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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo was never doomed

JWeinCom on 26 August 2017
KLAMarine said:

It's difficult for me: I'm not in the habit of looking up financial reports but going off of some recent articles, sounds like Nintendo has done pretty well:

Nintendo: $190 million in profit out of $1.38 billion in net sales

https://mynintendonews.com/2017/07/26/nintendo-returns-to-profit-thanks-to-nintendo-switch/

PlayStation: $160 million in operating profit out of revenue of $3.15 billion

http://comicbook.com/gaming/2017/08/01/playstation-4-sales-slump-gaming-profits-down-sony-earnings-report/

I'm not a business major, far from it. I believe profit and operating profit are two different things as are net sales and revenue so these figures are likely not directly comparable...

Also, are these for the same periods of time? I often hear about quarters and to this day, I'm not entirely sure what time periods these quarters span...

Seriously, this financial stuff just doesn't interest me much. I just hope the games I like are successful.

Operating profit means the profit that is made from core operations.

For example, I believe Nintendo sold their stakes in the mariners recently.  This would show up as a profit, since they made money, but it's not operating profit, because it's not part of their normal business.

Basically this is so investors can determine long term viability.  Nintendo isn't going to sell a baseball team every year, so if you were to invest in them, you probably wouldn't want to consider that very heavily.

 



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Peach_buggy on 26 August 2017
Turkish said:
gentii said:

You really believe thats Sony phone have profit? OMG but Xperia division its a dissaster ?? Picture Division dissater???? TV division dissaster? You need more cok guzel? Lol lol LOL

You literally don't know what you're talking about and are just trolling at this point.

Division performance ranked from best to worst:

Semiconductors 55.4Bn yen profit

Financial Services 46.2Bn yen profit

Music 25Bn yen profit

Imaging Products & Solutions (IP&S) 23.2Bn yen profit

Home Entertainment & Sound (HE&S) 22.6Bn yen profit

Game & Network Services (G&NS) 17.7Bn yen profit

Mobile Communications (MC) 3.6Bn yen profit

Pictures 9.5Bn yen loss

 

Only Sony Pictures lost money, everything else is "çok güzel". 👌  Also whats this gibberish "OMG but Xperia division its a dissaster"? How do u grammer? If English is too hard for u go learn Turkish and come back to me lol.

I believe you were asking for a poll.

https://www.thetoptens.com/top-video-game-companies/



Turkish on 26 August 2017
StarDoor said:

 

 

Turkish said:

"In other words, pointing out that Sony's profits were a hundred million dollars or so more in one quarter is a pretty poor argument to show that Sony is more profitable or more popular." No one made that argument, the argument was that Playstation was more profitable and popular, not Sony. This interaction started whether a spun off Playstation would be worth more than Nintendo, as did the argument which company is worth more today. And about Nintendoes most popular console, of course I meant their fastest selling console.

Both my statements are correct. Playstation is indeed more profitable and popular as they sell more consoles and make more money, and Sony has a bigger market cap. Not sure what arguments need to be started here. You're right you don't need to hear about my travels, because you already know PS4 is indeed the best selling and most popular console on the maket, my anecdotes only explain Sony ain't lying.

How would PlayStation alone be worth more than Nintendo when Sony has five divisions that are more profitable than PlayStation, yet the overall market cap for all of Sony combined is only 5% higher than Nintendo?

Turkish said:

 Division performance ranked from best to worst:

Semiconductors 55.4Bn yen profit

Financial Services 46.2Bn yen profit

Music 25Bn yen profit

Imaging Products & Solutions (IP&S) 23.2Bn yen profit

Home Entertainment & Sound (HE&S) 22.6Bn yen profit

Game & Network Services (G&NS) 17.7Bn yen profit

Mobile Communications (MC) 3.6Bn yen profit

Pictures 9.5Bn yen loss

Apparently, you must think that Sony could multiply its stock value by six times if all of its divisions split up into separate companies.

