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Forums - Gaming Discussion - FFXV Director "Tabata" has left Square Enix

shikamaru317 said:

We know enough to say that Tabata's version of the game is way different from what Nomura had originally planned. Stella, who was an equal to Noctis and had the same powers as him, got replaced by Luna, who was poorly developed and died so quickly that you had no time to develop an emotional attachment to her. The Emperor of Niflheim and Verstael, the Chief Scientist of Niflheim, were originally intended to be main villains in Nomura's version, but in Tabata's version they barely show up and both die off camera. Ignis was supposed to be Noctis' military strategist in Nomura's version, but ended up basically being Noctis' butler in Tabata's version, English accent and all. The planned Insmonia invasion and subsequent escape from Insomnia by Noctis and his friends was dropped from the game entirely in favor of Noctis and his friend's already be gone on a roadtrip when the invasion happened.  We know other details from a leak, but I won't get into those here since they aren't confirmed. We also have a good idea for what Nomura had planned for the combat system, based on what we've seen of Kingdom Hearts 3, which is way different from the hold button to attack system that Tabata came up with. In my opinion at least, Tabata did botch the game, though I don't think he is entirely to blame, it is clear that Square rushed him because they got sick of waiting for the game, he basically rebuilt the game from the ground up in 3 years. 

That's not really him botching the project though he likely had to rebuild the whole project because the was little actually developed to make a game with much like with VIIR where the trailers where nothing more than tech demos and not actual games and with the management wanting the game out had to make cuts. Combat is the only real thing I agree with here the KH style approach should have been kept.

The real problem is that the project was hijacked to be turned into XV with the thinking they would get the next entry out quicker while being able to start KH3 but now they likely would have been better off just creating a new ground up project for XV and let Versus finally be developed.



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Ka-pi96 said:
deskpro2k3 said:

I admit, I'm right. The irrefutable biblical hard facts is in the game's credits.

hmm, I'm not sure what's funnier, your ridiculously arrogant and condescending attitude, or that you put "biblical" and "facts" in the same sentence

How about actually addressing the argument than attacking me. Otherwise grab a chair and sit down.



Hynad said:
deskpro2k3 said:

I admit, I'm right. The irrefutable biblical hard facts is in the game's credits.

I see. So Sakaguchi is also credited for having helped save FF XIV.

That logic of yours is clouded by that hardon for Tetsuya Nomura.

you don't even have an argument. Take a break and clear your head from that hard on you're imagining.



Wyrdness said:
shikamaru317 said:

We know enough to say that Tabata's version of the game is way different from what Nomura had originally planned. Stella, who was an equal to Noctis and had the same powers as him, got replaced by Luna, who was poorly developed and died so quickly that you had no time to develop an emotional attachment to her. The Emperor of Niflheim and Verstael, the Chief Scientist of Niflheim, were originally intended to be main villains in Nomura's version, but in Tabata's version they barely show up and both die off camera. Ignis was supposed to be Noctis' military strategist in Nomura's version, but ended up basically being Noctis' butler in Tabata's version, English accent and all. The planned Insmonia invasion and subsequent escape from Insomnia by Noctis and his friends was dropped from the game entirely in favor of Noctis and his friend's already be gone on a roadtrip when the invasion happened.  We know other details from a leak, but I won't get into those here since they aren't confirmed. We also have a good idea for what Nomura had planned for the combat system, based on what we've seen of Kingdom Hearts 3, which is way different from the hold button to attack system that Tabata came up with. In my opinion at least, Tabata did botch the game, though I don't think he is entirely to blame, it is clear that Square rushed him because they got sick of waiting for the game, he basically rebuilt the game from the ground up in 3 years. 

That's not really him botching the project though he likely had to rebuild the whole project because the was little actually developed to make a game with much like with VIIR where the trailers where nothing more than tech demos and not actual games and with the management wanting the game out had to make cuts. Combat is the only real thing I agree with here the KH style approach should have been kept.

The real problem is that the project was hijacked to be turned into XV with the thinking they would get the next entry out quicker while being able to start KH3 but now they likely would have been better off just creating a new ground up project for XV and let Versus finally be developed.

