By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Zelda breath of the wild map bigger than Witcher 3 and Skyrim?

Wright said:
Miyamotoo said:

How you know that problem is here balance!? Do you realise that whole Great Plateau region from Demo is basically just a tutorial, where Links get familiar with mechanics, weapons, enemies, shrines...do you relly thing whole world is exatly same like Platue region!? Off course not, Link will find stronger weapons and armor, but also there will much stronger enemies and mini bosses, much harder shrines and dungeons... Even Guardians at Plateau with one shot take you if I saw correct 7 pieces of heart, Nintendo also said there a places on that you cant go if you are weak.

 

The problem with open-world games will always be balance, hence why I made a generalization, I was not just talking about Breath of the Wild. You can obviously try and tell me that progression system will work perfectly fine, but neither you or me know about that until we actually play the game. Zelda franchise has never been a very difficult one, and how Anouma wishes to punish or gratificate players should somewhat make the world scale with it or else, again, we'll face the problem that the open-world will become barren at one point, being nothing than an annoyance that stands in the middle between Link and his next destination.

We saw on Demo that game is full of possibilitys, we saw 8 hours of gameplay and people playing at E3 Demo of one region and yet people constantly doing and exploring totally new and different things, so many posibilites that game offers to player. Not to mention that towns, villages, NPCs and real dungeons were including from demo.

About difficulty, I hope they will include Hero Mode from start.



Around the Network
Wright said:
Miyamotoo said:

How you know that problem is here balance!? Do you realise that whole Great Plateau region from Demo is basically just a tutorial, where Links get familiar with mechanics, weapons, enemies, shrines...do you relly thing whole world is exatly same like Platue region!? Off course not, Link will find stronger weapons and armor, but also there will much stronger enemies and mini bosses, much harder shrines and dungeons... Even Guardians at Plateau with one shot take you if I saw correct 7 pieces of heart, Nintendo also said there a places on that you cant go if you are weak.

 

The problem with open-world games will always be balance, hence why I made a generalization, I was not just talking about Breath of the Wild. You can obviously try and tell me that progression system will work perfectly fine, but neither you or me know about that until we actually play the game. Zelda franchise has never been a very difficult one, and how Anouma wishes to punish or gratificate players should somewhat make the world scale with it or else, again, we'll face the problem that the open-world will become barren at one point, being nothing than an annoyance that stands in the middle between Link and his next destination.

So far the hours of game play that we've seen of BoTW doesn't suffer from any of these things you speak of and difficulty shouldn't even be a concern. What they've shown off thus far was a pretty complex combat, physics and Ai system more varied than most AAA games that do scripted hand holding story telling for everything.



Miyamotoo said:

We saw on Demo that game is full of possibilitys, we saw 8 hours of gameplay and people playing at E3 Demo of one region and yet people constantly doing and exploring totally new and different things, so many posibilites that game offers to player. Not to mention that towns, villages, NPCs and real dungeons were including from demo.

About difficulty, I hope they will include Hero Mode from start.

 

Ck1x said:

So far the hours of game play that we've seen of BoTW doesn't suffer from any of these things you speak of and difficulty shouldn't even be a concern. What they've shown off thus far was a pretty complex combat, physics and Ai system more varied than most AAA games that do scripted hand holding story telling for everything.

 

I've been saying from the start of this thread that in any open-world game, the first ten to twenty hours are nothing short of amazing. People explore every nook and cranny, and it is encouraged to go hoard as much as you can. Just like with Metal Gear Solid V, those first hours where the one where you inmersed yourself more in the world; right until Snake becomes overpowered, and then there's zero incentive to ever go back and explore.

You guys telling me that what we've seen so far should clear concerns is actually what creates concern: those are the first hours, of course everything is going to be great. Will you be doing the same thing over and over and over once you've gone past the twenty hours?



Wright said:

 

 

I've been saying from the start of this thread that in any open-world game, the first ten to twenty hours are nothing short of amazing. People explore every nook and cranny, and it is encouraged to go hoard as much as you can. Just like with Metal Gear Solid V, those first hours where the one where you inmersed yourself more in the world; right until Snake becomes overpowered, and then there's zero incentive to ever go back and explore.

You guys telling me that what we've seen so far should clear concerns is actually what creates concern: those are the first hours, of course everything is going to be great. Will you be doing the same thing over and over and over once you've gone past the twenty hours?

MGSV is not open world it's segemented with some large segments and it's nowhere near as big or as diverse as open world games and is not even comparable to BOTW. From the gameplay videos of the demo alone we know we can do a lot more in BOTW than in MGSV and that's just in the tutorial section, BOTW is an adventure game with sandbox and rpg elements while MGSV is a misson based action title.



Wright said:
Miyamotoo said:

We saw on Demo that game is full of possibilitys, we saw 8 hours of gameplay and people playing at E3 Demo of one region and yet people constantly doing and exploring totally new and different things, so many posibilites that game offers to player. Not to mention that towns, villages, NPCs and real dungeons were including from demo.

