By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Movies & TV - J.J. Abrams responds to criticism over TFA being a rip-off of A New Hope

sabvre42 said:
kurasakiichimaru said:


That' like being angry over someone being born beautiful because genetics. I think bothered is a much softer word that you should be looking for. It's not a good look to be angry at woman with actual power, after all.

They are aliens who knows what they really are and the force isn't real anyway so why involve science anyway in the most fictional way to probably to rip off of one of those bible stories.

It's not like the force requires you to recite incantations to produce electrical bolts anyway or master a certain hand wave to do a jedi mind trick. Or go to a school to learn spells. What's so mystic about jedi training anyway besides battling your demons and meditation. People dont need that if you are already a stable person as you are. tHat.s like going to church because you want to attain the highest level of spirituality and yet still comes back home saying and doing the same evil things you always do.

Again, you have not played the games. You have not read the books. You clearly do not star wars lore. 

I'm seriously starting to feel that you are one of those people that wants a female link in the next Zelda - just because. Instead of creating a new intellectual property/ universe -- they take an existing one and change it to fit feminism.

I'm all for powerful females in gaming and video -- including non sexualized ones. Take Sword Art Online -- My favorite character in the whole anime is Sinon. Because shes a real character that shows inner strength; the lack of a princess complex and even when she falls into the Kirito harem, she still has a brain and can stand to be alone.



You clearly are stubborn though considering the star wars games and the expanded universe are basically.non canon at this present time. I just go with what's officially deemed as canon and you should too. Honestly, the films already are gaping holes of inconsitency and you also add the games. What a mess. Haha

Lol at me asking for a female lInk when I don't even stan for Zelda haha. Honestly stop feeding me with your voice, I have my own identity and considering the most that I asked for Star Wars prequels and George Lucas was the female jedis to slay harder and die heroically not that Aayla Secura BS kind of death. Just crazy. I never even thought of a female protagonist so you need to stop bunching me with other people. I wasn't creative enough to know beforehand Rey is gonna work as the main.

Honestly that female anime character you like is basically Rey,shows.inner strength, lack of princess complex, almost became Han Solo's crewmate but decline because of her reasons.and she can work alone.

I really have no idea why you have such anger in your heart for her.



Around the Network
AbbathTheGrim said:
Soundwave said

So where does Anakin's training come from. He's the only human who can race pods at like 500 mph? He meditated and was taught to do this? 

In martial arts I can train for 10 minutes and then be able to win a fight with my eyes closed? This is basically what Luke does. 

And no, the Force isn't "martial arts mastery" and it's certainly the lay-man's "nerds" version of martial arts (ie: the guys who think martial arts "power" is represented by belt color). 

Those are people who are too into the freaking video games and dorky Dungeons & Dragons aspect of the franchise. 

I always thought that control of the Force and lightsaber/martial skills are separate things.

But it would seem like knowing the Force can heighten your skills, at least above the average person, above to how your skills would be if you had not affinity to the Force.

From my understanding its always been the enhanced reflexes + battle flow that the force affinity imparts. But yes - it still required actual training to wield it properly.





Soundwave said:
sabvre42 said:

Actually the force IS just that. Its essentially martial arts mastery. The user through intense training, mediation, and control learns how to channel the force to do their bidding.

They do not just hit puberty and have the ability to manipulate the universe instantly.



 

So where does Anakin's training come from. He's the only human who can race pods at like 500 mph? Forget puberty he's already doing amazing things in grade freaking school. He meditated and was taught to do this? 

In martial arts I can train for 10 minutes and then be able to win a fight with my eyes closed? This is basically what Luke does. He saves the galaxy, special trainnig my ass. Even the the time line for this is wildly inconsistent, in Empire he's shown to be basically a novice Jedi, he trains with Yoda for what is basically like ... one week? Two weeks? Then ROTJ is six whopping months later and now he's basically a "master" who can beat Darth Vader fairly easily. 

And no, the Force isn't "martial arts mastery" and it's certainly the lay-man's "nerds" version of martial arts (ie: the guys who think martial arts "power" is represented by belt color). 

Those are people who are too into the freaking video games and dorky Dungeons & Dragons aspect of the franchise. 

So wait...You're having problems with Luke training with one of the most powerful Jedis for a few weeks, then perfecting what he has learned for 6 months, and defeating Darth Vader (who the OG trilogy never made out to be Jedi Jesus), yet are excusing someone learning top level Jedi powers on her own in a couple of days?  Yea, that's consistent.

Also, don't call people dorks when you're posting on a video game sales forum.  Not even just a video game forum, but a freaking sales site.  That's probably one of the dorkiest things ever.  We're all dorks here.



I think people are overplaying Rey's abilities.

