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Forums - Sales Discussion - Amazon U.S. October bestsellers and general Amazon-based discussion

StarDoor said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Q1 ended before the first out of 3 production increases announced for this year was taking effect. With Inreases 1&2 having been in Juli and late September, we will see in 10 days how much they actually improved the situation in terms of shipments. And seeing how well they are doing here on Amazon US right now, still before increase number 3, I'm pretty sure 12M is lowest end of what they can do.

What is your source for there being three separate production increases? All Nintendo has confirmed is the one in July. Periods of increased shipments aren't the same thing as production increases, because all console manufacturers hold back a certain amount of stock for the holiday quarter. It doesn't make financial sense to increase production capacity just for the holidays, because then that capacity goes unused for the rest of the year.

Nintendo Direct. At least here, they said that the production increases will take their effect during early summer, late summer and finally for the holiday season.

Also, there where the reports early in the year that Nintendo bumped up the production (well, planned to anyway) even before the console got launched, with the first plan announcing a doubling of the production for this year (not fiscal year) from 8 to 16 and then a second one bringing it to 18 to make sure everyone could get a switch during the holiday season and not having crying children who couldn't get one (their own statement!) - though it's been rumored that the small bump was mostly to get better conditions from the parts suppliers (probably steadier supply, but possibly also for a lower price)



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Bofferbrauer2 said:
StarDoor said:

For Nintendo to ship 14M this fiscal year, they would need to ship around 7M in the holiday quarter, and I really don't see that happening.

Their overall shipments would have to be something like this:
FY3/2018 NS:
Q1: 1.96M
Q2: 2.40M
Q3: 7.00M
Q4: 2.70M

But Nintendo only managed to ship 6.96 million Wii units in its first-year holiday quarter, and that was when they were shipping over 3 million in the non-holiday quarters.

FY3/2008 Wii:
Q1: 3.43M
Q2: 3.90M
Q3: 6.96M
Q4: 4.32M

I mean, it might be possible if Nintendo really was creating artificial scarcity and they actually stockpiled enough units for normal holiday demand, but I'm not counting on it.

Q2 and Q4 are too low on your prevision, hence why you have to overcompensate by giving Q3 a whooping 7M. You can take a million away from there and distribute it between the other two quarters and it will be much closer to what can be achieved.

We still have little information that could let us predict Q4, but you're objecting to Q2 as well? If anything, 2.4M is slightly higher than what NPD and Media Create would suggest. By the end of September, Switch was at 2.3 million maximum in the USA (2.6 million maximum in the Americas), and 1.8 million in Japan. To reach those numbers from the previous shipment results:

Americas: 1.95M to 2.60M (+750k)
Japan: 1.12M to 1.78M (+660k)

Even if you assume that Switch in Other regions sold as much as the Americas, which is generally untrue for Nintendo consoles, then that leaves us with lifetime sell-in at 6.86 million at the end of Q2. To reach 2.4 million shipments for the quarter, or 7.1 million cumulative shipments, unsold stock around the world would have to be 240k at minimum. Given how close Switch sell-in and sell-through have been throughout the year, I think 2.4M is close to the high end for Switch shipments in Q2.



Switch is killing it right now.



StarDoor said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Q2 and Q4 are too low on your prevision, hence why you have to overcompensate by giving Q3 a whooping 7M. You can take a million away from there and distribute it between the other two quarters and it will be much closer to what can be achieved.

We still have little information that could let us predict Q4, but you're objecting to Q2 as well? If anything, 2.4M is slightly higher than what NPD and Media Create would suggest. By the end of September, Switch was at 2.3 million maximum in the USA (2.6 million maximum in the Americas), and 1.8 million in Japan. To reach those numbers from the previous shipment results:

Americas: 1.95M to 2.60M (+750k)
Japan: 1.12M to 1.78M (+660k)

Even if you assume that Switch in Other regions sold as much as the Americas, which is generally untrue for Nintendo consoles, then that leaves us with lifetime sell-in at 6.86 million at the end of Q2. To reach 2.4 million shipments for the quarter, or 7.1 million cumulative shipments, unsold stock around the world would have to be 240k at minimum. Given how close Switch sell-in and sell-through have been throughout the year, I think 2.4M is close to the high end for Switch shipments in Q2.

