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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Among the big Japanese publishers, is Nintendo the least creatively risk-averse?

Bofferbrauer2 on 18 December 2018
Sahib said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Just completed the Nintendo List a bit more (probably still missing some)

On Sony's side, I just knew the 16 first titles, and out of those 5 do not belong to Sony, with one even being a multiplat title.

I bolded those which have been announced, but not yet released. Considering how long some games can take to make (just check the last Guardian, almost 10 years in the making) and the upcoming release of the PS5, I sorted them out because they may not release on PS4 (Concrete Genie and Dreams for instance should, Ghosts of Tsushima, not so sure)

Oh, and in italic, I noted those which are already dead or dying (meaning MMO titles which have been deactivated already or are scheduled to do so soon). I'd be pissed if I bought on of these, to be frank. They are valid entries though, just sad ones.

Half of the titles listed were actually third party titles, many of them small VR or f2p games. So that brings it down to Nintendo levels, which is much more realistic

Clearly you do not understand the concept of IP ownership, and you're inconsistent on top of it. Allow me to explain...

Wonderful 101 is a game developed by Platinum games, but is funded and owned by Nintendo. Hence it is on the list. Similarly games you crossed out citing their devs are indeed developed by a 3rd party developer but are funded and owned by Sony, yes even that multiplatform title you listed.

Proof: https://trademarks.justia.com/864/72/what-remains-of-edith-86472634.html

You can find the trademarks for other games on there as well and see who the IP belongs to, all those IP I listed are owned by Sony similar to most of the games that Nintendo puts out that are made by 3rd party devs be it Yoshi, or Kirby, or Smash Bros. or Pokemon. 

 

Secondly you seemed to have inflated Nintendo's list there by adding some more titles I see, I went ahead and took a closer look at them as I couldn't have left those out if they actually qualified:

Captain Toad -Not a new IP, it's a spin off of a character from the Mario franchise.

Flip Wars- I can't even find this...

Devil's Third- Not owned by Nintendo

NES Remix- Not even gonna look it up, just by the name I can assume this is collection of old games and can't possibly be a new IP.

Sing Party- Ok, So I did miss one...

Tokio Mirage Sessions- I have to question if you know what a New IP even means...


NES Remix isn't a collection of old games, look it up. It reuses some parts of different NES games, but none is playable on it's own, just the challenges of the game

Tokio Mirage Sessions is neither Shin Megami Tensei nor is it Fire Emblem, though it uses some elements of both. Otherwise, Persona wouldn't count as IP either, as it's also a spinoff from SMT - a spinoff in the same light as Captain Toad btw. If Persona counts as an IP (and it DOES), then both TMS #FE and Captain Toad do

Flip Wars is a digital only small party game that came out in summer last year, but got quickly drowned by the flurry of higher profile releases.

Forgot Sushi Striker, btw

 

No need to explain, just couldn't find any information that those IP belonged to Sony, only that they were made by independent studios. As such, since I couldn't find any Sony ownership on them, I crossed them out. Mea culpa on all those that I crossed out wrongly.



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Mnementh on 18 December 2018
VAMatt said:
Jumpin said:

You’re conflating branding with conventional mechanics. They’re two separate things. Also, Nintendo has one of the widest arrays of brand success, criticizing them for not expanding that further is silly.

In addition, saying other Japanese companies don’t do anything like this is blatantly false. Most Japanese companies will highlight their brands across multiple different sorts of games, there are even Final a fantasy fighting and musical rhythm games.

Please provide an example of any IP that comes anywhere close to the whoring level of Mario.  

Spiderman. Basically every three years or so the movie series is rebooted. Also he is in many other movies, is in diverse games and so on.



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Mnementh on 18 December 2018
Spindel said:
ResilientFighter said:
Yeah they lack innovative IPs and only a few new ones surface every decade

Why do you need new IPs when one IP can be used in fighting games, strategy games, plattform games, racing games, soccer games, golf games, tennis games, rpgs, puzzle games etc. 

