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Forums - General Discussion - White Girl Wears Chinese Prom Dress - Outrage Commences

KLXVER said:
Some people just live in misery and want to share that with everyone. Fuck them.

This.

Also if i found out someone from another country was using a costume from my culture i would actually feel a sense of pride in that, after all it means someone likes the culture (or at least that part of the culture) enough, to even go with it to an event like that.



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This is the dumbest outrage I have ever seen and I am generally annoyed by it.



Paperboy_J said:
celador said:
yeah same old same old, it's only a problem if white people do something. reminds me of the fuss over the Ghost in the Shell movie that was accused of whitewashing, and yet there is barely a franchise going right now made in Europe or America that has white characters changed to black characters (normally white men traded out for black men)

what is funny is that if you looked at inventions, art, tv & movies, sports, food etc around the world and what is popular, if the same rules were applied to all then white people would probably culturally 'appropriate' the least

Totally different situation.  Blacks in America were stripped of their original culture and basically forced to adopt white culture as their own.  So you can't complain now that a lot of black actors are playing white roles.  

white people shouldn't have to give up things they have created to other people because of things that have happened in the past. if you want more black characters, make some instead of demanding that the next James Bond, next Superman,, next Batman and every other character should be black. that is surely preferable to black people anyway. i mean they even have historical dramas now where white famous people are played by black actors, it's ludicrous

Last edited by celador - on 01 May 2018

Ridiculous, all of this. Rethorical Question: Is this girl the first caucasian woman to wear a modern cheongsam.

Calling it an outrage. Some dudes posting on twitter. I think the only reason why people think others are so sensitive, is because words by numerically insignificant dunderheads get way blown out of proportion.



Hunting Season is done...

Nymeria said:

 It bothers me more that my native heritage was wiped away so I don't have the connection to it.  I wish it was taught more in school and society, that people were more aware that culture did exist here before colonization.  That the tribes are still here today and have value.  It honestly bothers me more when a European said to me how our (meaning American) history is "so young" acting like 1492 was day 1 of history in the "new world".

People being stupid and drunk dressing up on Halloween as caricatures pales compared to the legacy of poverty on reservations or the loss of culture of my own ancestors who were taken and forced to lose their "savage" nature.  I don't think we get much of anywhere picking on these superficial issues, the deeper roots of division are what interest me and working to a more knowledgeable and equitable society.

I conclude from what you write, you have native american heritage. And really, it is a shame that these cultures were destroyed. It says all, that today "native americans" are grouped together, as if it was one culture, while in reality it was many different. The same is true for africa, we often group that together, but before europeans destroyed the native cultures there existed a lot of different kingdoms.

And this all is a loss for all of humanity in reality. A diverse and rich cultural heritage is a big boon. Modern cultural products can rely on that. Movies, music, books and even games. Look alone how God of War forms a cultural heritage that wasn't destroyed into a great game. There are cultures that are not existing anymore, but their heritage is in parts intact. Take Babylon, Sumer, Ur. The Gilgamesh-myth is still known today. How many myths like that are now lost forever, because american and african cultures were destroyed?

And it should be more in our minds how badly american and african people were treated. We have in germany a culture of remembering what we did to jews, roma, gay people and communists. School classes have days they travel to the former KZs and learn what happened there. Do similar things happen for native americans and africans? I think we should all be aware of the crimes our ancestors commited. Not to feel guilty (I was and I am no Nazi), but to learn from it and learn to avoid similar things happen in the future.



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What's wrong with Chinese dresses? Chinese dresses are sexy.

Edit: not saying that their being sexy is a problem, just saying they're sexy.



CuCabeludo said:
Cultural appropriation only applies to white people using non-white stuff. Non-whites can use and abuse of all things white people made through the centuries and it's ok.

Which actually leads to the eradication of non-white culture. Not only non-whites can use western culture, it is often demanded of them. Think if people come in classic clothing to work. Chinese people wearing suits if they have international meetings. So it actually moves the non-white cultures more and more to the sidelines, makes them less and less visible.



