By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - FFXV Director "Tabata" has left Square Enix

I think everyone is blaming the wrong people. The success and failures of this game are mostly a joint venture but if anyone caused the snowball it was Toriyama. Because he is one of the higher board members he got to make his game, FFXIII take precedent over Versus. Originally they were being made at the same time. FFXIII hit so much trouble that they started pulling Nomura's team onto it. One of the most damning things for Versus was when the already complicated process of making an engine had to turn to focus on a less complex game. Crystal tools should have been made primarily for Versus first, then XIII, that would have made the transistion simple. I swear I remember hearing that at one point Versus was ahead of XIII. Yet after FFXIII released they were left with the question on how to transition that same engine to work with a much broader game.

Nomura suffers from being too artistic and creative for his own good. I will say that. Much like Kojima..... he needs a handler to get him to scale back. I think even if the engine had not impeded him so much he might had over promised. It sucks because he kept having to be stolen away from his own projects to help with others. He is probably the most worked of all the Square Enix creators. Remember.... Square snuck in 2+ extra games into their timeline of the FF Versus XIII release. XIII-2 and Lightening Returns added to the derailment. I honestly think that once Nomura saw he was not going to be able to make the game that he promised, he no longer was up for it.

I distinctly remember leaks starting to happen the year before this console gen. They said that Square had planned to quietly scrap Versus after years of delays. Problem was....once that leak happened SquareEnix Stocks plummeted. They quickly put out a statement that the game was still in development. I think the game WAS actually cancelled, and everyone involved was ready to move on. Yet the Shareholders recognized FF Versus as the most appealing looking entity they had revealed and the hype for such a game would never just go away quietly. Many a share was bought on the premise of this game afterall. So at that time they kicked back into overdrive, but now they were given a time limit...... FF Versus XIII, now FFXV had to come out else so many deals were about to be broken.

This is where Tabata got tapped in. He was one of the only SE devs churning out his projects in a reasonable time, many of which were well received. He came in as the fixer for this game. Yet......I think some of his liberties ruined the spirit of what the game was promised to be, even with taking in consideration . Mainly....Luna. Why? One of the most appealing things of the original Versus concept was Stella, a badass Rapier wielding counterpart to Noctis. The removal of Magic was also damning and the limited level of control of the party members when they were previously stated to be uniquely playable was unfortunate.

Final Fantasy XV could have a movie written about it, it's development had so many turns.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

Around the Network

Idea

I always thought the decision to not have more traditional magic be utilized in the game to be ridiculous. Imagine this...
Noctis' weapons have Materia-Like slot. You make element crystals similar to how you draw them from crystals now in FFXV. You equip them into weapons but only one per weapon. Using said element would imbue them just like Ignis spells do. The element strength fades the more you use it. Also map one of the buttons to use the raw element as a spell but at price of expending what is left.

This minor change would have made a world of difference for me.

EDIT!!!

Another novel idea,

Aranea should have been apart of the party, by end game. The Car should have acted more like a Passive support character, similar to the Chocobo or Rise in Persona 4. Car could have bestowed random buffs and debuffs on certain intervals.  

Last edited by forevercloud3000 - on 08 November 2018

      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

From what I can gather SE at the moment aren't good at managing direction of their projects, they have people with vision and talent but not the discipline of structured direction. Shinji Mikami once said of Godhand that he had too much freedom and that some restrictions on letting him do what he wanted may have helped the game and I think this is what's happening at SE their main internal teams were having that too much freedom to the point it's not helping the games they work on.

This would explain why their projects keep running into development issues leading to other teams being pulled off projects to sort out messes and so on.



forevercloud3000 said:
I think everyone is blaming the wrong people. The success and failures of this game are mostly a joint venture but if anyone caused the snowball it was Toriyama. Because he is one of the higher board members he got to make his game, FFXIII take precedent over Versus. Originally they were being made at the same time. FFXIII hit so much trouble that they started pulling Nomura's team onto it. One of the most damning things for Versus was when the already complicated process of making an engine had to turn to focus on a less complex game. Crystal tools should have been made primarily for Versus first, then XIII, that would have made the transistion simple. I swear I remember hearing that at one point Versus was ahead of XIII. Yet after FFXIII released they were left with the question on how to transition that same engine to work with a much broader game.