You expect Switch to ship the same amount of units of last quarter in America? Because 750,000 is the same as Apr-Jun.

We have estimate for July/August which are 222k July and 215k August, for a total of 437k those 2 months.

Then there is September which is likely close to 300k (we know Switch outsold PS4 in September, which should be at least close to last year 285k, or down just a bit), so we can assume Switch has sold almost 750,000 only in USA. Don't forget America is not only USA, USA is usually between 80 or 90% of total America sales, so 700-750k in USA would be something between 750-950k. I mean, they may have shipped 750k, but that's really the worst scenario, it's most likely in the 850k range or so.

Also, Japan is definitively more than 1.78m. According to Media Create Switch sold 1,784,184 units, so unless you think shipments are lower than sales, you can understand shipments MUST be over that.

Using MC again, by end of June there were less than 1.04 million Switch sold in Japan, so if they shipped a total of 1.12 million, there were over 80k Switch in stock.

Assuming we have something similar to this, but it's probabily even more because we know the shipments for Switch are increased a lot in Japan recently, we have a total of over 1.86 million Switch shipped, i would say probabily something like 1.9 million.

So Japan probabily got 780k Switch this quarter.



Ryng_Tolu said:
StarDoor said:

We still have little information that could let us predict Q4, but you're objecting to Q2 as well? If anything, 2.4M is slightly higher than what NPD and Media Create would suggest. By the end of September, Switch was at 2.3 million maximum in the USA (2.6 million maximum in the Americas), and 1.8 million in Japan. To reach those numbers from the previous shipment results:

Americas: 1.95M to 2.60M (+750k)
Japan: 1.12M to 1.78M (+660k)

Even if you assume that Switch in Other regions sold as much as the Americas, which is generally untrue for Nintendo consoles, then that leaves us with lifetime sell-in at 6.86 million at the end of Q2. To reach 2.4 million shipments for the quarter, or 7.1 million cumulative shipments, unsold stock around the world would have to be 240k at minimum. Given how close Switch sell-in and sell-through have been throughout the year, I think 2.4M is close to the high end for Switch shipments in Q2.

You expect Switch to ship the same amount of units of last quarter in America? Because 750,000 is the same as Apr-Jun.

We have estimate for July/August which are 222k July and 215k August, for a total of 437k those 2 months.

Then there is September which is likely close to 300k (we know Switch outsold PS4 in September, which should be at least close to last year 285k, or down just a bit), so we can assume Switch has sold almost 750,000 only in USA. Don't forget America is not only USA, USA is usually between 80 or 90% of total America sales, so 700-750k in USA would be something between 750-950k. I mean, they may have shipped 750k, but that's really the worst scenario, it's most likely in the 850k range or so.

Also, Japan is definitively more than 1.78m. According to Media Create Switch sold 1,784,184 units, so unless you think shipments are lower than sales, you can understand shipments MUST be over that.

Using MC again, by end of June there were less than 1.04 million Switch sold in Japan, so if they shipped a total of 1.12 million, there were over 80k Switch in stock.

Assuming we have something similar to this, but it's probabily even more because we know the shipments for Switch are increased a lot in Japan recently, we have a total of over 1.86 million Switch shipped, i would say probabily something like 1.9 million.

So Japan probabily got 780k Switch this quarter.

You misunderstood what I said. I didn't say 750k and 660k were the literal shipment numbers, I said those were the differences between sell-through at the end of Q2 and sell-in at the end of Q1. You would then add unsold stock to those numbers to get the shipment numbers for the quarter. Switch is still as supply-constrained as ever in Japan, so I doubt that there's a larger amount of unsold stock there than there was in June. In the Americas, USA sell-in was 378k below total shipments, which has probably increased to around 550k as of September. So 2.26M + 550k is 2.81M. As for Other, its sales are usually between the Americas and Japan, although probably closer to Japan at this point.

Americas: 2.81M (+860k)
Japan: 1.86M (+740k)
Other: 2.43M (+800k)
WW: 7.10M (+2.40M)

Now, if PS4 actually did as well this year in the USA as in previous years, then maybe the number for the Americas is too low (I expected Switch to sell 260k in September, based on the same weekly sales rate as in August), but I think this is countered by the Other numbers being too high. VGChartz seems to think that Switch in Europe is selling only 60% of what it's selling in North America, and it's not like RoW is going to make up the difference.



