuted is his position as President.
What this may be about is that Trump is trying to bide his time in order to cut himself a Nixon-type deal and 'leave office peacefully'.

But the problem for him is that he has nothing to trade, and all bluffs keep getting called.

The reason he will not see any time is because he was president.  Its more an image thing then anything else.  He will get a plea bargain deal if they have enough for a conviction and trust you me it will never reach court if they have a lock.  Dems are already talking about they are looking to let things slide because Biden has won the Presidency.  The US doesn't want to cause any more divide if possible and while Dems and liberals would love to see him serve time, it would only tarnish the image of the US more.  They would be more than happy if he just go away which is what they want more than anything else.



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Machiavellian said:

The reason he will not see any time is because he was president.  Its more an image thing then anything else.  He will get a plea bargain deal if they have enough for a conviction and trust you me it will never reach court if they have a lock.  Dems are already talking about they are looking to let things slide because Biden has won the Presidency.  The US doesn't want to cause any more divide if possible and while Dems and liberals would love to see him serve time, it would only tarnish the image of the US more.  They would be more than happy if he just go away which is what they want more than anything else.

I think the Dems at the federal level are questioning whether investigations should continue due to the taboo of imprisoning your political rivals and to encourage a peaceful transition of power. Basically, the Biden administration doesn't really want to have their hands in this whole mess because thats pretty bad optics. However, I have seen no indication that the administration would attempt to halt any investigations that they are not directly responsible for. This is relevant because Trump's greatest potential legal jeopardy is likely to come out of New York, not out of the Federal government. As such, they will likely continue to push forward assuming they have a chargeable offense. 



Machiavellian said:
Hiku said:
Machiavellian said:
rapsuperstar31 said:

Even if Trump pardons himself he will be fighting litigation aimed at himself for years to come.  He will spend time at Rykers Island...and meet a very friendly general population. 

I highly doubt that President Trump will see any prison time.  If anything he will be sued to death on a number of things but Prison, naw.  Even if he gets hit with some of those tax fraud cases in NY, he probably would be slapped with large fines.

Individual 1 (Trump) was named a co-conspirator for a crime that his ex-lawyer was sentenced to prison for.
There are over 13 counts of obstruction of justice from Muller's report, etc.
Here's some more from yesterday:
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/new-york-state-is-criminally-targeting-donald-trump-over-payments-to-ivanka-trump/34238/

Trump is in deep legal jeopardy from many angles. And the only thing preventing him from getting prosecuted is his position as President.
What this may be about is that Trump is trying to bide his time in order to cut himself a Nixon-type deal and 'leave office peacefully'.

But the problem for him is that he has nothing to trade, and all bluffs keep getting called.

The reason he will not see any time is because he was president.  Its more an image thing then anything else.  He will get a plea bargain deal if they have enough for a conviction and trust you me it will never reach court if they have a lock.  Dems are already talking about they are looking to let things slide because Biden has won the Presidency.  The US doesn't want to cause any more divide if possible and while Dems and liberals would love to see him serve time, it would only tarnish the image of the US more.  They would be more than happy if he just go away which is what they want more than anything else.

I think it will have more to do with the fact that as president he was briefed about a lot of secret information.  And knowing trump once he has nowhere to go, he will probably threaten to be a blabber mouth; not that he hasn't already been one but I'm sure there's some things even he knew he should never say out loud and didn't.



Lube Me Up

LMU Uncle Alfred said:
Machiavellian said:
Hiku said:
Machiavellian said:
rapsuperstar31 said:

Even if Trump pardons himself he will be fighting litigation aimed at himself for years to come.  He will spend time at Rykers Island...and meet a very friendly general population. 

I highly doubt that President Trump will see any prison time.  If anything he will be sued to death on a number of things but Prison, naw.  Even if he gets hit with some of those tax fraud cases in NY, he probably would be slapped with large fines.

Individual 1 (Trump) was named a co-conspirator for a crime that his ex-lawyer was sentenced to prison for.
There are over 13 counts of obstruction of justice from Muller's report, etc.
Here's some more from yesterday:
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/new-york-state-is-criminally-targeting-donald-trump-over-payments-to-ivanka-trump/34238/

Trump is in deep legal jeopardy from many angles. And the only thing preventing him from getting prosecuted is his position as President.
What this may be about is that Trump is trying to bide his time in order to cut himself a Nixon-type deal and 'leave office peacefully'.

But the problem for him is that he has nothing to trade, and all bluffs keep getting called.

The reason he will not see any time is because he was president.  Its more an image thing then anything else.  He will get a plea bargain deal if they have enough for a conviction and trust you me it will never reach court if they have a lock.  Dems are already talking about they are looking to let things slide because Biden has won the Presidency.  The US doesn't want to cause any more divide if possible and while Dems and liberals would love to see him serve time, it would only tarnish the image of the US more.  They would be more than happy if he just go away which is what they want more than anything else.

I think it will have more to do with the fact that as president he was briefed about a lot of secret information.  And knowing trump once he has nowhere to go, he will probably threaten to be a blabber mouth; not that he hasn't already been one but I'm sure there's some things even he knew he should never say out loud and didn't.

Apart from the clear moral mandate to treat all people the exact same under law regardless of their power and influence, putin(g) Trump in prison will also help contain Trump from releasing state secrets, he will be watched around the clock   



Machiavellian said:
Hiku said:

Individual 1 (Trump) was named a co-conspirator for a crime that his ex-lawyer was sentenced to prison for.
There are over 13 counts of obstruction of justice from Muller's report, etc.
Here's some more from yesterday:
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/new-york-state-is-criminally-targeting-donald-trump-over-payments-to-ivanka-trump/34238/

Trump is in deep legal jeopardy from many angles. And the only thing preventing him from getting prosecuted is his position as President.
What this may be about is that Trump is trying to bide his time in order to cut himself a Nixon-type deal and 'leave office peacefully'.

But the problem for him is that he has nothing to trade, and all bluffs keep getting called.

The reason he will not see any time is because he was president.  Its more an image thing then anything else.  He will get a plea bargain deal if they have enough for a conviction and trust you me it will never reach court if they have a lock.  Dems are already talking about they are looking to let things slide because Biden has won the Presidency.  The US doesn't want to cause any more divide if possible and while Dems and liberals would love to see him serve time, it would only tarnish the image of the US more.  They would be more than happy if he just go away which is what they want more than anything else.

At this point... the people who are going to claim a democratic conspiracy against Trump are already going to do so whether he is convicted of a crime, or not. From a strictly practical point of view, I don't think letting things slide will change their minds, so you might as well just have a trial, and let what happens happens. Let them get more extreme, and hopefully fracture the GOP. Let the "moderate" side figure out a way to calm the crazies, or let the party die.

I believe that this is part of the reason why Trump has been fighting the election results so far. It's not just because he's a whiny little shit, it's also because he wants a chip to exchange for immunity later on. He'll go willingly in exchange for immunity. So far, his bluff has been called, and should continue to be called. 

Interesting question... if Trump goes to prison does he still get secret service protection for life? Cause that would suck. Other secret service agents get to live on W's beautiful ranch, or Bill Clinton's mansion, and these guys would have to stay in a prison. 

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 21 November 2020

A concept I have difficulty wrapping my head around is having to register to vote. Why the fuck isn't everyone automatically registered? I've never had to do that in Canada.



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