Nomura suffers from being too artistic and creative for his own good. I will say that. Much like Kojima..... he needs a handler to get him to scale back. I think even if the engine had not impeded him so much he might had over promised. It sucks because he kept having to be stolen away from his own projects to help with others. He is probably the most worked of all the Square Enix creators. Remember.... Square snuck in 2+ extra games into their timeline of the FF Versus XIII release. XIII-2 and Lightening Returns added to the derailment. I honestly think that once Nomura saw he was not going to be able to make the game that he promised, he no longer was up for it.

I distinctly remember leaks starting to happen the year before this console gen. They said that Square had planned to quietly scrap Versus after years of delays. Problem was....once that leak happened SquareEnix Stocks plummeted. They quickly put out a statement that the game was still in development. I think the game WAS actually cancelled, and everyone involved was ready to move on. Yet the Shareholders recognized FF Versus as the most appealing looking entity they had revealed and the hype for such a game would never just go away quietly. Many a share was bought on the premise of this game afterall. So at that time they kicked back into overdrive, but now they were given a time limit...... FF Versus XIII, now FFXV had to come out else so many deals were about to be broken.

This is where Tabata got tapped in. He was one of the only SE devs churning out his projects in a reasonable time, many of which were well received. He came in as the fixer for this game. Yet......I think some of his liberties ruined the spirit of what the game was promised to be, even with taking in consideration . Mainly....Luna. Why? One of the most appealing things of the original Versus concept was Stella, a badass Rapier wielding counterpart to Noctis. The removal of Magic was also damning and the limited level of control of the party members when they were previously stated to be uniquely playable was unfortunate.

Final Fantasy XV could have a movie written about it, it's development had so many turns.

Oh, there is no doubt that Toriyama is the worst of Square's directors, though the changes that Tabata made to XV disappointed me (mainly the same changes you just mentioned, dropping Stella in favor of the much blander Luna, dropping the proper magic system for that crappy one, dropping full player party control, story changes, etc.), I still like Tabata alot more than Toriyama, I'm glad that Square basically demoted him from AAA development to mobile.

And I agree with you that Nomura is one of those visionary type game directors like Peter Molynuex and Kojima that needs somebody to reign him in, or else his projects just keep getting bigger and more ambitious to the point where they are no longer practical. That was definitely a problem with Versus 13, he promised things that simply wouldn't have been possible on PS3, which is one of the reasons why it's development was so slow, they were just waiting around on new tech for alot of that time. 

What I want to know is what the heck Ito is up to these days. The man has been pretty much off the grid for the last decade, his list of game credits these past 10 years have been so sad to see, 2 mobile games, special thanks on a few games, and supervisor on FF12 HD, that is it. Back in 2013 Hashimoto said that Ito was preparing some new projects, but we've heard nothing about these projects since then. I honestly believe that Ito is their best bet for directing FF16 now, Nomura is doing 7 Remake so he can't do 16, Kitase got promoted so he can't direct it, Tabata is gone now, Toriyama is awful, seems like Ito is their only hope of making a good FF16 at this point. 



We need a new SE director thread. While I was glad Tabata got something done, it is clear that Nomura's game would have been much better for me. Although FFXV got to my top 100, I think a FF game failing to get to my top 50 is unacceptable. Definitely excited for KH3, it will be the first AAA home console game from Nomura in a long time.



Around the Network

I appreciated his efforts to get FFXV finished and have really enjoyed the game and it's dlc so far. I hope he finds success at his new studio.



forevercloud3000 said:
I think everyone is blaming the wrong people. The success and failures of this game are mostly a joint venture but if anyone caused the snowball it was Toriyama. Because he is one of the higher board members he got to make his game, FFXIII take precedent over Versus. Originally they were being made at the same time. FFXIII hit so much trouble that they started pulling Nomura's team onto it. One of the most damning things for Versus was when the already complicated process of making an engine had to turn to focus on a less complex game. Crystal tools should have been made primarily for Versus first, then XIII, that would have made the transistion simple. I swear I remember hearing that at one point Versus was ahead of XIII. Yet after FFXIII released they were left with the question on how to transition that same engine to work with a much broader game.

