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Ocarina of Time 22 4.37%
 
Majora's Mask 58 11.53%
 
Wind Waker 85 16.90%
 
Twilight Princess 81 16.10%
 
Skyward Sword 140 27.83%
 
FUR SWURDS ADVENTURS 117 23.26%
 
Total:503
Mythmaker1 said:
curl-6 said:

As far as gameplay interrupting the plot, the point of games is to be played, telling a story is secondary. 

Zelda narratives are fairytale tropes strung together with rehashed plot points, it's always been this way. They've never been deep or made any sense when held up to scrutiny. Skyward Sword at least managed to have an impact on me through on an emotional level; the only other one to do that was Twilight Princess, and for the same reason; a single actually likeable character in a tragic position. (Zelda/Midna) 

That not what I was talking about, and it doesn't actually make much sense. If anything, the story interrupts the gameplay in Skyward Sword, given the abundance of unavoidable and unskippable cutscenes and dialogues on the surface (not to mention Fi). All of that, however, is just fluff; it doesn't advance the plot or the characters. The only times we actually see that kind of substantial advancement are during the two times I mentioned.

So not only do you still have to put up with all of those interruptions, but they're doubly useless because they don't even use that time effectively.

You're generalizing quite a bit here (see Majora's Mask), but you do have a point about the series use (or overuse) of tropes. I'm not defending that.

I'm not sure I know what you mean, however, when you say the games don't hold up to scrutiny. There are a few plot holes and unanswered questions in games like OoT and MM, but they don't leave you wondering what you're accomplishing, or questioning the fundamentals of character motivation.

Story didn't seem any more intrusive or insubstantial than other Zeldas to me. The unskippable dialogue was definitely a drawback, but it didn't kill the game for me.

I never wondered what I was accomplishing or questioned character motivation either; Link was trying to find/rescue his friend, and along the way forge the master sword, Zelda and Impa were trying to prevent the Demon King's return.

The gameplay was more a priority for me, and that's where Skyward Sword really delivered.



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In difficulty I'd say it's: MM>SS>OoT>>>>>>>>>>>WW>>TP



 

English is not my native language

Two things:
a. The stamina meter was great
b. The tutorial in SS was surprisingly short. Upon replaying the game, I got to the first dungeon in about thirty minutes.



curl-6 said:
Mythmaker1 said:

That not what I was talking about, and it doesn't actually make much sense. If anything, the story interrupts the gameplay in Skyward Sword, given the abundance of unavoidable and unskippable cutscenes and dialogues on the surface (not to mention Fi). All of that, however, is just fluff; it doesn't advance the plot or the characters. The only times we actually see that kind of substantial advancement are during the two times I mentioned.

So not only do you still have to put up with all of those interruptions, but they're doubly useless because they don't even use that time effectively.

You're generalizing quite a bit here (see Majora's Mask), but you do have a point about the series use (or overuse) of tropes. I'm not defending that.

I'm not sure I know what you mean, however, when you say the games don't hold up to scrutiny. There are a few plot holes and unanswered questions in games like OoT and MM, but they don't leave you wondering what you're accomplishing, or questioning the fundamentals of character motivation.

Story didn't seem any more intrusive or insubstantial than other Zeldas to me. The unskippable dialogue was definitely a drawback, but it didn't kill the game for me.

I never wondered what I was accomplishing or questioned character motivation either; Link was trying to find/rescue his friend, and along the way forge the master sword, Zelda and Impa were trying to prevent the Demon King's return.

The gameplay was more a priority for me, and that's where Skyward Sword really delivered.

Just so you know, you're conflating terms here. The story is intrusive, the plot is insubstantial (just a pet peeve of mine). Regarding the intrusive parts, I took a few minutes here to watch a walkthrough of Faron Woods (first time) and reaquaint myself with the game. During the 20 minutes or so spent there, there were around 10 unskippable and unavoidable dialogues or cutscenes, which I find pretty intrusive. Regarding the insubstanial part, compare the first act (the first three dungeons, basically) of SS with OoT. There's not a huge difference in time devoted to story, but one gets a lot more accomplished during that time.