 

New IPs is not the same as innovation. 

 

Especially if the new IPs do exactly the same as the established ones.



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Mnementh on 18 December 2018
Sahib said:
Nintendo is easily the most risk averse big publisher as far as home consoles market goes. The sheer lack of new IPs by Nintendo is astonishing.

If Nintendo does never new IPs, how come they have a lot of them. Just take a look at Super Smash Bros vs. Playstation All Star Battle Royale. Sony had to deeply scrape the barrel for IPs they could include and still have a much less remarkable roster. I don't even compare to Smash Ultimate, just compare with Smash Brawl, which was at a similar time. Nintendo could whip up easily more remarkable IPs to fill the roster than Sony. So something says to me, that actually Nintendo isn't that bad at creating IPs.



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10 years greatest game event!

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0D0 on 18 December 2018
pokoko said:
JSG87 said:

The one thing you have to hand to Nintendo is their ability to take that specific IP and Make it successful no matter what. Not many publishers can say the same.

Not many publishers can do it because they don't have the dedicated, built-in fanbase and dominant advertising position that comes with being a console manufacturer.  That's not an insignificant difference.  If you give something like ARMS to a third-party publisher, and I mean the exact same game, the attach ratio would drop significantly on Nintendo platforms and it would be buried by the competition on other platforms.

Exactly, besides, Nintendo has far less releases than the competition so games like ARMS that on PS4 would look like indie game sell far better on Nintendo's own platform.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

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0D0 on 18 December 2018
Mnementh said:
Sahib said:
Nintendo is easily the most risk averse big publisher as far as home consoles market goes. The sheer lack of new IPs by Nintendo is astonishing.

If Nintendo does never new IPs, how come they have a lot of them. Just take a look at Super Smash Bros vs. Playstation All Star Battle Royale. Sony had to deeply scrape the barrel for IPs they could include and still have a much less remarkable roster. I don't even compare to Smash Ultimate, just compare with Smash Brawl, which was at a similar time. Nintendo could whip up easily more remarkable IPs to fill the roster than Sony. So something says to me, that actually Nintendo isn't that bad at creating IPs.

But on Smash there are lots of characters from very old IPs that nobody give a damm any more. There are also lots of secondary characters.

Besides smash is cartoon and Nintendo has lots of cartoon characters for it, unlike Sony.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


DonFerrari on 18 December 2018
Bofferbrauer2 said:
Sahib said:

Clearly you do not understand the concept of IP ownership, and you're inconsistent on top of it. Allow me to explain...

Wonderful 101 is a game developed by Platinum games, but is funded and owned by Nintendo. Hence it is on the list. Similarly games you crossed out citing their devs are indeed developed by a 3rd party developer but are funded and owned by Sony, yes even that multiplatform title you listed.

Proof: https://trademarks.justia.com/864/72/what-remains-of-edith-86472634.html

You can find the trademarks for other games on there as well and see who the IP belongs to, all those IP I listed are owned by Sony similar to most of the games that Nintendo puts out that are made by 3rd party devs be it Yoshi, or Kirby, or Smash Bros. or Pokemon. 

 

Secondly you seemed to have inflated Nintendo's list there by adding some more titles I see, I went ahead and took a closer look at them as I couldn't have left those out if they actually qualified:

Captain Toad -Not a new IP, it's a spin off of a character from the Mario franchise.

Flip Wars- I can't even find this...

Devil's Third- Not owned by Nintendo

NES Remix- Not even gonna look it up, just by the name I can assume this is collection of old games and can't possibly be a new IP.

Sing Party- Ok, So I did miss one...

Tokio Mirage Sessions- I have to question if you know what a New IP even means...


NES Remix isn't a collection of old games, look it up. It reuses some parts of different NES games, but none is playable on it's own, just the challenges of the game

Tokio Mirage Sessions is neither Shin Megami Tensei nor is it Fire Emblem, though it uses some elements of both. Otherwise, Persona wouldn't count as IP either, as it's also a spinoff from SMT - a spinoff in the same light as Captain Toad btw. If Persona counts as an IP (and it DOES), then both TMS #FE and Captain Toad do

Flip Wars is a digital only small party game that came out in summer last year, but got quickly drowned by the flurry of higher profile releases.