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Nymeria said:
SuperNova said: 

Yes, I agree with all of that. I think unfortunately school education tends to focus more on the horrors that were comitted, than the living breathing cultures that were harmed. That is, if they aknowledge it at all, and not just happly toot on about the countries great achievements, instead of facing some uncomfortable truths.

Speaking from my own perspective, we did second Word War every year in some form all throughout secondary school. Be it in actual history lessons, reading Anne Franks diary for german lessons, doing a play about Auschwitz in theater class (and meeting the real life holocaust survivor the play was about, wich was amazing), looking at the econimic and geographical consequences of the third reich and examining the cultural and sociological impact in geography and social sciences. All of wich is important. What we didn't do is visit a single Synagogue. Or learn anything about jewish tradition and religion.

We looked at the piles of shoes, all that is left from the people the Nazis killed, but we didn't look at living breathing jewish culture in germany.

Cultures oral history especially tends to get dismissed and skipped over. Native american history and culture as well as current conditions should definetly be tought and examined in school. As should african american history and cultural movements imho. But the US school system is an underfunded clusterfuck, that allows for blatantly false 'science' to be taught based on an evangelical christian bias, atm so there is a LOT of fixing required.

I also agree that we don't get far picking on superficial issues, but I also came to realize that clothing carries meaning, a lot of the time more than we give it credit for at a casual glance. For many black slaves a fine suit was the diffrence between making it to the North or spending the rest of their life in servitude and a war bonnet was and is a sacred item that deserves to be treated with respect. So if someone is hurt by stupid drunk people appropiating their culture and legacy, all the while ignoring all the very real problems that exist due to was done to that culture, I think they have the right to speak about it. Ideally in such a way as to educate and alert people to the actual, way bigger problems that are going on.

I have a deep admiration for Germany and how its handled its history following the wars.  May even a bit too much being so concerned with Dritte Reich imagery, but I know heart is in the right place. May not be perfect, but as you stated about US education system it is progress.

Part of this view comes from American culture where locally we have festivals to celebrate local cultures of Mexican, Irish, Italian, and especially German culture.  I wore a dirndl and drank beer from a glass boot which may be stereotypical and even offensive to you given I have no direct German heritage, but it was more of sharing and honoring each other to become closer. I do think intent and attitude matters, not just the imagery.

The challenge with these issues is we are often arguing about end products and the divide comes from very different understanding of history.  For example, if all someone knew about Germany was the second World War that vacuum of context would create a very distorted view of your people.  I'm not sure how much progress or valid use of mental resources it is spending outrage on a symptom if we ignore the causes of such mindsets.  It's not an easy issue to resolve given as a species we naturally want to take reductionist views of others.

I think the fact that america has such a rich tradition of celebrating local heritage indiscriminately is great, actually. Everyone gets to get sloshed on St.Patricks day just as much as everyone gets to dress up for halloween and celebrate Oktoberfest. We need more of that, if you ask me. I think it's a great opportunity to educate a little as well, whenever possible.

I certainly don't take offense to anyone wearing a Dirndl, even if it's a bit reductive of German culture overall. As a notherner, I've never even worn a Dirndl (Dirndl and lederhosen are specifically Bavarian traditional dress and the Oktoberfest is a celebration for the Bavarian kings wedding if I remember correctly). Why we still celebrate it, I have no Idea but we have our own inner german mini culture appropiation going on, with Oktoberfest parties getting bigger in the north every year and more and more people dressing in Dirndls and Lederhosen.

For the most part bavarians seem to be very proud of their traditional clothes and their international popularity and tend to be really inclusive about it.

Like you said in the end it brings cultures closer toghether and I'd much rather be reduced to Lederhosen and Dirndls than to the atrocities comitted in WW2. Although I try to break it to people gently that for the most part, that is very much a bavarian thing and they should not expect to see them anywhere else outside of oktoberfest season.



this is stupid.

why is it anyone's business anyways? so what? its what she wants to wear.



 

PC culture is idiotic yet it's everywhere. It makes ya wonder about the people who came up with it and the ones who follow it like a religion.