Also, saying that Sony sells more consoles is dubious, since the only timeframe for which that's true is the last 4 years:
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=230847&page=1

They've only sold more since the PS4 launched: In other words, they've sold more only when you look at Nintendo's worst generation and exclude the 3DS's best two years on top of that. During the fifth gen, Nintendo was ahead. During the sixth gen, Sony and Nintendo sold nearly equal amounts. During the seventh gen, Nintendo was significantly ahead. Only during the eighth gen has Sony been significantly ahead.

Saying Sony selling more consoles is not dubious lol, it's a fact. You don't need to go 5 or 10 years to claim otherwise. "nintendos worst generation" is an excuse, can also be said about "sony's worst generation".

KLAMarine said:
Turkish said:

Is not hard to look up latest financial reports. PS4 division made 17.7bn yen profit vs Nintendoes 16.2 last q, and they just launched their most popular console.

It's difficult for me: I'm not in the habit of looking up financial reports but going off of some recent articles, sounds like Nintendo has done pretty well:

Nintendo: $190 million in profit out of $1.38 billion in net sales

https://mynintendonews.com/2017/07/26/nintendo-returns-to-profit-thanks-to-nintendo-switch/

PlayStation: $160 million in operating profit out of revenue of $3.15 billion

http://comicbook.com/gaming/2017/08/01/playstation-4-sales-slump-gaming-profits-down-sony-earnings-report/

I'm not a business major, far from it. I believe profit and operating profit are two different things as are net sales and revenue so these figures are likely not directly comparable...

Also, are these for the same periods of time? I often hear about quarters and to this day, I'm not entirely sure what time periods these quarters span...

Seriously, this financial stuff just doesn't interest me much. I just hope the games I like are successful.

Turkish said:

Playstation has bigger brand recognition, do a representative poll worldwide and more people will know Playstation than Nintendo

So? Has a representative poll been done worldwide?

Turkish said:

from all my travels in Europe, Middle East and Asia Playstation was the most associated with gaming.

Your travels covered 3/4 of the world? You polled 5.6 billion people on this matter in your travels?

Turkish said:

It's been a continuously used name for over 20 years.

Over 30 years for Nintendo.

Turkish said:

Playstation makes big money and let others make big money, it's how 3rd parties survive. PSN until recently was making more money than all of Nintendo, that storefront alone is worth $.

This may be so but why is it that by the metric YOU brought up, Nintendo is currently valued more highly than PlayStation?

KLAMarine said:

That's a table from 2016, I believe. http://brandirectory.com/league_tables/table/global-500-2017 is showing something slightly different:

...

Nintendo's 355 to PlayStation's 479.

Why might this be?

Recall you stated before that

Turkish said:

If Sony spun off Playstation, it would be worth more than Nintendo alone.

Yeah they're for the same period, last quarter. I'm comparing operating income for both companies, which is exactly what those numbers are.

JWeinCom said:
Turkish said:

"In other words, pointing out that Sony's profits were a hundred million dollars or so more in one quarter is a pretty poor argument to show that Sony is more profitable or more popular." No one made that argument, the argument was that Playstation was more profitable and popular, not Sony. This interaction started whether a spun off Playstation would be worth more than Nintendo, as did the argument which company is worth more today. And about Nintendoes most popular console, of course I meant their fastest selling console.

Both my statements are correct. Playstation is indeed more profitable and popular as they sell more consoles and make more money, and Sony has a bigger market cap. Not sure what arguments need to be started here. You're right you don't need to hear about my travels, because you already know PS4 is indeed the best selling and most popular console on the maket, my anecdotes only explain Sony ain't lying.


Yeah, I used Sony when I meant playstation.  My bad.  I still have no idea how showing that the games/services division made more money in one quarter shows that they are more profitable.  That's like... not how business works. 

If you meant fastest selling, you should have said fastest selling... because that is not synonymous.  Either way it's completely irrelevant to the point you were making.  Again, Sony lost money as they launched the PS4.  So there's no reason to expect a launch to be a profitable time, or to expect that this will be the most profitable point of the switch's lifespan.

