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Forums - Movies & TV - J.J. Abrams responds to criticism over TFA being a rip-off of A New Hope

Dr.Henry_Killinger said

You're exaggerating how proficient she is, she stopped Kylo on accident, neither of them knew she had the force, so Kylo didn't expect any kind of resitance.

"You need a teacher! I could show you the way to the Force..." said Kylo Ren to Rey as they clashed lightsabers.



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NightDragon83 said:

And Luke was already established as a decent pilot who could "bullseye womprats with his T-16" before joining the rebels' attack on the Death Star... it's not like he took the helm of the Millenum Falcon in ANH and within 5 minutes could basically replace the roles of Han and Chewie on the ship in terms of both piloting and maintaining / repairing it.

He just said he could do it and then did it (when the only thing he did prior saving the day and maybe the universe was drive a pathetic land vehicle), that's pretty lazy writing. Rey was actually shown fending for herself and fighting off those thugs with her staff. She also lived alone, not under the shelter a nice loving family, so it's clear she had a wide set of abilities needed to live in a junkyard. It's not like she was just lying there in her nice dress waiting for a white tough male to come and grab her by the hand to become a lesser character. She's the freaking protagonist of this trilogy, the sooner you deal with it the better. 



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

I posted NC because he made a good point at the end, I disagree with his entire review.

The originals, the prequels, and the new trilogy are obviously coming in at different eras and different circumstances. Who the fuck cares that it was like the old ones, the last move came out a decade ago, the first one came out 4 decades ago. It's basically a reboot rather than a continuation anyway. Cause Star Wars isn't aimed for just those who watched the previous ones. After the prequels, how is playing it safe unreasonable? Please. And FYI, I've never complained about remakes, not even TLOU RE. Yeah story wise it was weak, but it had better acting then prequels and better effects than the original.

 

You keep saying Rey mastered the force, when all she did was beat a wounded sith in training who got shot by a laser cannon and was already established as being weak in the force.

You're exaggerating how proficient she is, she stopped Kylo on accident, neither of them knew she had the force, so Kylo didn't expect any kind of resitance.

I conceded that there was some lazy writing, but your acting like its was impossible for Rey to display any of the force power just because she wasn't trained.

Kylo, while being an emo pussy bitch -- was NOT weak in the force.

He singlehandedly caused Luke to exile himself due to whatever terrible shit he did; as well as was able to stop and hold a blaster projectile mid air for several minutes while continueing to carry on other conversations.

People KEEP saying that Ren is obviously Luke Skywalker's daughter... while if thats true and for some stupid reason the cause of her force affinity... then Kylo should be JUST as strong. Both are 1/4 Anakin.

But i mean ... lets totally forget the whole part about Kylo being trained by Luke (and not being abandoned on a desert planet) before being trained by a sith lord for multiple years.



AbbathTheGrim said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said

You're exaggerating how proficient she is, she stopped Kylo on accident, neither of them knew she had the force, so Kylo didn't expect any kind of resitance.

"You need a teacher! I could show you the way to the Force..." said Kylo Ren to Rey as they clashed lightsabers.

Obviously she didn't need a teacher... cause Disney!





Well, look at it on the bright side, people. At least Rey didn't start singing and throwing force pushes all around her as coreography.



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sabvre42 said:
AbbathTheGrim said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said

You're exaggerating how proficient she is, she stopped Kylo on accident, neither of them knew she had the force, so Kylo didn't expect any kind of resitance.

"You need a teacher! I could show you the way to the Force..." said Kylo Ren to Rey as they clashed lightsabers.

Obviously she didn't need a teacher... cause Disney!



 

Don't play the Disney card here. Not when the original trilogy had a Princess and the prequels had a fart joke as a major character.



gatito said:
sabvre42 said:

Obviously she didn't need a teacher... cause Disney!



 

Don't play the Disney card here. Not when the original trilogy had a Princess and the prequels had a fart joke as a major character.

Can you make a more classic Strawman argument?

I complain about TFA and you attack TPM.....



I don't really want to go in-depth with a character study of Rey in VGC given that I've already written more than one analysis of the film as well as responses to the typical complaints offered by contrarians and nit-pickers, but what we essentially appear to have is the Chosen One as last seen with Anakin Skywalker.

Anakin was to bring balance to the Force by destroying the Jedi Order, which much like the Old Republic, had become too large, bureaucratic and judging by the way a single individual was able to orchestrate their destruction, too ineffective.

Rey appears to be the Force response to the growing imbalance represented by the First Order and Snoke. She is the Chosen One who represents the light.

In contrast to Luke, her background was 15+ years of self taught survival school in a harsh environment where she had to adapt or die. She learns hand to hand combat skills out of necessity that are routinely tested (the film makes a point of showing this to viewers). Luke had no combat skills save as a pilot (shooting animals with his T-16 and presumably also with a rifle) by contrast. Star Wars makes a point of this when he is knocked out by a Tusken; he has no close combat skills. And again in Mos Eisley where Ponda Baba knocks him out with a shove. It's not until Obi-Wan starts drilling Luke that he appears to know anything about close combat.

Luke lives on a farm and can pilot speeders and a T-16 which presumably has uses beyond fighter training on a moisture farm (surveying territory and vaporators) so we know he can fly and he likes to hot rod and race, and shoot things like a lot of farm boys would.