Kylo Ren is pretty unstable and not really powerful yet. When he tried to read her mind he clearly fucked up and gave her a glimpse of his own mind. She could probably have gotten a lot of force knowledge of sense out of that.



I LOVE ICELAND!

Pretty sure Soundwave is just pointing out how the other Star Wars protagonists have had the same "issues" Rey has, and the inconsistencies in the views of other people with those examples.



Around the Network
thismeintiel said:
Soundwave said:
sabvre42 said:

Actually the force IS just that. Its essentially martial arts mastery. The user through intense training, mediation, and control learns how to channel the force to do their bidding.

They do not just hit puberty and have the ability to manipulate the universe instantly.



 

So where does Anakin's training come from. He's the only human who can race pods at like 500 mph? Forget puberty he's already doing amazing things in grade freaking school. He meditated and was taught to do this? 

In martial arts I can train for 10 minutes and then be able to win a fight with my eyes closed? This is basically what Luke does. He saves the galaxy, special trainnig my ass. Even the the time line for this is wildly inconsistent, in Empire he's shown to be basically a novice Jedi, he trains with Yoda for what is basically like ... one week? Two weeks? Then ROTJ is six whopping months later and now he's basically a "master" who can beat Darth Vader fairly easily. 

And no, the Force isn't "martial arts mastery" and it's certainly the lay-man's "nerds" version of martial arts (ie: the guys who think martial arts "power" is represented by belt color). 

Those are people who are too into the freaking video games and dorky Dungeons & Dragons aspect of the franchise. 

So wait...You're having problems with Luke training with one of the most powerful Jedis for a few weeks, then perfecting what he has learned for 6 months, and defeating Darth Vader (who the OG trilogy never made out to be Jedi Jesus), yet are excusing someone learning top level Jedi powers on her own in a couple of days?  Yea, that's consistent.

Also, don't call people dorks when you're posting on a video game sales forum.  Not even just a video game forum, but a freaking sales site.  That's probably one of the dorkiest things ever.  We're all dorks here.

I don't have any problems with any of it. That's my point. The Force is a mystical concept and Rey is very obviously some type of "chosen one" (ie: Neo in the Matrix, Luke in the OT, Anakin kind of in the prequels, Harry Potter in the Harry Potter movies). These characters basically all have "latent" abilities that make them tremendously special and can do things with no/little training that other characters in their universe would needs years to do or will never be able to do. 

This is fairly basic character archetype that's used over and over again. If you're going to single out one and pick on it, then you have to pick on your other so-called sacred cows too. 

And I very clearly laid out several examples in the OT and PT of unbelievable, silly things that can happen to characters with little/no training, so please spare me the "oh it's only The Force Awakens that does this!". Hardly. 

Which leads to believe that maybe some of the sexism claims may have merit. If Rey had a penis and looked like this:

Typical male sci-fi "desert scavenger bad-ass"

I doubt this is even half the uproar. I do think it is a stick up some people's asses that it happens to be a young woman character that's cast in the role they traditionally would assume or associate with a man and that's part of the problem they have with it at some level. Rey is a "girl" who is too powerful and too masculine and it has to be explained to them, especially because she makes a fool of the "bad ass" male character at the end of the film (never mind that he's clearly not trying to kill her). 



thismeintiel said:
Soundwave said:
sabvre42 said:

Actually the force IS just that. Its essentially martial arts mastery. The user through intense training, mediation, and control learns how to channel the force to do their bidding.

They do not just hit puberty and have the ability to manipulate the universe instantly.



 

So where does Anakin's training come from. He's the only human who can race pods at like 500 mph? Forget puberty he's already doing amazing things in grade freaking school. He meditated and was taught to do this? 

In martial arts I can train for 10 minutes and then be able to win a fight with my eyes closed? This is basically what Luke does. He saves the galaxy, special trainnig my ass. Even the the time line for this is wildly inconsistent, in Empire he's shown to be basically a novice Jedi, he trains with Yoda for what is basically like ... one week? Two weeks? Then ROTJ is six whopping months later and now he's basically a "master" who can beat Darth Vader fairly easily. 

And no, the Force isn't "martial arts mastery" and it's certainly the lay-man's "nerds" version of martial arts (ie: the guys who think martial arts "power" is represented by belt color). 

Those are people who are too into the freaking video games and dorky Dungeons & Dragons aspect of the franchise. 

So wait...You're having problems with Luke training with one of the most powerful Jedis for a few weeks, then perfecting what he has learned for 6 months, and defeating Darth Vader (who the OG trilogy never made out to be Jedi Jesus), yet are excusing someone learning top level Jedi powers on her own in a couple of days?  Yea, that's consistent.

Also, don't call people dorks when you're posting on a video game sales forum.  Not even just a video game forum, but a freaking sales site.  That's probably one of the dorkiest things ever.  We're all dorks here.