As I've said several times... market cap is not the value of a company...  Even if it were, Sony's market value is slightly higher than Nintendo's... that's all of Sony.  So unless every other Sony division is less than worthless (worth negative dollars) then I don't see how the playstation division can be worth more than Nintendo.

Playstation 4 is the most popular console on the market... which doesn't really have much to do with whether the Playstation division is worth more than Nintendo.  But yay for them, I guess?

Of course Sony ain't lying.  I'm sure Sony has people who know how to properly evaluate a company's worth, and wouldn't be saying these kinds of nonsensical things.  

Most popular console and fastest selling console mean the same thing in that context, it is factually the most popular console for the same timeframe. How else would you interpret that? That a console 4 months on the market is already their biggest selling, why would I ever claim that?

"So unless every other Sony division is less than worthless (worth negative dollars) then I don't see how the playstation division can be worth more than Nintendo"

Look at the Ebay situation, when they spun off Paypal, it overtook its parent company's market cap, now it's worth double.



S.T.A.G.E. on 26 August 2017
COKTOE said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Yes, but that is rare. Sony since the first PlayStation, to keep with the conventional media times have usually sold their consoles at a loss and the same goes for Microsoft. They gradually gain profit over time. Of course I am sure this gen they are both selling their consoles at a profit. The Xbox one x is not launching at a profit ... its essentially at cost, so it's more of the same. I don't find it wise to have a console that isn't profitable at mid gen.im guessing at the current state based on parts Sony is making a profit on the pro as well as the ps4.

Yep, I'm aware the selling hardware at a loss for an extended period is the norm. Thanks for confirming the PS4 was a bit of an outlier in that regard. Now that I have the time, been trying to find similar info on the PS1, which I believe also began to turn a profit on units sold relatively quickly. I know the PS2 took a while, and the PS3 took 4 years and a hardware revision. Ouch.

Yeah, you've got it. Hahah let me know about that PS1 info when you find it. Heh 



Aeolus451 on 26 August 2017

A dick measuring contest? Some of ya really need to learn how to not take this shit so seriously.

Anyway, If nintendo kept pumping out wii u after wii u then it would have easily become 3rd party or only created handhelds even if the company was still doing okay. A smart company will try to predict and adapt to the changing market before they're financially in trouble.



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Soundwave on 26 August 2017

Sony is not really the primary threat to Nintendo, it was always smartphones. Smartphones are basically what destroyed the Wii market and badly carved up the DS market, not Sony. Switch has found a good sized niche by allowing for "real" console style games on the go which differentiates it from smartphones moreso than the 3DS and it is finding its comfort zone in the industry as a result.

Where smartphones/tablets had cornered/oversaturated the market for so-called "casual games", Nintendo had to go and offer something better than just "well we have buttons on our portable, your smartphone doesn't have that". Introducing more console style premium gaming in a portable setting and the ability to also play seamlessly on the TV is the extra kick they needed to get away from the shadow of smart devices. 



JWeinCom on 26 August 2017
Turkish said:
StarDoor said:

 

 

How would PlayStation alone be worth more than Nintendo when Sony has five divisions that are more profitable than PlayStation, yet the overall market cap for all of Sony combined is only 5% higher than Nintendo?

Apparently, you must think that Sony could multiply its stock value by six times if all of its divisions split up into separate companies.

Also, saying that Sony sells more consoles is dubious, since the only timeframe for which that's true is the last 4 years:
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=230847&page=1

They've only sold more since the PS4 launched: In other words, they've sold more only when you look at Nintendo's worst generation and exclude the 3DS's best two years on top of that. During the fifth gen, Nintendo was ahead. During the sixth gen, Sony and Nintendo sold nearly equal amounts. During the seventh gen, Nintendo was significantly ahead. Only during the eighth gen has Sony been significantly ahead.

Saying Sony selling more consoles is not dubious lol, it's a fact. You don't need to go 5 or 10 years to claim otherwise. "nintendos worst generation" is an excuse, can also be said about "sony's worst generation".

