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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How Much CAN Nintendo Charge for Switch Pro

 

The Switch Pro Will Cost:

299 20 33.90%
 
349 18 30.51%
 
399 20 33.90%
 
Other 1 1.69%
 
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Total:59
siebensus4 said:

Actually I don't expect a Switch Pro. I think we will we see a Switch successor in March 2022. That would be 5 years after the launch of Switch, what would be a typical Nintendo console life cycle. It would be about a year after the launch of PS5, so still in time to enter next gen.

Very unlikely.

The only Nintendo handhelds with less than 6 years between their launch and successor are the Game Boy Color (2 years and a couple of months after its launch the GBA came out) and the GBA (about 3.5 years later the DS came out).

The only time the 5 year cycle has happened, at least worldwide, is the N64 to GCN, and then GCN to Wii. 

Averaging Nintendo's handhelds and home consoles and including the Switch, the average lifespan from launch to successor seems to be about 6-6.5 years (didn't plug the numbers, but seems about right).

I'm not saying a Switch Pro is a guarantee. To give the Switch a big boost would cost a ton of money and be difficult due to the system's hybrid nature. A beefed up Switch Pro would probably not even hit base Xbox One performance unfortunately. 

Is the Switch being hurt right now for being underpowered? A little. But I don't think it will feel that hurt until the PS5 and Xbox Scarlett are out. The Switch launched during the mid-life of the XBONE and PS4. It's a new way to play, and a new piece of hardware. It's seeking to unite handheld and home console Nintendo games and audiences.

I just think the Pro is pretty necessary to have the Switch ride things out until it gets a successor. Holiday 2020 (over 5.5 years) is the absolute soonest I see it happening. It will more than likely be March 2023 or November 2023. 



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 151 million (was 73, then 96, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million)

PS5: 115 million (was 105 million) Xbox Series S/X: 57 million (was 60 million, then 67 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

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By the time the Pro comes out, if it does, then I suspect the regular switch will already be slashed to $199-$229, and the lite will be $150, so I think the pro will be $299. This way, Nintendo can introduce a $399 Switch 2.0 that is truly more powerful without taking a loss.

Wii was barely a jump over GameCube. Then Wii U was a massive jump over Wii, and Switch is barely a jump over Wii U. If history repeats itself the next jump will be massive in power.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

I'm willing to pay € 400 if the Pro is really significantly more powerful than the first Switch. And for that I demand:

- A 1080p Screen

- A slightly bigger screen than the original Switch's

- A significant boost in processing power, I'd say at the very least 1.8 Tflops which is how powerful the first PS4 was back in 2013

- A better architecture allowing for the system to heat less and last longer in portable mode (At least as much as the new Switch releasing in August 2019)

- At least 128 GB of internal memory cause 32 GB was laughable in my opinion and honestly 128 GB is not exactly ground breaking but I'd settle for that

- The joy con drift issue MUST be fixed

So I don't think I'll be buying the Pro cause I don't think Nintendo will address all these issues and make a Pro that is worthy of the name, but on the off-chance that I'm wrong, I will then get a Pro and I don't mind paying a premium price for a truly better system.

More like can't address.

1.8T Flops is out of order for current technology levels. Even the Qualcomm Snapdragon 8cn, which is strictly intended for laptops and convertible tablets, doesn't even reach half as much power. You would need an RX Vega 11 to reach 1.8 TFlops

This chip can reach 1.8 TFlops. Look at it's TDP: it's rated as 35-54W, way outside the bounds of a handheld. It could be used in a gaming laptop, but even an ultrathin wouldn't have enough cooling for it. So you can also forget about the heating and the battery life extension with that.

As for the other points, the slightly bigger 1080p screen could be done. I don't see the point since few games will make use of it. But if movies would come to the Switch, then I would definitely agree on this. The 128GB internal memory is something I'm awaiting too. I was actually expecting a model to come out with that amount of storage while the base model we have now would have been dropped by $50 in price - but that was before the reveal of the Lite and new battery model.

As for the Joycon drift, I'm sure that the new models will get that issue fixed. Free repairs are also expensive for Nintendo, after all.

Flops is irrelevant.
You don't need 1.8 Teraflops.

The Ryzen V1807B that you linked to is not AMD's most efficient APU anyway... The Ryzen 7 3700U is only 15w TDP with a 2.3Ghz 4 Core/8 thread CPU, 1.4Ghz, 11 CU GPU...

Drop the GPU to 1Ghz, drop the CPU to 1.6Ghz and you could probably go under 10w with the right binning.

But AMD's APU's aren't a good fit for a handheld in my opinion.

As for the 1080P screen, just because a game doesn't render at native resolution doesn't mean games won't make use of it, HUD elements and text can still be at native resolution and upscaling is also a thing.




