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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Videos games SHOULD NOT be difficult... (It hurts the Video Game)

Tropical Freeze is average difficulty for the era I grew up with, the 4th gen.
From what I've played of the 3rd gen, Tropical Freeze would have been unusually easy by the standards of games back then.
It only seems difficult today because games have grown gradually easier over the years.



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Nintation360 said:

Mega Man experience

I bought a Mega Man game for the first time so I can try it out. I played it and MAN IT WAS HARD. I searched up the game online if it was difficult or not, the casual players thought it to be very hard while the hardcore mega man fans said it was one of the easiest. After this I decided NOT TO EVER BUY ANOTHER MEGA MAN GAME AGAIN. (Fuck you Capcom you lost a customer who could've bought all mega man games BUT  it was too hard, its your fault)

I can remember how french videogame journalists complained about Megaman 2 and 3 being too easy. Standards really have changed a lot it seems.            

And NO "CHALLENGING" IS NOT FUN.

"New and challenging courses!!" FUCK NO, that's not fun at all, going through stress, sweat and tears is NOT fun. 

Challenges can be very much fun. Else no one would even care about achievements because no one would unlock them, and games like super meat boy and the different Kaizo games or the bullet hell spaceshooters wouldn't have any fans. In fact, easy can be pretty boring and thus not entertaining at all, too.

Stress can KILL you. 

Having too much stress in your day can lead to heart attacks, strokes and other boy problems.

Here's the thing though: you can pause or quit a game any time you need or want if you feel too stressed. 

 How a difficult game hurts the franchise

Imagine how many sales DK, Mega Man and 2D Mario would've got if it wasn't difficult? Well look now: Donkey Kong's latest game only sold a million copies, Mega Man is a dead franchise(LOL serves you right for being too hard)  and NSMBU didn't do well like it's past games.

I'm pretty sure making these games easier would have an even worse effect on their sales. You never heard of "Nintendo Hard", do you? Nintendo is pretty well known to make their games pretty challenging. Kirby's Epic Yarn actually got bashed because it wasn't anything near Nintendo Hard, and, like I said earlier, so did Megaman 2 and 3 when they came out in the 90's

What's the point of making a game when you cant even beat it? SERIOUSLY?!

Give me a damn point why this exists?! NO POINT AT ALL.

Give me a damn point why games exists who present no challenge at all? That's so boring it's not even entertaining anymore.

  Difficult games creates ALOT of criticism AND rips people off of your money

Now here I have to wholehardly disagree. An easy game is a ripoff, since you can finish it way too easely and soon, thus losing it's appeal way too quickly. A difficult game will take much longer to finish, meaning you play more for the same amount of money. How this can be a ripoff is seriously beyond be          

SOLUTION

 Add a "Easy mode"

Add LOTS of checkpoints so we don't have to do the same damn thing over again.

NO WATER LEVELS

Not too many enemies

Make boss fights short

If you're going to make a stupid motion control game, PLEASE make it optional or else you'll ruin your game (Legend of Zelda: Crappy motion controls) 

FIX your damn controls

PLEASE DONT make us wait long for YOUR poor work's game to load (Grand Theft Loading V)     

MAKE SURE your game doesn't lag all the time (Super Lag Bros for Wii U/3DS) 

Most importantly: PLEASE LET US SKIP THE LEVEL IF WE CAN'T BEAT IT. 

Facepalm X2 combo! Apart from the fixing the controls (load times are dependent from Level and texture size compared to RAM, so unless you downgrade the game visually you can't do much here, and the lags are dependent on your internet connection, nothing the game can change), most of these examples get heavy flak when in a game from gamers and critics alike. Yoshi's Woohly World got critizised when annouced that it will have an easy mode with unlimited flight capability, Super Mario 3D World for it's golden catsuit, Fire Emblem when a dead character wasn't lost forever anymore and Nintendo in general when they papented a thing which would allow ingame help several years ago.

Long story short, many gamers actually do prefer have some challenge, just like many moviegoers prefer more intellectual productions instead of summer blockbusters where you can shut down your brain like in so many Hollywood popcorn movies. These games might be too difficult for you, but assuming this would be universal is just very wrong. Special note also goes to the games you've chosen, as many of them have a history of being challenging series, so you could have found out these games would not be your type from the get-go.





I beat Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze in 9 hours and only had difficulties on one stage... soooo. I think this one is just a patience thing. And if you don't have patience for it, it seems longer and harder than it actually is.

Also, depending on the game, it should be a medium difficulty with extras being the harder missions.
In RPG games, action and strategy games though, I believe there should be a difficulty option.



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A game being difficult is not because a developer is incompetent like your rant seems to suggest.
If you struggle to play games that have any amount of difficulty, and it encourages you to rage I suggest you playing some easy games where you cannot die, like Kirby's Epic Yarn.

Some kids games would probably be good too, or you could just get a new hobby that doesn't cause you to freak out over such trivial things.



True and they are too long too, I start playing dark soul 2 and before you know it the witcher is out, so I switch to that I play and I play, to no avail. One day I wake up too find that metal gear solid 5 is out and guess what, before I can even see the main screen of that game, fallout 4 is out. I pray to god every day that he will permit me to finish fallout and maybe one day I'll get to finish these other games.