It's my understanding that the 2 zones from the 2011 trailer were mainly finished (Insomnia Invasion and the forest area) and that the game was overall 25% complete at that point and planned for release on PS3 in 2014, but then Square's CEO made the decision to move the game to next gen and turn it into XV, so they basically started from scratch for PS4/XB1 in 2012. Nomura continued to work on it even after that as a co-director alongside Tabata, up until he was removed from the project entirely in late 2013. You can still see differences between Nomura's version of FFXV and Tabata's version of FFXV in the E3 2013 reveal trailer:

That trailer still has Versus 13 references; Fabula Nova Crystallis is written at the beginning, and there are references to the Goddess Etro and Noctis and Stella being able to see the light of expiring souls, that were completely cut in Tabata's version, alongside Stella herself being cut in favor of Luna. Ravus is portrayed as a hooded character with his face not being shown at all. Ideolas and Verstael are portrayed as the main villains while Ardyn takes a backseat. The dialogue suggests that it was still planned for Noctis and his friends to be present during the Invasion of Insomia at that point (though curiously most of the the gameplay footage is of Altissia, the capital of Accordo, not Insomnia). 

I think it is clear that Nomura and Tabata were butting heads behind scenes as co-directors and Square decided to remove Nomura so he could concentrate on KH3 and FF7 Remake (which both entered early development around that same time), and then Tabata got to have his way and remove the remnants of Nomura's Versus 13 that he didn't like. It's a real shame that things turned out the way they did, Versus 13 was Nomura's dream project, I bet he hated seeing Tabata change so much. 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 08 November 2018

⚠️

Getting a little heated in here. Try not to let things get personal, guys.



                                                                                                                                                           

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Damn it....
The one episode I wanted, Aranera, is canceled. :(



deskpro2k3 said:
Hynad said:

I see. So Sakaguchi is also credited for having helped save FF XIV.

That logic of yours is clouded by that hardon for Tetsuya Nomura.

you don't even have an argument. Take a break and clear your head from that hard on you're imagining.

No argument? 

I simply corrected you, and you can’t even take it.




vivster said:
AsGryffynn said:

You'd have to torpedo the company. 

I for one want to torpedo whoever greenlit the idea of a team of an all girl team using really dumb weapons to fight a ambiguous clone of Maleficent and the one who greenlit the idea of plot armored exoskeletons only teen girls with self-esteem issues could use. 

 

Your bias is showing. 

Well, yeah. Males don't belong in video games, especially with no females around. It's the right thing to do.

Look macho, The Elder Scrolls V: Manliness wants to have a word with you... 

Sin acritud! 

haxxiy said:
Isn't he the guy who basically made all the Versus XIII trailers and even the FFXV annoucement trailer a lie?

 

Darc Requiem said:

He's the guy that actually produced a game. Nomura spent 7 years on the and had nothing to show for it but trailers. It's crazy to me that the guy that was brought in to clean up his mess and produced a game in 3 years is gone. Good luck FFVII fans good old Nomura is in charge of the FFVII Remake. You all are about to get Duke Nukem Forever'd

This... 

And no, they're gonna get Fable'd instead... 



Epic was right all along... 

shikamaru317 said:
Otter said:

Botched what? Versus XIII never entered anyone outside of SEs hands. Its vapour ware, we have no idea what the game would have been like. This is all we have and its certainly not proof of anything 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiIx9VJWSl8  

Y'all are bickering as if SE hasn't been in a state for much of the last 10 years of FF, clearly the problem is bigger than any one director/producer. 

We know enough to say that Tabata's version of the game is way different from what Nomura had originally planned. Stella, who was an equal to Noctis and had the same powers as him, got replaced by Luna, who was poorly developed and died so quickly that you had no time to develop an emotional attachment to her. The Emperor of Niflheim and Verstael, the Chief Scientist of Niflheim, were originally intended to be main villains in Nomura's version, but in Tabata's version they barely show up and both die off camera. Ignis was supposed to be Noctis' military strategist in Nomura's version, but ended up basically being Noctis' butler in Tabata's version, British accent and all. The planned Insmonia invasion and subsequent escape from Insomnia by Noctis and his friends was dropped from the game entirely in favor of Noctis and his friend's already be gone on a roadtrip when the invasion happened.  We know other details from a leak, but I won't get into those here since they aren't confirmed. We also have a good idea of what Nomura had planned for the combat system, based on that 2011 trailer and from what we've seen of Kingdom Hearts 3, which is way different from the hold button to attack system that Tabata came up with. In my opinion at least, Tabata did botch the game, though I don't think he is entirely to blame, it is clear that Square rushed him because they got sick of waiting for the game, he basically rebuilt the game from the ground up in 3 years. Square should have let him co-direct the game with Nomura, with Nomura's main focus being on KH3 with assistance provided to Tabata as necessary, that way development wouldn't have needed to be restarted and we would have got to see more of Nomura's original vision for the game.