 

I think you're missing the point. I'm saying ALL of that stuff is wildly inconsistent, singling out Rey for doing it is silly if you're willing to give Anakin and Luke a pass. 

This is a fairly basic character fantasy archetype in storytelling anyway, acting like JJ Abrams some how invented it for this film is incredibly silly. 

The "dorks" analogy is more about a portion of the Star Wars fan base that tries to quantify everything in the movies to some kind of "level" so that it makes sense to them, because the concept of the Force is too mystical/spirtual (and in a sense they miss the damn point). The original conception of the Force straight from A New Hope is:

Ben Kenobi: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.

Luke Skywalker: You mean it controls your actions?

Kenobi: Partially, but it also obeys your commands.

He doesn't say:

Kenobi: It's like a video game where you need to power-up to learn how to do all types of crazy things like Force pushes, Force jumps, mind-tricks, have giant Jedi boner. One day Luke you'll be a platinum belt Jedi! But it will take years and years of training". 

What Obi-Wan says in the original Star Wars falls well in line with The Force Awakens.



Soundwave said:
thismeintiel said:

So wait...You're having problems with Luke training with one of the most powerful Jedis for a few weeks, then perfecting what he has learned for 6 months, and defeating Darth Vader (who the OG trilogy never made out to be Jedi Jesus), yet are excusing someone learning top level Jedi powers on her own in a couple of days?  Yea, that's consistent.

Also, don't call people dorks when you're posting on a video game sales forum.  Not even just a video game forum, but a freaking sales site.  That's probably one of the dorkiest things ever.  We're all dorks here.

I don't have any problems with any of it. That's my point. The Force is a mystical concept and Rey is very obviously some type of "chosen one" (ie: Neo in the Matrix, Luke in the OT, Anakin kind of in the prequels, Harry Potter in the Harry Potter movies). These characters basically all have "latent" abilities that make them tremendously special and can do things with no/little training that other characters in their universe would needs years to do or will never be able to do. 

This is fairly basic character archetype that's used over and over again. If you're going to single out one and pick on it, then you have to pick on your other so-called sacred cows too. 

And I very clearly laid out several examples in the OT and PT of unbelievable, silly things that can happen to characters with little/no training, so please spare me the "oh it's only The Force Awakens that does this!". Hardly. 

Which leads to believe that maybe some of the sexism claims may have merit. If Rey had a penis and looked like this:

Typical male sci-fi "desert scavenger bad-ass"

I doubt this is even half the uproar. I do think it is a stick up some people's asses that it happens to be a young woman character that's cast in the role they traditionally would assume or associate with a man and that's part of the problem they have with it at some level. Rey is a "girl" who is too powerful and too masculine and it has to be explained to them, especially because she makes a fool of the "bad ass" male character at the end of the film (never mind that he's clearly not trying to kill her). 

Please.  I would have the exact same issues if Rey was a man, as would others who are bothered by her 2 day near mastering of the Force.  In fact, it would be moved to the Top 3 in the laundry list of what is wrong with the prequels if Anakin was doing the exact same things as Rey at the end of Ep1.  The only reason people use sexism is because it's the easy out of an argument they are losing.  You have nothing to back up your argument other than you are just fine with it.  It still remains it makes no sense given the previous films, even the poor prequels, yet you are fine with it.  I guess that's fine if you are.  But, don't have such poor excuses to cover up lazy, rushed writing.  Especially when you are scrapping the bottom of the barrel with the sexism argument.  It's become the new race card.  Overplayed.





Some things, no matter how flawed, are easy to overlook. Some things, while equally (or even less flawed) just jump out at you. You don't want to nitpick them but you just can't ignore them.

That's my experience with TFA. I pretty much agree with Nostalgia Critic and his video.... but I also agree with his other video on Channel Awesome that he made right after the movie.



thismeintiel said:

Please.  I would have the exact same issues if Rey was a man, as would others who are bothered by her 2 day near mastering of the Force.  In fact, it would be moved to the Top 3 in the laundry list of what is wrong with the prequels if Anakin was doing the exact same things as Rey at the end of Ep1.  The only reason people use sexism is because it's the easy out of an argument they are losing.  You have nothing to back up your argument other than you are just fine with it.  It still remains it makes no sense given the previous films, even the poor prequels, yet you are fine with it.  I guess that's fine if you are.  But, don't have such poor excuses to cover up lazy, rushed writing.  Especially when you are scrapping the bottom of the barrel with the sexism argument.  It's become the new race card.  Overplayed.

 

You're overestimating what Rey did at the end of the movie. Resisting a little mind reading, toying with some random Stormtrooper's mind, partially defeating a wounded evil dude. That's just the beginning of her journey. Also, I don't think anyone's playing the sexism card here, as no one's claiming you are inherently sexist because you don't like Rey. People are judging her differently because she's a woman, and that is a fact.