Bet reminder: I bet with Tboned51 that Splatoon won't reach the 1 million shipped mark by the end of 2015. I win if he loses and I lose if I lost.

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Alright gonna try my best to make a counter point as you did put forth quite a bit of effort making that post I'm gonna try and address each topic you bring up.

1. Honestly I am with you on the topic of tropical freeze a bit as I found the game to be difficult at parts cause I couldn't quite grasp the levels gimmick correctly and it would make me feel as if the developers were laughing at me since I couldn't pass some challenges. Now having said that I feel like Donkey kong might have been a somewhat bad choice as a topic to have this discussion on as the game is very aware of its own difficulty level and offers you a choice of just plain skipping levels if you die enough to avoid frustration. Now before anyone comes in and says "BUT THAT'S THE LOSERS WAY OUT CANT LET THE GAEMZ PLAY THEMSELVES" it isn't it's just offering you the choice of skipping a level that you may find frustrating and giving you the chance to see the rest of the game. I feel like this should have been a mechanic you took advantage of during your play through as it would have eliminated a lot of stress on those levels you just cant beat. Unless you couldn't find a level you actually did enjoy in which case ya trash that shit.

2. See I feel like this is where the Megaman community fails to explain why they enjoy it as much as they do and why they find it easy. See classic Megaman is designed around the idea that you will remember the stages layout where the enemies are placed and what each one does. It's a game more or less built for people to enjoy beating multiple times as the first play through will be the hardest and subsequent play through will become easier and easier with the more and more knowledge you acquire with each play through. Which is something most megaman fans remember to explain to people but the hardcore Megaman fans have been playing for decades and forget how difficult peoples first Megaman can be regardless of the game. Hopefully that clears up Megaman for you and I'm not asking for you to give it another chance just to understand why people like Megaman games.

3. this point will more or less be discussing your points on Mario, the point of buying video games, your buying of franchises, and your stance on challenging games. Guess I will start with the only real thing I genuinely don't agree with in your post and that is the point of video games. Look man i get that you genuinely hate hard games but you really cant boldly declare "difficulty makes the whole point of video games the opposite" as a fact when that wasn't the point of them. Since from a factual stand point it is wrong as video games exist to make money. Secondly some games choose give the player a sense of satisfaction through challenges and difficulty as they want to make you feel like you have grown as a player since the first time you booted up the game by the time you hit the credits. I actually have to disagree with the Mario statement cause I've never been able to beat SMB 3 or world. Thirdly yes challenging things are fun some people enjoy having their asses handed to them and being told try again.

4. Gonna devote this section to what I feel are the logical fallacy with your argument. lets just adresses this right now yes stress can kill you but stress from a video game alone will not kill you. Unless you have other outside influences happening like stress from life in general. Now with that out of the way lets talk about how difficulty affects game franchises. No donkey kong tropical freeze and NSMBU did not suffer lesser sales because of their difficulty they suffered lesser sales because the wii u is one of the worst selling nintendo consoles of all time and these games dont have nearly as large of a pool of people to sell to because of that. Finally and I cant belive I have to say this Megaman did not die because his games were too difficult they died because franchise fatigue had kicked in for him during the ps2 era and people just didn't want any more Megaman for a while.

5. Finally I find most of your solutions to be resonable expecations from games only real tweaks id make are the checkpoint bit add things like that to the easy mode to better help doferentiate the difficulties. Also yes the water level complaint is valid I can count on one freaking hand how many times I played a well done water level in a fun not horrible way.

Any way mate sorry if at times this long ass post seems not focused or some of the counter points none sensical since it's currently 4 in the morning from where I am typing. Just point out any inconsistency you (not just Nintation but anyone else reading this) find in my post and tell me and I would be happy to correct it and continue a discussion from that point on. I will say though outside of a few choice points I find we do agree alot in terms of what we expect out of a game when we buy it. Now hopefully I conveyed that shit in my post cause its late and I have no energy to read over my post again to fix it.



I'll just go ahead and assume that this is a satirical piece.



Well, I really dont know if you really mean this, or if you are just wrting a satire, but if are you serious...

First you need some anger management sessions.Its not normal to just destroy a videogame cd because a Fish Boss just kicked your ass.(But i gotta admit, i laughed a bit as i read that DK just KOed you).But you are completely wrong.Games should be challeging, and thats the fun of it.Sure, there are games that are meant to be easy and thats the whole point, but there are others that are meant to be hard, and thats the charm.You say games like megaman would sell more or be alive today if they were easier?lol. Being hard is what made those games.Megaman is famous today in part because of its difficulty.There is just no megaman today because Capcom is dumb, nothing else.

I understand that even games that are a bit hard is not your cup of tee, but you should really try to play them, otherwise you are skipping a great portion of the joy of playing videogames



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

I disagree with OP, I hate easy games and feel that being too easy ruins gaming. In the 7th gen, they started dumbing down everything and adding hand-holding mechanics in almost every genre and games, I well and truly hated it, removing challenges and making press win button titles is worthless to me.



I think you have some serious issues.

You could've sold that game again and buy a "better" one instead of stepping on it.


I agree with MegaMan though. Those games are really hard and I don't feel like touching any of them again since it's basically a trial and error game and I think it's pretty cheap if there's no way to beat a level unless you know exactly what's going to happen next. (also the checkpoint system is pretty shitty.)