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Forums - Sony Discussion - Can Sony afford to make PS5 more expensive than PS4 launch price?

 

How much should it cost?

400 45 52.94%
 
450 15 17.65%
 
500 21 24.71%
 
550 0 0%
 
600 0 0%
 
600+ 4 4.71%
 
Total:85
twintail said:

While I think the PS5 will obviously be PS4 BC

That is in no way obvious. Already adding a Zen-like thingie with SMT will break many of the current PS4 games. Toss SMT one out and you are safer with bc.

On another note, I see a lot of posts (in many forums) that want a $1000 gpu, a $400 cpu, $250 ram, $400 ssd drives in a PS5 "but a $499 price would be too high". I wish these nuts would get ome education before posting such nonsense.

I see a stripped-down custom Ryzen 2600 with an 9-10TF gpu in a SoC, 16GB gddr6 as a reasonable expectation by late 2020 for a new console with an affordable price point.



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Pemalite said:

 

Errorist76 said:

Be assured Sony has very close ties to AMD (they even developed some Vega features together)...

That is a bold claim. Now prove it.

That I would love to see, too

dx11332sega said:

Xbox One X and PS4 Pro have been battling positions back and forth in january and February

Overall I don't think it really matters. The Playstation 4 Pro hasn't exactly been smashing the base Playstation 4 in terms of sales rate.

I expect the sales of the Pro to go up while the ones of the base model to go down, as the Pro is slowly becoming the better model in terms of value for money, plus an increasing number of those who upgrade from the base to the Pro model. So while it's still not going to beat base PS4 sales it should come closer and closer over time.

Errorist76 said:

You also forget, that the Pro‘s GPU is indeed more advanced, as it even uses Vega features the X1X is lacking. Optimisation can do a lot if developers take their time.


...Like...?

Basically everything. Just check what Nintendo can manage to get out of their hardware even though in raw power it's massively lagging behind since the Wii. This doesn't only count for graphics directly, but also other things like texture compression and anything hanging on recurring algorithms.


Bofferbrauer2 said:

Thus the GPU part needs at least 10-12 TFlops of raw calculating power to stand out visually over the Pro, and that doesn't come cheap.

Why does it need it? And how does it relate to how expensive it is?

Less than that and it won't have enough to differentiate itself from the PS4 Pro or the XOX. Even in 7nm that will need a pretty big chip, and the bigger the chip, the more expensive it gets, nearly exponentially so in fact.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Graphic cards in that power range cost more than an entire console right now, and even by 2020 it doesn't look like their price will be under 200$ by then.

Yeah. GPU's right now aren't representative of actual costs though.
DRAM prices have artificially inflated prices... And then they have additional pressure from bitcoin snapping up GPU's left, right and center.
I suggest you don't take the current price dynamics as something representative of chip costs.

While it's not representative of the actual costs, it shows the trends on how much it will cost in the end.

DRAM is not artificially inflated, the prices are high because there's simply not enough production capacity worldwide for those chips. Hopefully this will change next year when some fabs come online, but it might still not be enough if demand keeps growing like it does right now.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Add to this the need for more RAM and a stronger CPU plus the price of all the rest of the hardware and I hardly see how a price of 399$ can be achieved without resorting to an unhealthy heavy amount of subventionning

Good thing higher density RAM released this year... And stronger CPU's have been around for the good part of a decade.

@bolded: Did you mean DDR5 with that? If yes, you got something mixed up. DDR5 is getting specified this year. Until commercial release it will take a couple more years, probably 2021 or 2022 if it takes about as long as it took for DDR3 and DDR4.

But a PS4 will most probably use GDDR, not simple DDR Memory, based on DDR4. Such a memory is sill not out, though a GDDR6 is probably coming any time now and will probably be used in a PS5.

About the CPU: Yes, from Intel, who doesn't produce custom designs or better than entry-level GPUs. Plus they tend to be pricey, making then unavailable for consoles. AMD only now could catch up again with Ryzen, and will probably ask more from any chip based upon this than on Jaguar a) because it's a bigger chip at same core number and b) because AMD doesn't need the console money that badly anymore, giving them a better negotiation position. All in all, the main APU chip will get bigger compared to the one in the PS4 at launch and thus more expensive, and the RAM will most probably still be relatively expensive and comparatively certainly more as it did for the PS4 during it's launch. Which means either higher price or strong subventionning.


Errorist76 said:

I game on PC, thank you. Problem is PCs are also held back by those weak CPUs. The Jaguar was already outdated at release 5 years ago.

My 7 year old i5 is faster than the CPU in the X1X! That’s why it’s still sufficient for 99% of games.

My 10 year old PC's Core 2 processor is faster than what's in the Xbox One X. So not really saying much. :P

In singlecore, sure. But would that still be true in multicore with it's 8 processor cores? Unless it's a core 2 quad, I doubt it. Jaguar is weak, but not that weak.

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 04 March 2018

PS4 = $400 / €400

PS5 = $500 / €500

And if memory prices and storage prices stay high due to overwhelming demand (PCs, mobile, consoles... all new models use/need more RAM & flash memory), Sony perhaps has no choice if they want to upgrade the RAM to 16, 24 or even 32 GB in the PS5.

GPU prices are also rising thanks to the additional demand of miners, of course AMD or Nvidia are in a much better position in pricing the next console GPU or APU. TSMC and Global Foundries can't grow as fast as the demand for faster processors for PCs and mobile devices, of course that will also rub off on the prices for console processors.