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

More like can't address.

1.8T Flops is out of order for current technology levels. Even the Qualcomm Snapdragon 8cn, which is strictly intended for laptops and convertible tablets, doesn't even reach half as much power. You would need an RX Vega 11 to reach 1.8 TFlops

This chip can reach 1.8 TFlops. Look at it's TDP: it's rated as 35-54W, way outside the bounds of a handheld. It could be used in a gaming laptop, but even an ultrathin wouldn't have enough cooling for it. So you can also forget about the heating and the battery life extension with that.

As for the other points, the slightly bigger 1080p screen could be done. I don't see the point since few games will make use of it. But if movies would come to the Switch, then I would definitely agree on this. The 128GB internal memory is something I'm awaiting too. I was actually expecting a model to come out with that amount of storage while the base model we have now would have been dropped by $50 in price - but that was before the reveal of the Lite and new battery model.

As for the Joycon drift, I'm sure that the new models will get that issue fixed. Free repairs are also expensive for Nintendo, after all.

Flops is irrelevant.
You don't need 1.8 Teraflops.

The Ryzen V1807B that you linked to is not AMD's most efficient APU anyway... The Ryzen 7 3700U is only 15w TDP with a 2.3Ghz 4 Core/8 thread CPU, 1.4Ghz, 11 CU GPU...

Drop the GPU to 1Ghz, drop the CPU to 1.6Ghz and you could probably go under 10w with the right binning.

But AMD's APU's aren't a good fit for a handheld in my opinion.

As for the 1080P screen, just because a game doesn't render at native resolution doesn't mean games won't make use of it, HUD elements and text can still be at native resolution and upscaling is also a thing.


I know Flops are irrelevant, hence why I said Navi with similar performance, not similar flops. But Since both the PS4 and Vega are GCN, comparing their performance by TFlops was a legit way to get them to the same level more or less.

Dropping the clock speeds doesn't cut it. I'll have to check if I can find a test in English, but the 3700 U can't hold the GPU speed at all and drops to about 800 Mhz under full load (CPU at it's base clock of 2.3Ghz). At that point, it can reach at best 2/3rd of the PS4's performance. The 35W 3750H also can't hold the clock speed, but at least only drops to 1150Mhz under fullload (with same CPU clock).

Oh, and the 3700U only has 10, not 11 CU. The only mobile chip with 11 CU was the 2800H, it's successor, the 3750H, only got 10 CU.

So, like I said, we're not there yet to put a chip with PS4-like performance into a handheld without making it very heavy due to a huge battery to make it last longer than a couple minutes. Navi will be a step forward in that regard, probably reaching PS4 power in a 15W package for real this time. But not enough yet to make it possible at a ~5W package of a handheld. And no, NVidia or any other GPU maker isn't any closer to this yet.

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 29 July 2019

Bofferbrauer2 said:

More like can't address.

1.8T Flops is out of order for current technology levels. Even the Qualcomm Snapdragon 8cn, which is strictly intended for laptops and convertible tablets, doesn't even reach half as much power. You would need an RX Vega 11 to reach 1.8 TFlops

This chip can reach 1.8 TFlops. Look at it's TDP: it's rated as 35-54W, way outside the bounds of a handheld. It could be used in a gaming laptop, but even an ultrathin wouldn't have enough cooling for it. So you can also forget about the heating and the battery life extension with that.

As for the other points, the slightly bigger 1080p screen could be done. I don't see the point since few games will make use of it. But if movies would come to the Switch, then I would definitely agree on this. The 128GB internal memory is something I'm awaiting too. I was actually expecting a model to come out with that amount of storage while the base model we have now would have been dropped by $50 in price - but that was before the reveal of the Lite and new battery model.

As for the Joycon drift, I'm sure that the new models will get that issue fixed. Free repairs are also expensive for Nintendo, after all.

I forgot to add: If the Switch Pro has no portable mode and can only be used docked, not only would I be ok with that but also it would fix the power issues. If always docked, they could boost the processor to reach 1.8TF as battery issues would become irrelevant. And before you answer that this would defeat the purpose and the very name "Switch", I would like to say that since the announcement of the Switch Lite, this point is now irrelevant as that system cannot "switch" either so it would not entirely be illogical to have a Switch Pro that is only for your TV as the Lite is only for portable use.

In fact the more I think about it the more it would make sense to me. One Switch Lite portable ONLY, one Pro that is docked ONLY and one Switch standard (the current one but with better battery coming soon) that can do both portable and docked.

Honestly if Nintendo did this, it would cover all ground and all tastes, this would be in my opinion, PERFECT!