KLAMarine said:

It's difficult for me: I'm not in the habit of looking up financial reports but going off of some recent articles, sounds like Nintendo has done pretty well:

Nintendo: $190 million in profit out of $1.38 billion in net sales

https://mynintendonews.com/2017/07/26/nintendo-returns-to-profit-thanks-to-nintendo-switch/

PlayStation: $160 million in operating profit out of revenue of $3.15 billion

http://comicbook.com/gaming/2017/08/01/playstation-4-sales-slump-gaming-profits-down-sony-earnings-report/

I'm not a business major, far from it. I believe profit and operating profit are two different things as are net sales and revenue so these figures are likely not directly comparable...

Also, are these for the same periods of time? I often hear about quarters and to this day, I'm not entirely sure what time periods these quarters span...

Seriously, this financial stuff just doesn't interest me much. I just hope the games I like are successful.

So? Has a representative poll been done worldwide?

Your travels covered 3/4 of the world? You polled 5.6 billion people on this matter in your travels?

Over 30 years for Nintendo.

This may be so but why is it that by the metric YOU brought up, Nintendo is currently valued more highly than PlayStation?

Why might this be?

Recall you stated before that

Yeah they're for the same period, last quarter. I'm comparing operating income for both companies, which is exactly what those numbers are.

JWeinCom said:


Yeah, I used Sony when I meant playstation.  My bad.  I still have no idea how showing that the games/services division made more money in one quarter shows that they are more profitable.  That's like... not how business works. 

If you meant fastest selling, you should have said fastest selling... because that is not synonymous.  Either way it's completely irrelevant to the point you were making.  Again, Sony lost money as they launched the PS4.  So there's no reason to expect a launch to be a profitable time, or to expect that this will be the most profitable point of the switch's lifespan.

As I've said several times... market cap is not the value of a company...  Even if it were, Sony's market value is slightly higher than Nintendo's... that's all of Sony.  So unless every other Sony division is less than worthless (worth negative dollars) then I don't see how the playstation division can be worth more than Nintendo.

Playstation 4 is the most popular console on the market... which doesn't really have much to do with whether the Playstation division is worth more than Nintendo.  But yay for them, I guess?

Of course Sony ain't lying.  I'm sure Sony has people who know how to properly evaluate a company's worth, and wouldn't be saying these kinds of nonsensical things.  

Most popular console and fastest selling console mean the same thing in that context, it is factually the most popular console for the same timeframe. How else would you interpret that? That a console 4 months on the market is already their biggest selling, why would I ever claim that?

"So unless every other Sony division is less than worthless (worth negative dollars) then I don't see how the playstation division can be worth more than Nintendo"

Look at the Ebay situation, when they spun off Paypal, it overtook its parent company's market cap, now it's worth double.

Most popular means most popular.  Fastest selling means fastest selling.  But that's literally the least important thing I said, so whatever.

When ebay sold paypal, their stock value dropped accordingly.  But the market cap of paypal alone wasn't more than ebay and paypal combined.  The overall market cap remained about the same, it's just that the paypal part was worth more. 

Unless the games division represents over 90% of Sony's market cap value, then there's no way it could be worth more than Nintendo if it was spun off.  I can't predict the future, so maybe it would be worth more somewhere down the line, but as of now, it's not worth as much as Nintendo.  Not even close.

Of course this is still relying on the faulty assumption that market cap is a company's value.  



KLAMarine on 26 August 2017
JWeinCom said:
KLAMarine said:

It's difficult for me: I'm not in the habit of looking up financial reports but going off of some recent articles, sounds like Nintendo has done pretty well:

Nintendo: $190 million in profit out of $1.38 billion in net sales

https://mynintendonews.com/2017/07/26/nintendo-returns-to-profit-thanks-to-nintendo-switch/

PlayStation: $160 million in operating profit out of revenue of $3.15 billion

http://comicbook.com/gaming/2017/08/01/playstation-4-sales-slump-gaming-profits-down-sony-earnings-report/

I'm not a business major, far from it. I believe profit and operating profit are two different things as are net sales and revenue so these figures are likely not directly comparable...