Nomura suffers from being too artistic and creative for his own good. I will say that. Much like Kojima..... he needs a handler to get him to scale back. I think even if the engine had not impeded him so much he might had over promised. It sucks because he kept having to be stolen away from his own projects to help with others. He is probably the most worked of all the Square Enix creators. Remember.... Square snuck in 2+ extra games into their timeline of the FF Versus XIII release. XIII-2 and Lightening Returns added to the derailment. I honestly think that once Nomura saw he was not going to be able to make the game that he promised, he no longer was up for it.

I distinctly remember leaks starting to happen the year before this console gen. They said that Square had planned to quietly scrap Versus after years of delays. Problem was....once that leak happened SquareEnix Stocks plummeted. They quickly put out a statement that the game was still in development. I think the game WAS actually cancelled, and everyone involved was ready to move on. Yet the Shareholders recognized FF Versus as the most appealing looking entity they had revealed and the hype for such a game would never just go away quietly. Many a share was bought on the premise of this game afterall. So at that time they kicked back into overdrive, but now they were given a time limit...... FF Versus XIII, now FFXV had to come out else so many deals were about to be broken.

This is where Tabata got tapped in. He was one of the only SE devs churning out his projects in a reasonable time, many of which were well received. He came in as the fixer for this game. Yet......I think some of his liberties ruined the spirit of what the game was promised to be, even with taking in consideration . Mainly....Luna. Why? One of the most appealing things of the original Versus concept was Stella, a badass Rapier wielding counterpart to Noctis. The removal of Magic was also damning and the limited level of control of the party members when they were previously stated to be uniquely playable was unfortunate.

Final Fantasy XV could have a movie written about it, it's development had so many turns.

Honestly this why I think some developers were better on limited hardware. In the case of Kojima, I enjoyed his older works far better than his new ones. All technology of the newer platforms is great, but for really creative types it seems causes their imaginations to run wild and not in a good way.



AsGryffynn said:
vivster said:

Well, yeah. Males don't belong in video games, especially with no females around. It's the right thing to do.

Look macho, The Elder Scrolls V: Manliness wants to have a word with you... 

Sin acritud! 

Women can be manly too! Have you seen the internet?



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

shikamaru317 said:
AsGryffynn said:

Except those rumors were just well, rumors. This was never the vision Nomura had. All along, Stella was put into the same role as Luna EXCEPT on the very first trailers, when there was no plot AT ALL (and are the ones that feature a fighting Stella). The only parts that changed vastly were the pacing and the invasion of Insomnia (in fact, this was where Tabata and co hit a snag. They wouldn't be able to deliver by the end of 2016 if they tried to keep it in. 

People need to stop this "Tabata ruined Nomura's game" because there was no such thing as "Nomura's game". It was just a collection of trailers and concepts similar to Agni (which I hope is the project they are working on at Luminous Studio, since they mentioned a new AAA IP). There was no actual plot beyond "Noct and Stella are Romeo and Juliet and fight a so called dictatorship" until you realize there was no plot in between. Admittedly, the concept would've been better than a relapse back into "turning Eos into Remnant II" but hey, at least we got a bloody game and not a load of warm air. 

It was far more than just trailers and tech demos. According to reliable sources Nomura had finished writing the story by 2010 and the game was supposedly 25% finished and planned for release on PS3 in 2014 as of the 2011 trailer, but shortly after that Square was shown an early PS4 demonstration, and Square's CEO Yoichi Wada made the decision to transfer it to next gen and turn it into FF15. After that, Square wanted it done as fast as possible, so Tabata and his team were brought in to help with Tabata co-directing. There are reports of Tabata and his team clashing with Nomura and his team, so eventually Nomura was dropped entirely so he could work on KH3 and FF7 Remake, which had both entered early development by that point (December 2013). 

Except that the story he finished was mostly what we were shown. Nothing Nomura made diverged significantly save at the start. The only differences were the insertion of the Oracle role and the growth in Ardyn's role which was originally an Emperor thing. Well, there was also Lupus, but Lupus was no different to Ravus in anything excepting design. 

vivster said:
AsGryffynn said:

Look macho, The Elder Scrolls V: Manliness wants to have a word with you... 

Sin acritud! 

Women can be manly too! Have you seen the internet?

Yes, we stressed that if more women are needed somewhere, it's in K-dramas. 



Epic was right all along... 

Anyway such a shame I really liked the concept behind Versus/XV and found it more interesting than prior games' concepts hopefully with XVI they can execute what they come up with better.