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Bofferbrauer2 said:

I know Flops are irrelevant, hence why I said Navi with similar performance, not similar flops. But Since both the PS4 and Vega are GCN, comparing their performance by TFlops was a legit way to get them to the same level more or less.

Nope. Vega/Graphics Core Next 5 is a more efficient GPU than the Graphics Core Next 1.0 derived Graphics processors in the base Playstation 4 and Xbox One.
Thus making Tflops irrelevant.

Just because they are "Graphics Core Next" doesn't mean they have the same performance per clock, AMD actually did allot of engineering work updating Graphics Core Next over the years.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Dropping the clock speeds doesn't cut it. I'll have to check if I can find a test in English, but the 3700 U can't hold the GPU speed at all and drops to about 800 Mhz under full load (CPU at it's base clock of 2.3Ghz). At that point, it can reach at best 2/3rd of the PS4's performance. The 35W 3750H also can't hold the clock speed, but at least only drops to 1150Mhz under fullload (with same CPU clock).o this yet.

I have a 2700u Ryzen mobile chip in my notebook and done extensive clock/TDP/voltage scaling testing... It's basically the 14nm version of the 12nm 3700u, so not much difference.

You can hold the Graphics Processors Clock if you reduce your Central Processors clock... In games that aren't CPU intensive you can actually see some rather dramatic increases in performance. - For most titles I actually limit my CPU clock to 70% of it's base clock, not allowing it to turbo... Good thing Ryzen has decent IPC.

It's tied to TDP, once you hit your TDP limit on both the CPU and GPU, then the clocks between the two get "leveled out" so to speak.

But the clockspeed of the Graphics Processor isn't what is holding back AMD's APU's. - It's actually memory bandwidth, DDR4 2400mhz on a 128bit memory bus isn't doing anyone any favors in regards to performance, especially once allot of bandwidth hungry alpha effects start getting thrown around.

You don't need the same flops or clockrates or CU's to match the base Playstation 4 in terms of performance... Or even memory bandwidth for that matter, GPU's have come a long way since 2013 on the efficiency front making such comparisons directly useless, even if they are all Graphics Core Next. (Which I would argue Navi falls under Graphics Core Next anyway.)

CrazyGamer2017 said:

And before you answer that this would defeat the purpose and the very name "Switch", I would like to say that since the announcement of the Switch Lite, this point is now irrelevant as that system cannot "switch" either so it would not entirely be illogical to have a Switch Pro that is only for your TV as the Lite is only for portable use.

Well. No. It doesn't make the "Switch" name irrelevant, you can still "Switch" between form factors... The same game runs on all those devices. - Which was always the argument I used when I suggested that Nintendo could release a mobile and fixed-only TV SKU of the Switch... (Which is now coming to fruition with the Switch light.)
Obviously I ended up being correct on my predictions a few years ago that Nintendo would build devices that didn't Switch, much to the chagrin of a few users who said I was fundamentally wrong as it would undermine all of their advertising efforts.

Money talks and building more cost-effective devices that target certain demographics always made perfect sense.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

I know Flops are irrelevant, hence why I said Navi with similar performance, not similar flops. But Since both the PS4 and Vega are GCN, comparing their performance by TFlops was a legit way to get them to the same level more or less.

Nope. Vega/Graphics Core Next 5 is a more efficient GPU than the Graphics Core Next 1.0 derived Graphics processors in the base Playstation 4 and Xbox One.
Thus making Tflops irrelevant.

Just because they are "Graphics Core Next" doesn't mean they have the same performance per clock, AMD actually did allot of engineering work updating Graphics Core Next over the years.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Dropping the clock speeds doesn't cut it. I'll have to check if I can find a test in English, but the 3700 U can't hold the GPU speed at all and drops to about 800 Mhz under full load (CPU at it's base clock of 2.3Ghz). At that point, it can reach at best 2/3rd of the PS4's performance. The 35W 3750H also can't hold the clock speed, but at least only drops to 1150Mhz under fullload (with same CPU clock).o this yet.

I have a 2700u Ryzen mobile chip in my notebook and done extensive clock/TDP/voltage scaling testing... It's basically the 14nm version of the 12nm 3700u, so not much difference.

You can hold the Graphics Processors Clock if you reduce your Central Processors clock... In games that aren't CPU intensive you can actually see some rather dramatic increases in performance. - For most titles I actually limit my CPU clock to 70% of it's base clock, not allowing it to turbo... Good thing Ryzen has decent IPC.

It's tied to TDP, once you hit your TDP limit on both the CPU and GPU, then the clocks between the two get "leveled out" so to speak.

But the clockspeed of the Graphics Processor isn't what is holding back AMD's APU's. - It's actually memory bandwidth, DDR4 2400mhz on a 128bit memory bus isn't doing anyone any favors in regards to performance, especially once allot of bandwidth hungry alpha effects start getting thrown around.

