PwerlvlAmy said: Its usualy online where I encounter hostility or see hostility from both sides

That's what happens when you give people anonymity and an audience, their inner arsehole is unleashed.

PwerlvlAmy said: StarOcean said: Nope, never do. All that happens is you see the atheists* call religious people brainwashed idiots who caused every bad thing thats ever happened in human history, and then you got the religous* side trying to justify themselves and whatever hell else they do.  *Note: This only really occurs on these forums and online in general. In rl I have atheist and religous friends and they don't go bat-shit crazy into mindless debates XD These sorts of threads are as bad as the "chertz rnt updted" threads because all they do is divide the community due to their often offensive and hate-spreading behavior.  That's actually true. I actually have quite a few atheist friends but they never shove it in my face or condemn me and vice versa. Its usualy online where I encounter hostility or see hostility from both sides

It's due to the anonymity of the internet. When people feel protected the tend to say everything they think, for better or worse. In my experience I've noticed it's mainly insecure individuals who start and / or participate in these sorts of discussions. I believe they want to feel accepted and so they act out and seek others who sympathize with them for reassurance in their beliefs creating a social "confirmation bias" of sorts -or at least that's what I'd compare it to.

Atheists are good people, as are religious. In real life situations people very accepting of one another for the most part (not always) and don't act out the way they do here. I've yet to meet an extremist from either side in person, at least close to the level I encounter them at online anyway.

Toxy said: Nettles said: Muslims will never support gay rights or abortions, get real. Point is, the current system has basically reached it's expiration date.Most countries in the world are completely bankrupt and paper fiat currency is backed by nothing but faith.Faith that diminishes ever further with the continued debasement that has accelerated over the past 20 years. So we have established the system is unsustainable, fewer jobs owing to more technological advances, diminishing resources, funny money that becomes worth less every day and debt that is simply unpayable.The global economy will financially collapse and the people least prepared for it will be the far left inner city hipsters/progressive types.In Europe muslims are overwhelmingly based in large cities, they too will suffer greatly.The ones who will do the best? Right wing religious types - Amish type folk will continue on mostly unaffected, preppers, people who read biblical scripture and are preparing for "end times". It all boils down to this.The left thinks big government is the solution to problems, the right thinks big government is the problem.I would not trust the government to look after you in any sort of major economic collapse situation, most of the higher ups will be in an underground base waiting it out.Failing economies also like to start wars to "kickstart" the economy, to increase govt support and to enact whatever fascist laws they wish.I'm closely watching the situation in the South China sea right now with China building these artificial islands, obviously so they can claim what ocean territory they already believe to be theirs. I agree with a lot of what you said... however I will disagree with you description of the Left & Right. I consider myself to be left wing, however by your definition, the particular ideology of the Left that I align myself with does not exist. I believe that all forms of government are harmful to society, so too is religion. No Gods, no masters. If one allows themself to be ruled by a tyrant God, believe me, if any depiction of God exists, God is a tyrant.  What kind of God would allow children to have bone cancer? And then if you deny this terrible heartless God, you have to burn for eternity. Not that there is any proof of any Gods existence whatsoever. However to allow your self to be ruled by such a belief, you are allowing yourself to be ruled by people as well. Governments of the past were formed to rule people and they primarily used religion to create laws and to control the masses. Governments to this day still heavily consist of religious, conservative types, who will stop at nothing to ensure that people are still oppressed.  People should have the right to marry whom they want without government intervention. If people should go to war, so to should those in power. It is hypocrisy. If you lie to the government it is a crime, however if they lie to you, it is just politics.

I didn't go too much into description of Left/Right (personally i am not religious) , but if you look at electoral results maps you will find large cities vote overwhelmingly democrat - NYC, Chicago, Detroit and rural areas are more republican.Big cities will do far worse in the economic collapse than rural areas was my main point, a very likely outcome is the USA will be more right wing and more religious in 30 years than today because the inner city types cannot survive without government help in the event of a financial collapse.Europe is the same.Australia is at risk of invasion from Indonesia or China so it is harder to say where it will be in 40 years.

reggin_bolas said: Skullwaker said: That part really caught me off guard. And that's saying a lot, because the whole OP basically did that. My observation is a neutral one, rooted in objective fact. Islam and national socialism are historically tied. The grand mufti of Jerusalem was closely associated with Hitler. Socialism in post-war Europe is the result of Marxist influence. What is also less commonly known is social reformers studied the wellfare structure of the third reich and modified it. Hitler invented the wellfare state we have in EU today. Shocker right?

that was Bismarck, but nice try.