You may not have had any questions, but I came up with a few. For instance, why was Link being forced to follow behind Zelda rather than accompany her? Why does Ghirahim not kill Link at the Temple of Time? Why is the Song of the Hero broken up into pieces? And what does Link accomplish during the first round of dungeons other than waste his time?



I believe in honesty, civility, generosity, practicality, and impartiality.

Ocarina of Time may have been revolutionary for its time, establishing the current formula of Zelda 3D games, but there's no denying that today, and compared to its successors, Ocarina of Time fails miserably, the other3D Zelda games are improvements over this one, even the somewhat boring Skyward Sword.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

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Mythmaker1 said:
curl-6 said:
Mythmaker1 said:

That not what I was talking about, and it doesn't actually make much sense. If anything, the story interrupts the gameplay in Skyward Sword, given the abundance of unavoidable and unskippable cutscenes and dialogues on the surface (not to mention Fi). All of that, however, is just fluff; it doesn't advance the plot or the characters. The only times we actually see that kind of substantial advancement are during the two times I mentioned.

So not only do you still have to put up with all of those interruptions, but they're doubly useless because they don't even use that time effectively.

You're generalizing quite a bit here (see Majora's Mask), but you do have a point about the series use (or overuse) of tropes. I'm not defending that.

I'm not sure I know what you mean, however, when you say the games don't hold up to scrutiny. There are a few plot holes and unanswered questions in games like OoT and MM, but they don't leave you wondering what you're accomplishing, or questioning the fundamentals of character motivation.

Story didn't seem any more intrusive or insubstantial than other Zeldas to me. The unskippable dialogue was definitely a drawback, but it didn't kill the game for me.

I never wondered what I was accomplishing or questioned character motivation either; Link was trying to find/rescue his friend, and along the way forge the master sword, Zelda and Impa were trying to prevent the Demon King's return.

The gameplay was more a priority for me, and that's where Skyward Sword really delivered.

Just so you know, you're conflating terms here. The story is intrusive, the plot is insubstantial (just a pet peeve of mine). Regarding the intrusive parts, I took a few minutes here to watch a walkthrough of Faron Woods (first time) and reaquaint myself with the game. During the 20 minutes or so spent there, there were around 10 unskippable and unavoidable dialogues or cutscenes, which I find pretty intrusive. Regarding the insubstanial part, compare the first act (the first three dungeons, basically) of SS with OoT. There's not a huge difference in time devoted to story, but one gets a lot more accomplished during that time.

You may not have had any questions, but I came up with a few. For instance, why was Link being forced to follow behind Zelda rather than accompany her? Why does Ghirahim not kill Link at the Temple of Time? Why is the Song of the Hero broken up into pieces? And what does Link accomplish during the first round of dungeons other than waste his time?

Story's not just a matter of getting stuff done though. SS Zelda made its story a lot more appealing than OoT for me, cos I actually gave a damn about her.

Link follows Zelda cos he's trying to save her but doesn't realize that she's fine on her own, or rather with Shiekah, because he's not ready yet to be the Hero of Time. Ghirahim doesn't kill Link because he enjoys toying with his prey, he's arrogant to a fault. In the early dungeons, Link is building his skill, and learning that he's not ready yet, but working towards being so. Can't remember the song of Heroes thing, last played it in 2011.



Metallox said:
Ocarina of Time may have been revolutionary for its time, establishing the current formula of Zelda 3D games, but there's no denying that today, and compared to its successors, Ocarina of Time fails miserably, the other3D Zelda games are improvements over this one, even the somewhat boring Skyward Sword.


Nostalgia is a horrible mistress isn't it?



"Say what you want about Americans but we understand Capitalism.You buy yourself a product and you Get What You Pay For."  

- Max Payne 3

alternine said:
Metallox said:
Ocarina of Time may have been revolutionary for its time, establishing the current formula of Zelda 3D games, but there's no denying that today, and compared to its successors, Ocarina of Time fails miserably, the other3D Zelda games are improvements over this one, even the somewhat boring Skyward Sword.