You don't need the same flops or clockrates or CU's to match the base Playstation 4 in terms of performance... Or even memory bandwidth for that matter, GPU's have come a long way since 2013 on the efficiency front making such comparisons directly useless, even if they are all Graphics Core Next. (Which I would argue Navi falls under Graphics Core Next anyway.)

May I ask what Laptop you got? I've been looking for a good one with an APU for quite some time now...

Don't forget that Laptops dissipate lots of heat through the keyboard, which a handheld doesn't have, and are bigger in general. You really need to bring the TDP down to about 5W for a handheld device - and not just for heat, also for battery life reasons. Also, don't forget that you possibly just got a very good sample from the center of the die and your experience doesn't necessarily translate to it being the case for all the chips in the series.

I know Vega is more efficient, but not very much more performant. For instance, the performance difference between GCN3 and GCN4 at same CU and clock speed boils down to just 4%, and that comes entirely from increasing the L2 cache from 512kb to 2MB. The increases from GCN2 to 3 boil down to a change in the Instruction set. All in all, from GCN1 to GCN5, the uptick in performance per clock and CU is below 20% unless you use half precision, and most of it was just getting it's power that it already had to the ground. It just gained lots in efficiency along the way - which AMD then threw away again by clocking their chips so high to at least keep up somewhat with NVidia in the mid-range.

I do agree with you that GCN isn't terribly well suited for gaming. But for work, it seems to be better suited than RDNA. At least the upcoming AMD Arcturus professional cards seem to be based on Vega, not Navi.



Pemalite said:
Well. No. It doesn't make the "Switch" name irrelevant, you can still "Switch" between form factors... The same game runs on all those devices. - Which was always the argument I used when I suggested that Nintendo could release a mobile and fixed-only TV SKU of the Switch... (Which is now coming to fruition with the Switch light.)
Obviously I ended up being correct on my predictions a few years ago that Nintendo would build devices that didn't Switch, much to the chagrin of a few users who said I was fundamentally wrong as it would undermine all of their advertising efforts.

Money talks and building more cost-effective devices that target certain demographics always made perfect sense.

Switch between form factors? I'm sorry I don't know what you mean. My point is the word "Switch" was chosen because with that system you can switch from TV mode to portable mode and that's all that means. So the Lite cannot switch and my point is if the lite cannot switch and is a portable system only why couldn't the future hypothetical Switch Pro be a docked only kind of system that ALSO does not switch?

Knowing that the Switch standard that can do BOTH portable and docked, will continue being in production with an even better battery life.



CrazyGamer2017 said:
Pemalite said:
Well. No. It doesn't make the "Switch" name irrelevant, you can still "Switch" between form factors... The same game runs on all those devices. - Which was always the argument I used when I suggested that Nintendo could release a mobile and fixed-only TV SKU of the Switch... (Which is now coming to fruition with the Switch light.)
Obviously I ended up being correct on my predictions a few years ago that Nintendo would build devices that didn't Switch, much to the chagrin of a few users who said I was fundamentally wrong as it would undermine all of their advertising efforts.

Money talks and building more cost-effective devices that target certain demographics always made perfect sense.

Switch between form factors? I'm sorry I don't know what you mean. My point is the word "Switch" was chosen because with that system you can switch from TV mode to portable mode and that's all that means. So the Lite cannot switch and my point is if the lite cannot switch and is a portable system only why couldn't the future hypothetical Switch Pro be a docked only kind of system that ALSO does not switch?

Knowing that the Switch standard that can do BOTH portable and docked, will continue being in production with an even better battery life.

You can "Switch" between devices. One cart runs on a Hybrid, mobile and fixed device potentially.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

There is a new rumor about Switch Pro posted on Reddit by a quite reliable insider, or so it seems.

Following this rumor, Switch Pro will be a home-only console, with enhanced hardware specs capable of boosting current Switch games up to 4k and 60fps, for games like Breath of the Wild. It says this new product of the Switch family will launch in 2021 at $399 along with the sequel of BOTW, curiously named Zelda: Breath of Darkness. :O

Here is the rumored Switch Pro specs:

- SoC NVIDIA Tegra Xavier (Custom)
- Storage: SSD 64 GB
- Supported Res: 4K/60 fps, 1920x1080
- Audio: PCM 5.1 Stereo and 7.1 Surround
- 2x USB 3.0 ports
- 2x USB Type-C ports
- 2x HDMI ports
- Wi-Fi e Bluetooth 5.1

This "deep throat" also confirms that both Link and Zelda will be playable characters in the sequel.

Last edited by JimmyFantasy - on 04 October 2019