Forums - Gaming Discussion - Dead or Alive 6 has a $93 Season Pass

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Burning Typhoon said:
Machiavellian said:

This is what always confuse me, why do you need those costume packs.  As long as people will pay, then they will release them.  If there is a demand then someone will sell it to you.  Why do gamers believe everything should be for free.  The people that make your entertainment do not work for free.

I work as a developer but not for video games.  In the industry that I work for customers are always looking for us to do work for free.  The problem is that when you work billable hours, you cannot just do stuff for free.  A business has metrics that has to be met by each individual head and if those people are not pulling weight, then they get laid off.  This is why you see a lot of developers and other staff get laid off after completing projects under game development studios.  Game studios cannot support those extra personnel if they are not working and bringing income to the business.

There is a line that is met between a finish game and DLC.  The main game should be finished with a complete roster.  18 Characters look like a complete roster and from what I have seen from the main game, there are a decent list of costume for each character.  If the main game is complete then anything else created is done to keep the game alive but also keep those people who are not working on a new project employed.  

The game is not complete.  The online offers no support for lobbies.  There is no reason to charge 100 dollars.  It is on a server.  You would make more than 5x the amount of sales off of a product that takes up no physical space.  Why charge so much money from each person individually.  It's bad press, and it turns people off from the game.  It does more harm than good.

You're supposed to price your goods to make optimal sales with profits.  100 dollars, for DLC is absolutely doing more harm than good.  It's greed.  

And, yeah.. About street fighter 4... Look at how that turned out.  Look at all those people that bought DoA5. 

i play almost all fighting games.  But this is one that i will be skipping for a looong time.


If the only thing you can complain about is online lobbies not being there then I would consider that a ding more than being incomplete.  Incomplete would be not having a fully fleshed out character set to play and then charging for the rest via DLC for a full price 60 dollar game.

As for DLC, the company can charge whatever they want for, you vote with your dollars if you believe the price is legit.  There must be someone out there purchasing this stuff for that price or they would never charge it.  I know, I would never purchase it but then again, I barely if ever purchase DLC anyway.  DLC should never be a requirement to enjoy the main game and should always be as it is just more content.  If the DLC is required for continuing or enjoying a game, I do not purchase those products.

Not sure how SF 4 turned out but I did not purchase it until it was complete in my eyes.  I actually enjoyed the seasons for Killer Instinct 



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d21lewis said:
Machiavellian said:

Maybe its just me.  I hardly ever look at DLC because I never buy it.  I purchase pretty much all fighting games because its my first love as far as games go but DLC has never been a thing I cared about.  My first and only concern is the main game is complete.  If that is the case it gets my money.  Any other extra stuff I consider fluff and not worth my time unless its priced right.

My gripe is that I always see gamers complain about developer supporting their game and actually charging for extra content believing it should be free.  The content should not be free because the work creating it isn't free.  Price is another thing and each developer has to pick the right sweet spot for sales.  If the price is too high then the community as a whole is at fault for supporting it.  

Truth be told, I kinda love DLC--to a point. Off the top of my head, I've purchased Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Red Dead 2, and Spider-Man deluxe editions without even knowing what the DLCs were. Sometimes they were great. Other times, a little underwhelming. Up to $20 or so above retail, I'm cool. I even bought all of Valkyria Chronicles 2's dlc because the game was so good and I have the season pass for Smash Ultimate despite never really liking the series.

But when it becomes too excessive, it turns me off. Usually it's a game like Onechambara or Shinran Kagura that abuses my love for titties.

-- I also have a sore spot for DLC that is actually already part of the game but the developer locks it away and makes us pay to unlock it. Just doesn't seem honest to me.

The locked away DLC that is on the disk I have to say is definitely shady.  If it can be released on the Disk, then it can be added to the main game.  Thats the publisher/Developer pulling a fast one and definitely garbage.



To quote Khabib Nurmagomedov: "This is number one bullshit".