Forgot Sushi Striker, btw

 

No need to explain, just couldn't find any information that those IP belonged to Sony, only that they were made by independent studios. As such, since I couldn't find any Sony ownership on them, I crossed them out. Mea culpa on all those that I crossed out wrongly.

Since you couldn't determine owner you supposed they weren't Sony? As said, you could look on the Copyright, you could check on their historic. You could have asked. All those games that person listed are owned by Sony, 2nd party type of release.

Mnementh said:
VAMatt said:

Please provide an example of any IP that comes anywhere close to the whoring level of Mario.  

Spiderman. Basically every three years or so the movie series is rebooted. Also he is in many other movies, is in diverse games and so on.

Please list 200 movies where Spider-Man is the main protagonist.

Mnementh said:
Sahib said:
Nintendo is easily the most risk averse big publisher as far as home consoles market goes. The sheer lack of new IPs by Nintendo is astonishing.

If Nintendo does never new IPs, how come they have a lot of them. Just take a look at Super Smash Bros vs. Playstation All Star Battle Royale. Sony had to deeply scrape the barrel for IPs they could include and still have a much less remarkable roster. I don't even compare to Smash Ultimate, just compare with Smash Brawl, which was at a similar time. Nintendo could whip up easily more remarkable IPs to fill the roster than Sony. So something says to me, that actually Nintendo isn't that bad at creating IPs.

This is so wrong it isn't even funny. It have much more to do with Nintendo nurturing the IPs for over 4 gens than Sony not creating the IPs (your comparison on Roster).



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Mnementh on 18 December 2018
Sahib said:
TheMisterManGuy said:

So even after i list you like 6-7 games, you still choose to ignore facts and make up shit with no evidence. How is Nintendo worse than Microsoft? Show me when Microsoft put out 7 New IPs in less than 2 years. AAA budgets or no, these games count. 

Why 2 years? Seems like an arbitrary number of years to make the comparison. how about this we do a comparison of a the current generation of consoles, i’ll Even combine Nintendo’s new IPs for both WiiU and Switch. 

Nintendo new IPs for Wii U and Switch:

Wonderful 101

Splatoon

Arms

1-2 Switch 

 Labo 

Snipperclips

 

 

***Octopath Traveller is a SE IP not Nintendo, like Ryse is a Cryrek IP not MS.

 

Microsoft new IPs for XB1:

Sunset Overdrive

Quantum Break

Recore 

Sea of Thieves

Crimson Dragon

Ori and the Blind Forest

Screamride 

 

KALIMBA

 

MS has a good edge on Nintendo, although both look irrelevant compared to Sony.

 

Sony new IPs for PS4:

  1. Bloodborne
  2. Horizon Zero Dawn
  3. The Last Guardian
  4. Detroit: Become Human
  5. Dreams (still unreleased)
     
  6. Until Dawn (from Supermassive that is not part of Sony and develops games also for other platforms)
  7. Driveclub
  8. The Order 1886
  9. Knack
  10. Death Stranding (still unreleased)
  11. Days Gone (still unreleased)
  12. Ghost of Tsushima (still unreleased)
  13. Concrete Genie (still unreleased)
  14. The Tomorrow Children 
  15. What Remains of Edith Finch (not Sony, not even PS exclusive)
  16. Everybody's gone to the Rapture
  17. Drawn to Death
  18. Kill strain
  19. Alienation (Housemarquee is not a Sony studio)
  20. Matterfall (Housemarquee is not a Sony studio)
  21. Bound (Plastic is not a Sony company)
  22. Helldivers (Arrowhead is not Sony)
  23. Resogun
  24. Hohokum
  25. Guns Up (by Valkyrie not Sony)
  26. Entwined
  27. CounterSpy
  28. Here They Lie
  29. Hidden Agenda (Supermassive)
  30. Erica (still unreleased)
  31. Astrobot 
  32. RIGS
  33. Starblood Arena
  34. Farpoint (Impulse Gear, not Sony)
  35. Blood and Truth (still unreleased)
  36. Bravo Team (Supermassive)
  37. Deracine (From Software)

You correctly call out Octopath Traveler as not being a game from Nintendo, then you declare a bunch of Indie games as Sony property. That's funny. If we would do the same, we could easily declare Overcooked, Celeste, Axiom Verge and Steamworld Dig as Nintendo games.