Also, are these for the same periods of time? I often hear about quarters and to this day, I'm not entirely sure what time periods these quarters span...

Seriously, this financial stuff just doesn't interest me much. I just hope the games I like are successful.

Operating profit means the profit that is made from core operations.

For example, I believe Nintendo sold their stakes in the mariners recently.  This would show up as a profit, since they made money, but it's not operating profit, because it's not part of their normal business.

Basically this is so investors can determine long term viability.  Nintendo isn't going to sell a baseball team every year, so if you were to invest in them, you probably wouldn't want to consider that very heavily.

 

Makes sense. Thanks.

For what it's worth, the stake in the Mariners was sold April of last year.

Turkish said:
KLAMarine said:

It's difficult for me: I'm not in the habit of looking up financial reports but going off of some recent articles, sounds like Nintendo has done pretty well:

Nintendo: $190 million in profit out of $1.38 billion in net sales

https://mynintendonews.com/2017/07/26/nintendo-returns-to-profit-thanks-to-nintendo-switch/

PlayStation: $160 million in operating profit out of revenue of $3.15 billion

http://comicbook.com/gaming/2017/08/01/playstation-4-sales-slump-gaming-profits-down-sony-earnings-report/

I'm not a business major, far from it. I believe profit and operating profit are two different things as are net sales and revenue so these figures are likely not directly comparable...

Also, are these for the same periods of time? I often hear about quarters and to this day, I'm not entirely sure what time periods these quarters span...

Seriously, this financial stuff just doesn't interest me much. I just hope the games I like are successful.

So? Has a representative poll been done worldwide?

Your travels covered 3/4 of the world? You polled 5.6 billion people on this matter in your travels?

Over 30 years for Nintendo.

This may be so but why is it that by the metric YOU brought up, Nintendo is currently valued more highly than PlayStation?

Why might this be?

Recall you stated before that

Yeah they're for the same period, last quarter. I'm comparing operating income for both companies, which is exactly what those numbers are.

So what do you make of Nintendo currently ranking higher than PlayStation on branddirectory.com, the metric you brought up?

KLAMarine said:
Turkish said:

4. one of the most valuable brands http://brandirectory.com/league_tables/table/global-500-2016

That's a table from 2016, I believe. http://brandirectory.com/league_tables/table/global-500-2017 is showing something slightly different:

...

Nintendo's 355 to PlayStation's 479.


DialgaMarine on 26 August 2017
Alkibiádēs said:
DialgaMarine said:
Is it beating PS4 though? Launch day, it had higher sales because it launched in more countries, including Japan.PS4 launched only in US and Canada, then Europe 2 weeks later, and then Japan about 4 months later. Once all was said and done though, PS4 had a very solid baseline and has been maintaining it ever since.

What does this have to do with the topic at hand?

 OP said Switch is surpassing PS4's launch window sales. Not trying to discredit Switch; just pointing out that I'm pretty sure that's false. 



0331 Happiness is a belt-fed weapon

Mr Puggsly on 26 August 2017
Pyro as Bill said:
Mr Puggsly said:

The bar has been going up and up on what expect from handheld games. Especially post PSP, 3DS, Vita, and smart devices. Over a decade ago we had console-esque GTA on a portable device.

While the Switch fills the void of a traditional home consoles, it was built for portability. Frankly, I'm happy all the major companies are basically focused on one device now and the traditional home console market is covered by MS, Sony, and technially PC.

Accessibility/simplicity, local multiplayer and dedicated controllers are the main differences between PC gaming and traditional home consoles. How is PC (or MS/Sony for that matter) covering home consoles better than Nintendo? Graphics?

They appeal to the average home console gamer better than Nintendo which is why has technically exited that arena.

Lets be blunt, Switch isnt getting the big 3rd party releases. I'd like to more on Switch but is the audience there yet if ever?



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