I understand that many games are not profitable even at the $60 price tag, but there's ways to make DLC enticing and desirable, price point and amount of content being the most important factors. Look at Fast Racing Neo, for only $5 you can get 8 new tracks, 10 new vehicles, and 18 music tracks. That's DLC done RIGHT, even more impressive, the developers are a small team delivering a high quality and polished game. These large studios are just greedy and ready to milk their fan bases (ahem Tales Of DLC).



ThatDreamcastTho said:
SuperRetroTurbo said:

Is that a definite? Usually they introduce the extra fighters within the games unlockables.

Nyotengu and Phase 5 were preorder bonuses, so they might be unlockable. But the King of Fighters characters I seriously doubt it.

That's gonna be a major blow to my brand loyalty...if it's true.



Insert Coin. Press START. You Died. Continue?

Machiavellian said:

The locked away DLC that is on the disk I have to say is definitely shady.  If it can be released on the Disk, then it can be added to the main game.  Thats the publisher/Developer pulling a fast one and definitely garbage.

You mean to say disc.  But it's not a shady practice at all.  If a company decides you are going to pay for a particular DLC, you're going to pay for it.  Since that much is known about the content, then the question becomes how to get it to the player.  If they do not have the DLC files locally, they cannot see the DLC.  If I had DLC costumes, I want the person I'm playing against to also see me using it, and not the default.  Since everyone then needs the files, that means they have to be installed on the Hard Disk or be printed directly on the bluray disc.

Most people never complain about having to download DLC to their hard drive, yet that exact same data that is needed becomes a problem when it's on the disc?  That means less data is on the server, less data needs to be downloaded, and it can be made cheaper since it's not taking up as much space on the server.  It means when you're done playing the game, you don't have the entire DLC on your HDD.

If you are not licensed to use the content, you're not licensed to use it.  Regardless of rather or not it's on the disc, that's not how the law works.  Otherwise everyone would buy the physical disc game to get the dlc for free, which wouldn't be fair to anyone who downloaded the game.  Same exact data, just stored in a different spot.

As an end user, think about it-- it makes no difference where it's stored.

Machiavellian said:

If the only thing you can complain about is online lobbies not being there then I would consider that a ding more than being incomplete.  Incomplete would be not having a fully fleshed out character set to play and then charging for the rest via DLC for a full price 60 dollar game.

As for DLC, the company can charge whatever they want for, you vote with your dollars if you believe the price is legit.  There must be someone out there purchasing this stuff for that price or they would never charge it.  I know, I would never purchase it but then again, I barely if ever purchase DLC anyway.  DLC should never be a requirement to enjoy the main game and should always be as it is just more content.  If the DLC is required for continuing or enjoying a game, I do not purchase those products.

Not sure how SF 4 turned out but I did not purchase it until it was complete in my eyes.  I actually enjoyed the seasons for Killer Instinct 

That's not the only thing I can complain about, it's the only thing I chose to mention.  The game has game breaking bugs.  You can fight outside of stage boundaries.  There is no excuse for that.  Bugs happen, but if the game wasn't rushed, that would have been discovered.  Like Yoshimitsu's glitch in Soul Calibur VI.

And yes, the company can charge whatever they want for the DLC. Just like I can call them out for bad consumer business practices, charging more for 60 costumes and 2 characters, than the entire game is worth.  If other companies try this, it's bad.  It's a season pass, mind you.  In 3 months, it's going to be another 93 dollar season pass.

Look at lootboxes, EA, and star wars.  Battlefront 2 is dead.  There will be no battlefront 3.  Yeah, we voted with our wallets.  Now a game is dead.  

So, guys, vote with your wallets.  As if that wasn't what we were going to already do anyway.  Not only am I not buying the DLC, I'm skipping the entire game because of how incompetent this company has been for consumer relations.  And with an acronym like "D.O.A., it can't afford to have something like this happen to it.  This is going to kill the series.  But, at least we voted with our wallets.



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Machiavellian said:

 Why do gamers believe everything should be for free.  The people that make your entertainment do not work for free.

 

OMG! You're saying the exact same bull that I quoted in my first answer. This is hilarious. Especially from a developper. 