Next up you name a lot of games that are still unreleased. It could be years until Ghosts of Tsushima release. We know this tactics: for years every year we read about The Last Guardian in all list declaring why the next year will be the best year for the PS3. Yeah, PS3. Nintendo tends to unveil their games closer to release. I bet with you, that before Ghosts of Tsushima releases, three new Nintendo IPs are releasing as well.

And then you convieniently forget about Nintendo and MS IPs. For Nintendo you forget for instance Denpa Men, Dillon's Rolling Western, Tomodachi Life, Miitopia, Steel Diver, Pushmo, NES Remix and Sushi Strikers, from the top of my head.

After all it is not that Nintendo creates less new IPs than the others, just your perception is warped. Which is normal, we all have a bias. But just don't take your bias for fact.

Last edited by Mnementh - on 18 December 2018

3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

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pokoko on 18 December 2018
Mnementh said:
Sahib said:
Nintendo is easily the most risk averse big publisher as far as home consoles market goes. The sheer lack of new IPs by Nintendo is astonishing.

If Nintendo does never new IPs, how come they have a lot of them. Just take a look at Super Smash Bros vs. Playstation All Star Battle Royale. Sony had to deeply scrape the barrel for IPs they could include and still have a much less remarkable roster. I don't even compare to Smash Ultimate, just compare with Smash Brawl, which was at a similar time. Nintendo could whip up easily more remarkable IPs to fill the roster than Sony. So something says to me, that actually Nintendo isn't that bad at creating IPs.

I did as you suggested and took a look at the Smash Bros roster but I don't really understand your point.

If you remove "dark" versions and third-party characters, it looks like most of the characters come from the same "universes".  I'm going to take out characters like "Mii Fighter" and "Wii Trainer," too.  If Sony had gone that route, for example, they'd have access to all the Gods from the God of War series, all the Uncharted characters, all the Killzone characters, all the Ratchet & Clank characters, all the Sly Cooper characters, now all the characters from the Spider-Man game ... well, you get the picture.

Not quite the same situation.  



Mnementh on 18 December 2018
0D0 said:
Mnementh said:

If Nintendo does never new IPs, how come they have a lot of them. Just take a look at Super Smash Bros vs. Playstation All Star Battle Royale. Sony had to deeply scrape the barrel for IPs they could include and still have a much less remarkable roster. I don't even compare to Smash Ultimate, just compare with Smash Brawl, which was at a similar time. Nintendo could whip up easily more remarkable IPs to fill the roster than Sony. So something says to me, that actually Nintendo isn't that bad at creating IPs.

But on Smash there are lots of characters from very old IPs that nobody give a damm any more. There are also lots of secondary characters.

Besides smash is cartoon and Nintendo has lots of cartoon characters for it, unlike Sony.

What are you talking about? Nobody gives a damn about Donkey Kong? Or Kirby? Or what are you talking about? PSASBR included so well-known IPs like Ape Escape, Starhawk, Sly Cooper or Fat Princess. So fair to the par to games like Earthbound and Ice Climbers.

And Sony had no problem to include Kratos and Nathan Drake in PSASBR, so these aren't cartoony at all, so seemingly that is no problem.

After all Smash Brawl had 39 playable characters and four years later PSASBR only included 24 characters, even including DLC. Two years later Smash 4 included 51 characters and 7 DLC-characters.

So yeah, Sony has much more difficulties to whip up recognizable characters from different IPs than Nintendo.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]