But the price perception is all in context to similar products. If PC GPUs stay expensive and new smartphone flagships get more expensive every year, a powerful PS5 for $499 or even $599 could be seen as a good deal for the majority of customers, who are already conditioned to higher hardware prices.   



$500 isn't worth as much now as it was at the start of last generation. Adjusted for inflation, the 20GB PS3's launch price was $615, and the 20GB 360's was just over $500.

I think a $500 system released in 2020 or 2021 would work if Sony found a way to justify it, and they could do so by making the PS5 as powerful as possible for the price point (yay, alliteration). After 14-15 years of inflation, $500 just isn't outrageous for a console as it once was. Now, a $500 PS5 may have lower initial sales and be a slower burn like the 360 & PS3 were, but that also means that through strategic placement of price cuts Sony could extend the generation longer, maybe to where the PS6 won't need to be released until 2028 at the absolute earliest.

Now, MS could undercut Sony with a $400 Xbox 4, but such a system will either A) come at a loss if it matches the PS5's specs, or B) it will be underpowered compared to the PS5, perhaps to a non-trivial degree. This could have an effect. The 360 was $100 less expensive than the PS3 at launch (counting just the 20GB SKUs), but the two were roughly on par in terms of capabilities as a gaming system, with the PS3's only real advantage being its ability to play Blu-ray movies



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drkohler said:
twintail said:

While I think the PS5 will obviously be PS4 BC

That is in no way obvious. 

Nah it is.

Retaining their customers is of utmost importance considering how strongly they are relying on network related purchasing for profits .

Not having BC , at least digitally, will undermine all the hard work they have done this gen.



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twintail said:
drkohler said:

That is in no way obvious. 

Not having BC , at least digitally, will undermine all the hard work they have done this gen.

Because, as we all know, the PS4 did not sell at all because it was not BC with the PS3..........



drkohler said:
twintail said:

Not having BC , at least digitally, will undermine all the hard work they have done this gen.

Because, as we all know, the PS4 did not sell at all because it was not BC with the PS3..........

and you are missing the bigger picture here if you cant see how important the digital space is right now going forward. 

There is one defining trait of this gen: digital purchases have grown exponentially compared to last gen. Since there is a bigger interaction of the network side from consumers, that means its highly important, now more than ever in the console space, to ensure the transition from one generation to the next via online services is as smooth and feature ready as it can be. Users having access to previously purchased content is one of those important avenues that any company, in any field, is going to ensure. 

Coming off the PS3 and essentially having market dominance, Sony is going to want to retain as much of this consumer base as possible. They will easily do that with BC. They will only make their job harder, and MSs easier, if they dont. And MS is not going to screw up the reveal of their next console either. These PSN subs are vitally important right now, and will be doubly so when next gen begins. 

Its going to be hard for someone to say no to the PS5 and yes to the X2 if they have tons of PS4 purchases that are comfortably accessible on a PS5. If not, then making a clean jump is not that difficult a decision. 



The economy has changed, and people have more money, and.... well the consoles need some serious CPU attention. That will cost $$.

Still with that said, $400 is the sweet spot. But I see a $500 price point more realistic in the time of 4k and 60fps as a next gen requirement. And I would not be surprised by that time 8K was the new standard making its way through the industry and another midway upgrade console come out like the Pro/X did this gen.



 

Trumpstyle said:
dx11332sega said:

Can they ? Xbox One X sales on amazon sometimes show it beating PS4 Pro though Microsoft would not show there number sales of One X but I guess Microsoft isn't losing money on every Xbox one X sold or that One X is just sitting on store shelves not being sold for a very long time ? I'm curios if Sony can take a bite and go for an even more powerful console like somewhere like 500 or is it to risky and best bet for PS5 is 400 what if that 400 dollar PS5 comes out in 2020 and is slightly more powerful than One X but One X at that time will be 400 .

 

Do you prefer a slightly more powerful PS5 vs One X or a 500 dollar Bonafide beast I know 600 dollars is extremely risky which is why they lost money back in 7th gen and because the consumers weren't ready to spend 600 dollars . I still think consumers aren't ready for a 600 dollar console but are they ready for a 500 dollar Sony console? What do you think is the sweet spot for PS5 and do you think 450 or even 500 is risky or can the consumer go big for a 600 dollar machine again? You yourself can you afford a 500 dollar machine ? How much should it cost to compete with 500 dollar Xbox two without kinect 3 ?

Both Sony and microsoft will probably sell their new consoles for 449$ as max, but are likely aiming for 399$ price. These consoles need mass adoption from the start so launching at 499$ will likely result in failure.

For myself, I'm fine with 399-599$ launch price. I mostly just want faster cpu and hard drive for more stable framerate and faster loading times.

I take this back, from the small amount insider information we got, 499$ launch price is definitely a possibilty. We could see a pretty crazy ps5 then. That has a 12-13 TF GPU with 576 GB/s memory bandwitdh combined with 8 core ryzen cpu clocked at 3,4 ghz.



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JRPGfan said:
estebxx said:
399 is the sweet spot, those who want more power will now wait 3 years for the eventual PRO update.

A "sudo" 8k for those people that buy 8k TV's? nah.
I think next gen, there wont be a "mid-way" upgrade.

Pro has been fairly successful, and it’s a great way to extend the generation. I wouldn’t doubt for even a second that PS5 Pro will be a thing. Honestly, I think they’re gonna launch at the same time. 



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