Except those rumors were just well, rumors. This was never the vision Nomura had. All along, Stella was put into the same role as Luna EXCEPT on the very first trailers, when there was no plot AT ALL (and are the ones that feature a fighting Stella). The only parts that changed vastly were the pacing and the invasion of Insomnia (in fact, this was where Tabata and co hit a snag. They wouldn't be able to deliver by the end of 2016 if they tried to keep it in. 

People need to stop this "Tabata ruined Nomura's game" because there was no such thing as "Nomura's game". It was just a collection of trailers and concepts similar to Agni (which I hope is the project they are working on at Luminous Studio, since they mentioned a new AAA IP). There was no actual plot beyond "Noct and Stella are Romeo and Juliet and fight a so called dictatorship" until you realize there was no plot in between. Admittedly, the concept would've been better than a relapse back into "turning Eos into Remnant II" but hey, at least we got a bloody game and not a load of warm air. 



Epic was right all along... 

AsGryffynn said:
shikamaru317 said:

We know enough to say that Tabata's version of the game is way different from what Nomura had originally planned. Stella, who was an equal to Noctis and had the same powers as him, got replaced by Luna, who was poorly developed and died so quickly that you had no time to develop an emotional attachment to her. The Emperor of Niflheim and Verstael, the Chief Scientist of Niflheim, were originally intended to be main villains in Nomura's version, but in Tabata's version they barely show up and both die off camera. Ignis was supposed to be Noctis' military strategist in Nomura's version, but ended up basically being Noctis' butler in Tabata's version, British accent and all. The planned Insmonia invasion and subsequent escape from Insomnia by Noctis and his friends was dropped from the game entirely in favor of Noctis and his friend's already be gone on a roadtrip when the invasion happened.  We know other details from a leak, but I won't get into those here since they aren't confirmed. We also have a good idea of what Nomura had planned for the combat system, based on that 2011 trailer and from what we've seen of Kingdom Hearts 3, which is way different from the hold button to attack system that Tabata came up with. In my opinion at least, Tabata did botch the game, though I don't think he is entirely to blame, it is clear that Square rushed him because they got sick of waiting for the game, he basically rebuilt the game from the ground up in 3 years. Square should have let him co-direct the game with Nomura, with Nomura's main focus being on KH3 with assistance provided to Tabata as necessary, that way development wouldn't have needed to be restarted and we would have got to see more of Nomura's original vision for the game.

Except those rumors were just well, rumors. This was never the vision Nomura had. All along, Stella was put into the same role as Luna EXCEPT on the very first trailers, when there was no plot AT ALL (and are the ones that feature a fighting Stella). The only parts that changed vastly were the pacing and the invasion of Insomnia (in fact, this was where Tabata and co hit a snag. They wouldn't be able to deliver by the end of 2016 if they tried to keep it in. 

People need to stop this "Tabata ruined Nomura's game" because there was no such thing as "Nomura's game". It was just a collection of trailers and concepts similar to Agni (which I hope is the project they are working on at Luminous Studio, since they mentioned a new AAA IP). There was no actual plot beyond "Noct and Stella are Romeo and Juliet and fight a so called dictatorship" until you realize there was no plot in between. Admittedly, the concept would've been better than a relapse back into "turning Eos into Remnant II" but hey, at least we got a bloody game and not a load of warm air. 

It was far more than just trailers and tech demos. According to reliable sources Nomura had finished writing the story by 2010 and the game was supposedly 25% finished and planned for release on PS3 in 2014 as of the 2011 trailer, but shortly after that Square was shown an early PS4 demonstration, and Square's CEO Yoichi Wada made the decision to transfer it to next gen and turn it into FF15. After that, Square wanted it done as fast as possible, so Tabata and his team were brought in to help with Tabata co-directing. There are reports of Tabata and his team clashing with Nomura and his team, so eventually Nomura was dropped entirely so he could work on KH3 and FF7 Remake, which had both entered early development by that point (December 2013).