Nostalgia is a horrible mistress isn't it?

or maybe people think it's a legitimately well designed game, also for some reason the nostalgia argument applies to OoT but not to Wind Waker or Majora's Mask, I bet a lot of people here have nostalgia for the Gamecube era.



 

English is not my native language

Ashitaka92 said:
alternine said:
Metallox said:
Ocarina of Time may have been revolutionary for its time, establishing the current formula of Zelda 3D games, but there's no denying that today, and compared to its successors, Ocarina of Time fails miserably, the other3D Zelda games are improvements over this one, even the somewhat boring Skyward Sword.


Nostalgia is a horrible mistress isn't it?

or maybe people think it's a legitimately well designed game, also for some reason the nostalgia argument applies to OoT but not to Wind Waker or Majora's Mask, I bet a lot of people here have nostalgia for the Gamecube era.

Clearly that's crazy talk. Everybody knows old games are always awful and cannot possibly be liked more than new games.



curl-6 said:
Mythmaker1 said:

Just so you know, you're conflating terms here. The story is intrusive, the plot is insubstantial (just a pet peeve of mine). Regarding the intrusive parts, I took a few minutes here to watch a walkthrough of Faron Woods (first time) and reaquaint myself with the game. During the 20 minutes or so spent there, there were around 10 unskippable and unavoidable dialogues or cutscenes, which I find pretty intrusive. Regarding the insubstanial part, compare the first act (the first three dungeons, basically) of SS with OoT. There's not a huge difference in time devoted to story, but one gets a lot more accomplished during that time.

You may not have had any questions, but I came up with a few. For instance, why was Link being forced to follow behind Zelda rather than accompany her? Why does Ghirahim not kill Link at the Temple of Time? Why is the Song of the Hero broken up into pieces? And what does Link accomplish during the first round of dungeons other than waste his time?

Story's not just a matter of getting stuff done though. SS Zelda made its story a lot more appealing than OoT for me, cos I actually gave a damn about her.

Link follows Zelda cos he's trying to save her but doesn't realize that she's fine on her own, or rather with Shiekah, because he's not ready yet to be the Hero of Time. Ghirahim doesn't kill Link because he enjoys toying with his prey, he's arrogant to a fault. In the early dungeons, Link is building his skill, and learning that he's not ready yet, but working towards being so. Can't remember the song of Heroes thing, last played it in 2011.

I can understand being invested in the Zelda character in this game. That said, it's imprtant to remember how much presence she has in the story. Outside of the tutorial, the ending, and a single 10-minute cutscene, she has exactly 4 lines and maybe 3 minutes on-screen. Like I said before, her parts, the best parts, are just a few moments. And the reason these moments probably stick out so prominently is because the rest of the story is so inconsequential and forgettable.

As far as the role of story, a story is exactly a matter of getting stuff done. Establishing and developing characters and setting and advancing the plot are what a story is supposed to do. If your story isn't doing those things, it's just wasting your time. OoT does those things; Skyward Sword, less so.

-It's implied through dialogue that Link was supposed to escort Zelda. Except she went off without him, so he was forced to play catch-up. Except when he does catch-up, he's told to back off. Basically, he's just being jerked around for no good reason.

-Ghirahim toying with Link made sense the first time. Maybe the second time, at a stretch. The third time, after Link stops being a nuisance and actively interferes with his plans, Ghirahim claims he's not going to make the same mistake again, and then does just that.

-"Buidling his skill" strikes me as a cop-out. The same could be said for spending 5 hours grinding in an RPG, and it has just as much impact on the story. During that time, Link unlocks the other areas of the map, which is so inconsequential it can be removed entirely with no effect on the plot.

-The Song of the Hero is the last round of questing required before the endgame. You have to seek out 4 dragons to get the pieces of the Song given to them by Hylia. Except it's all pointless because Hylia, either through Zelda or her servant Impa, could have just given Link the song instead. It's just a contrived excuse to pad out the game.



I believe in honesty, civility, generosity, practicality, and impartiality.