If you ever actually have read the Bible, Jesus was a really cool guy. If more Christians practiced the things that he taught it would be much more popular. True story.

Hitler losing isn't the reason behind Christian numbers declining, I think it is more to do with the Catholics going in witch hunts and killing scientists in the 17th century after which came the enlightenment era. The moves by the Catholic Church forced science and religion to be separate and the results of this can be seen today.

Christianity is weaker in dust first world countries, not sure to science and education, but because of a simple human condition where if you do well you don't need God. Newer generations in developed first world countries live a hedonistic lifestyle and religion doesn't work well with it; it feels old, outdated and could be a cockblock.

The anti christ in abrahamic faith is only going to come after the hog and magog (cannibal nation) are released onto mankind. Secondly, the anti christ in the Bible is described as someone who is against christ and that someone not believing in Jesus being the Messiah / anointed one. It is impossible for a Muslim to be a Muslim unless he / she believes that Jesus christ is the messiah / anointed one.

According to the Islamic teachings, the anti christ is as the bible says, but then gives further details such : he will rise in the middle east, he will only have one eye, he will have curly red hair, he will come when people of faith themselves are weak in their faith, he will rule for 40 years, he will be able to perform miracles etc

Essentially as the number of Muslims grow, so do believers in christ.

Also, had an interesting conversation with a group of Christians from Sweden a few years ago and what was said it's that Christianity is also in decline as it has become really laid back to the point it is anything that anyone wants it to be. The church keeps changing Christianity to the will of what the world and I'm doing so it has become a shadow of its former self. I don't entirely agree with this, I think it is because society has changed and in the West, pressure is building on people of faith and there is a lot of bullying, even from the likes of great intellectuals like Neil deGrass Tyson where if you have a faith you are seen as an idiot. Faiths like Islam, Sikhism, Judaism that are rooted deep into culture, identity and are practices on a regular basis have a stronger chance of survival compared to a faith that is very liberal in its teachings and practices compared to what it would have been 100 years ago.

Burek said: Christianity is falling because people have increased access to information, and it is easier for them to educate themselves. Education leads to thinking, and thinking leads to a realization that Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy and Jesus Christ are fictional characters existing only in fairytales. It is that simple, and nothing complex and xenophobic as you make it out to be.

no one has ever denied the existence of Jesus.

amp316 said: If you ever actually have read the Bible, Jesus was a really cool guy. If more Christians practiced the things that he taught it would be much more popular. True story.

"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me."

 

- Jesus Christ

Toxy said: Dante9 said: Why is gay marriage such a great threat to Christianity? The world is full of things that don't mesh with the Bible and its rules, but it seems this gay thing is the only thing that you people are worried about? Seems more like a personal problem for Christians than anything else. The Great Big Book of cherry picking your personal peeves and throwing the book at them. It's great for rerouting your personal moral values through a "higher authority" for convenience. It is stupid. It is only something briefly mentioned in the bible yet that is one of the main factors that Christians hold dear. As a matter of fact, the bible mentions on numerous occasions not to eat shrimp, this is mentioned more than the anti-gay bigotry passages.  Christians still eat shrimp though. They are just very selective about which parts of the bible appeal to them, and what they should use to control others. The popes and so forth probably were in agreement that it is okay to molester children (boys) but not okay to marry another man. Oh and that shrimp is okay regardless of that being mentioned more often than homosexuality.

Here's the thing. Its easy to make generalization, but realize they are generally wrong. Refrences to Shrimp and other unclean foods are in the Old testament, which is the Old Covanent, which practicing Christians, generally, do not observe. That is Judaism. Christians' follow the New Covanent of faith in Christ.

Pedofillia in the Church has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with Corruption, which I reiterate has nothing to do with Religion.

That being said, homosexuality is defined as a sin in the Bible, but the Bible is not anti Homosexuals and neither is Christianity. The hate and the Bigotry come from personal biases and environment. Since many of the people with these views are also Christians or believe themselves to be Christian, despite the fact that intolerance(or really any form of hate really) is actually contradictory to the Bible's teachings, and the hide behind religion to validate their bigotry, the two are often conflated.

In actually, with regards to the Bible, all sins are equal and all men/women are Sinners. 

But this is another reason why this whole "debate" is asanine. 

IIIIITHE1IIIII said: amp316 said: If you ever actually have read the Bible, Jesus was a really cool guy. If more Christians practiced the things that he taught it would be much more popular. True story. "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me."   - Jesus Christ

And you do know about the healing of the sick, curing lepers, feeding the poor, turn the other cheek, and all of that, right?