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Ryng_Tolu said:
Insidb said:

Pricecuts incoming?

I doubt they want a pricecut if they expect PS4 to be down YOY, expecially if PS4 is probabily doing better than they expect.  Of course we will see some promotions from retailers, but that's another story.

I agree.



StarDoor said:

You misunderstood what I said. I didn't say 750k and 660k were the literal shipment numbers, I said those were the differences between sell-through at the end of Q2 and sell-in at the end of Q1. You would then add unsold stock to those numbers to get the shipment numbers for the quarter. Switch is still as supply-constrained as ever in Japan, so I doubt that there's a larger amount of unsold stock there than there was in June. In the Americas, USA sell-in was 378k below total shipments, which has probably increased to around 550k as of September. So 2.26M + 550k is 2.81M. As for Other, its sales are usually between the Americas and Japan, although probably closer to Japan at this point.

Americas: 2.81M (+860k)
Japan: 1.86M (+740k)
Other: 2.43M (+800k)
WW: 7.10M (+2.40M)

Now, if PS4 actually did as well this year in the USA as in previous years, then maybe the number for the Americas is too low (I expected Switch to sell 260k in September, based on the same weekly sales rate as in August), but I think this is countered by the Other numbers being too high. VGChartz seems to think that Switch in Europe is selling only 60% of what it's selling in North America, and it's not like RoW is going to make up the difference.

Oh ok, makes sense, sorry for the misunderstood.

As for Switch numbers in September NPD, the PS4 sold an estimate of around 191,000 units in August. Now, September is always an increase in weekly sales, and it also was Destiny 2 and NBA month (both games sold over 1.3 million units at retail, withouth digital), Destiny 2 had a bundle as well.

I know all, i know Destiny 2 underperformed, i know the bundle was probabily pretty niche and expensive, i get all, but still, September is a bigger month than August in general, and i'm sure NBA and Destiny made a bit boost of PS4 sales. September is a 5 weeks month compared to August 4 weeks, so, if Switch sold 260k this month, and the PS4 less than that, this would mean the weekly sales of PS4 were up by only 9% this month. For a comparation:

September 2014 = +126% (Destiny month, PS4 white bundle, huge month)
September 2015 = +37%
September 2016 = +43%

I can see this year being the smaller increase, but should still be a bit more than that. And, Switch is over PS4 so you see.

Also, VGChartz numbers are inaccurate if VGC does not have a source to get the numbers, so better no use them.



For nearly two years now people have been periodically asking for a PS4 price cut and every time I've said it won't happen because Sony don't react, they follow a plan.

Here we are with Christmas coming up, one console getting it's first Christmas and another console launching, new models of Pro, PSVR and MOVE revealed, and suddenly, when it seem likely now is the time for a price cut, people don't think there will be one.

Everything is in place that makes it 'likely' (take that word in carefully.) We'll see but if there was ever a time to suggest a price cut was in the offing, now is the time.



 

The PS5 Exists. 


GribbleGrunger said:
For nearly two years now people have been periodically asking for a PS4 price cut and every time I've said it won't happen because Sony don't react, they follow a plan.

Here we are with Christmas coming up, one console getting it's first Christmas and another console launching, new models of Pro, PSVR and MOVE revealed, and suddenly, when it seem likely now is the time for a price cut, people don't think there will be one.

Everything is in place that makes it 'likely' (take that word in carefully.) We'll see but if there was ever a time to suggest a price cut was in the offing, now is the time.

I think they'll chop $50 off everything if it happens



celador said:

I think they'll chop $50 off everything if it happens

Oh, yes, it's by no means a given. Sony will have a plan to do it but they won't do it unless they think it will 'improve' the projected outcome. I think it's almost certain that they'll drop the price of PSVR and of course MOVE would be part of that strategy. They've clearly revised the Pro to improve their profits and give them leg room for a price cut if they think they're not going to meet those targets. I've always believed the PS4 was cheaper to make than people think so perhaps that's why they haven't announced a revised version of that yet, but then again, who's to say they won't announce that at an event, maybe Paris. 

I'd also say $50.



 

The PS5 Exists.