About difficulty, I hope they will include Hero Mode from start.

 

Ck1x said:

So far the hours of game play that we've seen of BoTW doesn't suffer from any of these things you speak of and difficulty shouldn't even be a concern. What they've shown off thus far was a pretty complex combat, physics and Ai system more varied than most AAA games that do scripted hand holding story telling for everything.

Just like with Metal Gear Solid V, those first hours where the one where you inmersed yourself more in the world; right until Snake becomes overpowered, and then there's zero incentive to ever go back and explore.

You guys telling me that what we've seen so far should clear concerns is actually what creates concern: those are the first hours, of course everything is going to be great. Will you be doing the same thing over and over and over once you've gone past the twenty hours?

Why you think it will be like Metal Gear Solid V!? We saw so many things and possibilities that game offer to player that MGSV doesn't. We saw just fragment of map and posibilitest that games offer to a player, later all be more far more complex and harder, like in evre other Zelda game.

You will not doing same thing over and over because you will get new abilities, new items, horse, glider, boat..you will have more complex shrines, dungeons, mountains, hills, forests, lakes, rivers...tougher enemies and mini bosses, towns, villages, NPCs, quests, colectibles, fishing, mini games, definitely more interactivity with world, more use of physics...fact is that all we saw in this E3 Demo is very impresive but thas is just a fragment of what game will offer to player, but you act like that is evrething that will offer to a player even only that is showed is pretty impresive.



Around the Network
Wyrdness said:

MGSV is not open world it's segemented with some large segments and it's nowhere near as big or as diverse as open world games and is not even comparable to BOTW. From the gameplay videos of the demo alone we know we can do a lot more in BOTW than in MGSV and that's just in the tutorial section, BOTW is an adventure game with sandbox and rpg elements while MGSV is a misson based action title.

 

But MGSV is open world. It's classified as such everywhere, even by the game itself:

 

The map's size of Afghanistan is 32% of the total GTA V area, and then there's the Africa map which is a bit smaller. Overall MGSV has a map that's the size of half GTA V. I would definitively call that open-world.

MGSV's narrative structure is mission based alright, but the gameplay itself allows for free-roaming. You can experiment different ways to tackle one objective or area, and while they're all nice on paper or the first time you're trying to do something weird (like taking an enemy camp using only decoys), you realize how poor the world is once you've invested enough in R&D and you just want to be done with it. That or making Pequod go faster to several places, which he never does.



Miyamotoo said:

Why you think it will be like Metal Gear Solid V!? We saw so many things and possibilities that game offer to player that MGSV doesn't. We saw just fragment of map and posibilitest that games offer to a player, later all be more far more complex and harder, like in evre other Zelda game.

You will not doing same thing over and over because you will get new abilities, new items, horse, glider, boat..you will have more complex shrines, dungeons, mountains, hills, forests, lakes, rivers...tougher enemies and mini bosses, towns, villages, NPCs, quests, colectibles, fishing, mini games, definitely more interactivity with world, more use of physics...fact is that all we saw in this E3 Demo is very impresive but thas is just a fragment of what game will offer to player, but you act like that is evrething that will offer to a player even only that is showed is pretty impresive.

 

Because the last game that advertised "so many possibilities" (i.e: Metal Gear Solid V) demonstrated that open-world areas don't mesh well with the overall structure of the game. You're saying the obvious of "you will get new things"; all I'm saying is that we should be concerned that with all those new gimmicks around, Anouma will make the world scale or else you'll be on an empty playground when all is said and done.

I mean, let's look at your NPC comment. NPCs are nice, but you interact with some like once or twice and be done with it. I never found myself speaking with anyone at Kakariko after the first time in OoT save for the windmill and the skulltulas guys. So the game might have 1,000 NPCs, that if they don't manage to scale them once certain events take place, the player will have zero desire to ever go back and interact with them. The same goes for everything else, really: it's cool to have new items, but if the world doesn't progress to allow room for all that item usage, then it's kind of wasted. Metal Gear Solid V gave the player hundreds of gadgets to play with, but then the enemies and enemy bases never really evolved, which made them moot or way too overpowered and broke the progression in favor of the player (which ironically made the open-world bad).



Wright said:
Miyamotoo said:

Why you think it will be like Metal Gear Solid V!? We saw so many things and possibilities that game offer to player that MGSV doesn't. We saw just fragment of map and posibilitest that games offer to a player, later all be more far more complex and harder, like in evre other Zelda game.

You will not doing same thing over and over because you will get new abilities, new items, horse, glider, boat..you will have more complex shrines, dungeons, mountains, hills, forests, lakes, rivers...tougher enemies and mini bosses, towns, villages, NPCs, quests, colectibles, fishing, mini games, definitely more interactivity with world, more use of physics...fact is that all we saw in this E3 Demo is very impresive but thas is just a fragment of what game will offer to player, but you act like that is evrething that will offer to a player even only that is showed is pretty impresive.