Rey doesn't know how to shoot anything, arguably the one gripe I've yet to hear anyone complain about. When she is handed a blaster for the first time by Han, she forgets about the safety the first time she attempts to shoot (first time ever seen in Star Wars) misses her first shot and then scores a lethal hit, center of mass, one handed with her second shot ever. And every Stormtrooper in the Galaxy has egg on their face. Again.

And yet, people focus on the other things more easily explained.

The Millennium Falcon. Rey has piloting experience. She flies quad jumpers, speeders and unknown to viewers, she's had flight simulation training, salvaged from Imperial equipment that she used during the 15+ years of evenings spent alone. She's been on the Falcon. She's very familiar with the modifications made to it by Unkar. She knows where everything is and knows the start up sequence of the ship. The only thing she doesn't have is practical, real world flight time on the Falcon, which hasn't flown in years.

The film makes a point of showing this as she proceeds to smash into everything on a simple take off before the TIE fighters start shooting, and at that point, once again Rey is in a OTJ do or die situation, something she's very familiar with as a survivalist.

The Force ability stuff is not quite as interesting to pick apart, or rather I should specify the complaints regarding them aren't that fun to pick apart, but a one minute shoot down would be like this.

Force Mind Tricks come naturally to those strong with the Force ("She's untrained, but she doesn't know how strong she is with the Force") and only work on the weak minded. There is no Jedi Mind Tricks 101 class at the Jedi Temple which would be pretty nefarious for an Order dedicated to good. Apparently you have it (Luke, Obi-Wan, Rey) or you don't.

Telekinesis. Luke doesn't have it in ANH but does in ESB. Massive head trauma, concussion, pulls it off. But it's three years later and Luke has had time to read and learn although no direct tutelage until he meets Yoda. Except in ANH didn't he use the Force to guide two proton torpedoes into an exhaust shaft? Two shots take a 90 degree turn into an outgoing exhaust stream (it's not an intake that sucks in empty space), nothing but net. He used the Force to telekinetically guide two torpedoes directly on target. With no telekinetic training. It came naturally to him.

Besides, did Maz Kinata say that lightsaber itself was calling to Rey as if it wanted to go to her? It spoke to her upon first contact and at this point, it's almost as though this inanimate object has a will of its own like the Excalibur it has come to represent.





AbbathTheGrim said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said

You're exaggerating how proficient she is, she stopped Kylo on accident, neither of them knew she had the force, so Kylo didn't expect any kind of resitance.

"You need a teacher! I could show you the way to the Force..." said Kylo Ren to Rey as they clashed lightsabers.

which was after she stopped him from reading his mind.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

NightDragon83 said:

Leia isn't really that strong of a character???  Somebody need to go back and re-watch A New Hope and Empire...

At the beginning of ANH, she's established as not just your typical "damsel in distress" princess, but a political leader of the Rebellion who remains defiant against Vader and the Empire to the (would be) bitter end, refusing to give up the location of the rebel base even as they threaten her home planet with annihilation (something that "stronge male character" Po did when being interrogated by Kylo Ren to give up the location of the map to Luke in Episode VII); she helps Luke Han and Chewie out of a jam when they get cornered in the detention block; she then resumes her role as one of the leaders of the Rebel Alliance during the attack on the Death Star and later the battle on Hoth - recall her scene on Hoth laying out the battle plans to all the male speeder pilots and fighters... I'm sure alot of sexist fanboys were butthurt about all the men taking orders from a woman too /sarc; and then aiding in the attempted rescue of Han on Cloud City and later back at Jabba's palace, where she single handedly murdered the big slob himself.

But yeah, she's completely helpless without a man by her side and is just there for the "amusement" of the male audience.  Totally a minor character in the grand scheme of things.

As for comparing Rey's actions in VII to that of 8 year old Anakin's in Episode I... you're not doing yourself any favors by comparing the latest SW film to arguably the worst in the series, one of the many reasons it earns the title being of course the "character" of Young Anakin and the ridiculousness of the plot itself.

And Luke was already established as a decent pilot who could "bullseye womprats with his T-16" before joining the rebels' attack on the Death Star... it's not like he took the helm of the Millenum Falcon in ANH and within 5 minutes could basically replace the roles of Han and Chewie on the ship in terms of both piloting and maintaining / repairing it.

 

She is a good character, but she is *literally* a damsel in distress in the first film (she is a princess who is held captive and needs to be rescued). Her character does not challenge or violate any "gender stereotype". She knows her role in the films right down to the metal bikini, she is a tertirary character. Sure she has a sassy attitude, but that isn't anything mind blowing. As such her character doesn't really challenge any type of pre-existing notion within the genre type. 

Rey is different in that she assumes the role of the central character of this trilogy which is traditionally held by a man ... and sure, I think some people deep down have a problem with that. 

Regarding Anakin in Episode I, I don't have any problem with him having some exceptional abilities when we first meet. Of the 1038383 problems The Phantom Menace has, that is about the least of them. I'm just point out the hypocrisy of being OK with that and not Rey. 

Rey does have piloting experience by the way and she was working on the Falcon. I don't think all these things need to be explicitly spelt out in the film though. The Falcon is just a ship, it's not some magical propietary technology, it's like being amazed a person could drive a car in our universe.