Seriously, we buy a game 60 bucks. Anything, I mean ANYTHING, they add after the release should be free. That is a fact. Same as online. Up to anybody to be a sheep but when I see ppl saying that 30 bucks for a season pass is correct, I truly can't blame the ones saying that the community of gamers is the dumbest one in the world.

Now, a complete game, dlc included is around 100$ at least and ppl are happy with it. Even the ones who don't get everything paid by their viewers. Don't anybody say again that life is too expensive these days. And don't insult us by denying that devs think about dlc way before release. Some announce them almost one year before the release, so...

No joke, if your answer was supposed to make us think that a 90 bucks season pass is not the shameless thing ever, think again.



Kanemaru said:
Machiavellian said:

 Why do gamers believe everything should be for free.  The people that make your entertainment do not work for free.

 

OMG! You're saying the exact same bull that I quoted in my first answer. This is hilarious. Especially from a developper. 

Seriously, we buy a game 60 bucks. Anything, I mean ANYTHING, they add after the release should be free. That is a fact. Same as online. Up to anybody to be a sheep but when I see ppl saying that 30 bucks for a season pass is correct, I truly can't blame the ones saying that the community of gamers is the dumbest one in the world.

Now, a complete game, dlc included is around 100$ at least and ppl are happy with it. Even the ones who don't get everything paid by their viewers. Don't anybody say again that life is too expensive these days. And don't insult us by denying that devs think about dlc way before release. Some announce them almost one year before the release, so...

No joke, if your answer was supposed to make us think that a 90 bucks season pass is not the shameless thing ever, think again.

Hell NO!!  From your comment you have no clue what it takes to create software and especially games.  You pay for the main product and that's it.  If the main product is not worth the price for your money then do not purchase it.  You are not entitled to any extra content produced for a product as I stated before because that content wasn't made for free.  Any extra content has a team that has to make it and they make a salary, benefits etc.  The cost per head for developers is not cheap.  If they are not working and producing revenue for the company they are cut, just that simple.  Not every game recoup the cost of development just on main game sales alone.  The fact you can get around purchasing the game new even discounted affects the bottomline.  

It really doesn't matter if devs think about DLC before hand.  Actually its smart business for them to think about all aspect of the development process including what they can do once they finish the main game.  Do you think Devs just start coding for a project out of nowhere.  A complete solution design has to be fleshed out before starting a project.  The companies that do not do this probably are the ones that get into feature creep which can kill a project.  

As for price for the extra content, thats different.  Its the responsibility for the company to price their extra content right so they get the max amount of sales without deterring the customer from purchasing it.  A company can charge whatever they want for their extra content.  I as a consumer has the right to dismiss it or purchase it.  I rarely waste my time complaining and just vote with my wallet.  What I have noticed in the industry most of the early prices are for the person who pays anything when the DLC release.  After a few months the prices are reduced big time.



Burning Typhoon said:
Machiavellian said:

The locked away DLC that is on the disk I have to say is definitely shady.  If it can be released on the Disk, then it can be added to the main game.  Thats the publisher/Developer pulling a fast one and definitely garbage.

You mean to say disc.  But it's not a shady practice at all.  If a company decides you are going to pay for a particular DLC, you're going to pay for it.  Since that much is known about the content, then the question becomes how to get it to the player.  If they do not have the DLC files locally, they cannot see the DLC.  If I had DLC costumes, I want the person I'm playing against to also see me using it, and not the default.  Since everyone then needs the files, that means they have to be installed on the Hard Disk or be printed directly on the bluray disc.

Most people never complain about having to download DLC to their hard drive, yet that exact same data that is needed becomes a problem when it's on the disc?  That means less data is on the server, less data needs to be downloaded, and it can be made cheaper since it's not taking up as much space on the server.  It means when you're done playing the game, you don't have the entire DLC on your HDD.

If you are not licensed to use the content, you're not licensed to use it.  Regardless of rather or not it's on the disc, that's not how the law works.  Otherwise everyone would buy the physical disc game to get the dlc for free, which wouldn't be fair to anyone who downloaded the game.  Same exact data, just stored in a different spot.