 

Because the last game that advertised "so many possibilities" (i.e: Metal Gear Solid V) demonstrated that open-world areas don't mesh well with the overall structure of the game. You're saying the obvious of "you will get new things"; all I'm saying is that we should be concerned that with all those new gimmicks around, Anouma will make the world scale or else you'll be on an empty playground when all is said and done.

I mean, let's look at your NPC comment. NPCs are nice, but you interact with some like once or twice and be done with it. I never found myself speaking with anyone at Kakariko after the first time in OoT save for the windmill and the skulltulas guys. So the game might have 1,000 NPCs, that if they don't manage to scale them once certain events take place, the player will have zero desire to ever go back and interact with them. The same goes for everything else, really: it's cool to have new items, but if the world doesn't progress to allow room for all that item usage, then it's kind of wasted. Metal Gear Solid V gave the player hundreds of gadgets to play with, but then the enemies and enemy bases never really evolved, which made them moot or way too overpowered and broke the progression in favor of the player (which ironically made the open-world bad).

But in BotW gameplay demo we already saw that all those things fits great in game structure that is shown to us. Demo part wasn't empty playground and definitely you have nothing to assume that other parts of maps will be empty, actually we already know that some things were cut down from Demo in order not to spoile game.

NPC and quests will definitely be more complex than those in first 3D Zelda game. Last 3D Zelda, Skyward Sword had solid NPCs and quests, but problem was they were all around Skyloft, but here we have huge world to explore. About items we already saw some abilities and items in BotW that will be used very often in game, so I dont see any problem with that.



Miyamotoo said:

But in BotW gameplay demo we already saw that all those things fits great in game structure that is shown to us. Demo part wasn't empty playground and definitely you have nothing to assume that other parts of maps will be empty, actually we already know that some things were cut down from Demo in order not to spoile game.

NPC and quests will definitely be more complex than those in first 3D Zelda game. Last 3D Zelda, Skyward Sword had solid NPCs and quests, but problem was they were all around Skyloft, but here we have huge world to explore. About items we already saw some abilities and items in BotW that will be used very often in game, so I dont see any problem with that.

 

You're not seeing this the way I'm explaining it. I'm not saying the map will be empty. I'm not saying any part of it will be barren by default. All I'm saying is there's the chance that it will become empty for the player once Link has progressed too much, depending on how Anouma chooses to scale the world to Link, if there's any scaling at all. That is what happened in Metal Gear Solid V. The open world had a lot of nice places to go and explore, with content and things to acquire. Once you became too powerful and had a lot of gear and items? It made zero sense going back. All you wanted was to complete the mission and just be done with the world.

Let's look at this from a different angle. That second paragraph your wrote, is that a fact or is it something you'd love to happen? Because if it is the later, then there's always room for concern. You never know what Anouma will pull out, just what you'd hope him to do.



Wright said:
Miyamotoo said:

But in BotW gameplay demo we already saw that all those things fits great in game structure that is shown to us. Demo part wasn't empty playground and definitely you have nothing to assume that other parts of maps will be empty, actually we already know that some things were cut down from Demo in order not to spoile game.

NPC and quests will definitely be more complex than those in first 3D Zelda game. Last 3D Zelda, Skyward Sword had solid NPCs and quests, but problem was they were all around Skyloft, but here we have huge world to explore. About items we already saw some abilities and items in BotW that will be used very often in game, so I dont see any problem with that.

 

You're not seeing this the way I'm explaining it. I'm not saying the map will be empty. I'm not saying any part of it will be barren by default. All I'm saying is there's the chance that it will become empty for the player once Link has progressed too much, depending on how Anouma chooses to scale the world to Link, if there's any scaling at all. That is what happened in Metal Gear Solid V. The open world had a lot of nice places to go and explore, with content and things to acquire. Once you became too powerful and had a lot of gear and items? It made zero sense going back. All you wanted was to complete the mission and just be done with the world.

Let's look at this from a different angle. That second paragraph your wrote, is that a fact or is it something you'd love to happen? Because if it is the later, then there's always room for concern. You never know what Anouma will pull out, just what you'd hope him to do.

Again, I cant we cant compare at all MGSV i Zelda BotW, beacuse BotW offers so many difrent things, posbilites and interacations that MGSV doesnt, just this E3 Demo showed how much more posiblites and things you have in game compred to MGSV.

Also again, you progressing with more powerful Link, but world also has parts outside Great Plateau where enemies and mini bosses are much powerful, much more complex shrines and dungeons, quests, puzzles...so if for instance you were weak or didn't had some ability or item in some point of game for some part of world, later you can go back when you are more powerfule or you have some new ability that is required.

No, second paragraph is based on actuale last 3D Zelda instead of first 3D Zelda and things Nintendo actually said about this Zelda. There is no single reason to think they will make characters and quests for new Zelda like they were in first 3D Zelda while completely ignoring last 3D Zelda or for instance Majora's Mask.