As an end user, think about it-- it makes no difference where it's stored.

Machiavellian said:

If the only thing you can complain about is online lobbies not being there then I would consider that a ding more than being incomplete.  Incomplete would be not having a fully fleshed out character set to play and then charging for the rest via DLC for a full price 60 dollar game.

As for DLC, the company can charge whatever they want for, you vote with your dollars if you believe the price is legit.  There must be someone out there purchasing this stuff for that price or they would never charge it.  I know, I would never purchase it but then again, I barely if ever purchase DLC anyway.  DLC should never be a requirement to enjoy the main game and should always be as it is just more content.  If the DLC is required for continuing or enjoying a game, I do not purchase those products.

Not sure how SF 4 turned out but I did not purchase it until it was complete in my eyes.  I actually enjoyed the seasons for Killer Instinct 

That's not the only thing I can complain about, it's the only thing I chose to mention.  The game has game breaking bugs.  You can fight outside of stage boundaries.  There is no excuse for that.  Bugs happen, but if the game wasn't rushed, that would have been discovered.  Like Yoshimitsu's glitch in Soul Calibur VI.

And yes, the company can charge whatever they want for the DLC. Just like I can call them out for bad consumer business practices, charging more for 60 costumes and 2 characters, than the entire game is worth.  If other companies try this, it's bad.  It's a season pass, mind you.  In 3 months, it's going to be another 93 dollar season pass.

Look at lootboxes, EA, and star wars.  Battlefront 2 is dead.  There will be no battlefront 3.  Yeah, we voted with our wallets.  Now a game is dead.  

So, guys, vote with your wallets.  As if that wasn't what we were going to already do anyway.  Not only am I not buying the DLC, I'm skipping the entire game because of how incompetent this company has been for consumer relations.  And with an acronym like "D.O.A., it can't afford to have something like this happen to it.  This is going to kill the series.  But, at least we voted with our wallets.

Its not bad consumer practice to charge whatever you want.  Instead its just bad business to overprice your product.  The thing is, what you feel is overpriced someone else thinks it acceptable.  The key would be if your opinion is shared with enough consumers to make a difference.

As you state Battlefront 2 is a prime example.  Wrong decisions has consequences but I doubt that another installment of the game will not happen because of lootboxes.  If anything the company just goes back and think of another revenue goal to see if that can work.

As for purchasing the game, i will do as I always do.  When I believe the main game is at a point I like, it will get my money.  I really do not care how much they charge for DLC when the game release because I am never in a hurry to purchase any game.  Usually by the time I am ready, everything will be reduced to a price Point  I consider worth my money.



imho, i think they know this series doesnt sell big numbers so might as well get as much from the people who do. buy it



Machiavellian said:
d21lewis said:

I didn't need them. I wanted them. I wanted the "complete experience". When it became too much, I quit. No harm done.

Also, I didn't want anything for free. There was just so much dlc that it began to eclipse the cost of the game. Same with DoA, now. When I bought the first game on PS1, tons of costumes was a selling point. Now, the game seems secondary to the bonus stuff. Sign of the times, I guess. But they have a choice and I have a choice. I choose not to support this at all.

Maybe its just me.  I hardly ever look at DLC because I never buy it.  I purchase pretty much all fighting games because its my first love as far as games go but DLC has never been a thing I cared about.  My first and only concern is the main game is complete.  If that is the case it gets my money.  Any other extra stuff I consider fluff and not worth my time unless its priced right.

My gripe is that I always see gamers complain about developer supporting their game and actually charging for extra content believing it should be free.  The content should not be free because the work creating it isn't free.  Price is another thing and each developer has to pick the right sweet spot for sales.  If the price is too high then the community as a whole is at fault for supporting it.  

The problem is that gamers born pre-2000 know that a lot of the things sold and celebrated as "extras" today are things that were part of the actual games years ago.  Unlockable/hidden characters, alternate costumes, etc.  Those were all in game to be unlocked as a reward for playing.  Today, these things are carved out and sold back to the consumer at additional cost.