By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's reluctance to build new IP's is killing their brand

Purple on 12 October 2014
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Well... If you really do think that "new IPs" sell hardware regardless if they are any good or not just as long as they are new, then maybe we should compare the "New IPs" of both platforms... So, if we look at the list of top selling new IPs the wii had that Nintendo published, it had:

1 Wii Sports Wii 2006 Sports Nintendo 41.16 28.76 3.77 8.41 82.10
2
 Wii Sports Resort Wii 2009 Sports Nintendo 15.48 10.77 3.26 2.92 32.43
3
 Wii Play Wii 2006 Misc Nintendo 13.91 9.15 2.93 2.84 28.82
4
 Wii Fit Wii 2007 Sports Nintendo 8.92 8.03 3.60 2.14 22.69
5 Link's Crossbow Training Wii 2007 Shooter Nintendo 3.04 1.15 0.29 0.46 4.95

Also, keep in mind the dates! So, in the wii's first year, the wii had two brand new IPs that Nintendo published, Wii sports and wii play so if we look at the wiiU. The wiiU also had two brand new IPs that Nintendo published on its first year, Nintendoland and Wonderful 101! So did that help the wiiU? Nope! Then you take a look at its second year, the wii had one new IP called Wii Fit. So, for the wiiU, what did it have? Well, it has Captain Toad which is a brand new IP, is it going to help the wiiU sell more hardware? Nope! So then, Nintendo skips the third year with its new IP in terms of top selling but the wiiU is getting 3 new IPs next year from Nintendo! You have Project Guard, Giant Robot and Splatoon! So are they gonna help the wiiU a lot? Probably not!

So, lets count the new IP list on the same time frame that is published by Nintendo. Wii had 5 new top selling IPs and the wiiU has 6 in the same time frame! You can continue to go down and find some more like Wii Music but by that point, their "old IPs" out sold the new ones so at the end of the day, my point is... New IPs like wii ____ and other niche new IPs don't matter when it comes to selling a console! What they need is a big budget new IPs with great marketing, not just "New IPs" like they had with the wii. (As well as manyyyyy other things)

I definitely never said new IP's sell hardware regardless of quality. I have no idea where you got that from.

Your next paragraph is incredibly confusing. You've handpicked only  five games (including Crossbow Training bizarrely?) and then compare them to EVERY game on Wii U to show there are the same number of new titles. The Wii had way more new IP's than the ones you have listed.

Let me quickly list the two major points of what I am saying because i feel like you don't understand.

Nintendo had a heap of success in creating new and interesting IP in the Wii and DS era. For some misguided reason they are now creating fewer and less ambitious new IP. This is a problem because...

Nintendo's franchises are declining in popularity. Simply releasing iterative upgrades has led to fewer and fewer people picking up the games and systems. This is true for every Nintendo franchise released on Wii U and 3DS. This should be extremely concerning for Nintendo.




Around the Network
Guitarguy on 12 October 2014
Purple said:
I3LuEI3omI3eR said:

It's crazy that you are stating this, for many say Nintendo's inability to deliver with their OLD IPs at Launch date was a HUGE reason why the Wii U is not selling. Granted they had New Super Mario Bros Wii U, but NSMB series as a whole are just Solid games to back up the Heavy Hitting games (Pokémon, Zelda, 3D Mario's, Mario Kart's etc).

For the Record, Nintendo Land and ZombiiU are new IPs too.

But the old IP's are there now. The only games missing are Smash Bros. and Zelda. The sales of the Wii U show that there aren't enough people interested in these old franchises.

I counted Nintendoland, which makes me think you didn't read the OP. And I don't know how Ubisoft creating one new IP somehow excuses Nintendo's reluctance to do so.

Whilst I LOVE the main Zelda series, I feel it has not innovated much since Ocarina of time. Now don't get me wrong, Ocarina was definitely one of the most innovative and seminal games ever but all it's 'sequels"(if you can call them that) have basically rehashed the same formula. Yes the Wii version of of Princess Twilight and Skyward Sword incorporated motion controls but that was dependent on physical peripherals but not an internal game mechanic. When the Wii U Zelda is finally released I don't think it will sell as well as its predecessors unless there are some new innovations. Even Skyward Sword only sold something like 3.41 million units in a month with well over 80 million Wii consoles sold whilst TLOU(a brand new IP) sold almost the exact same amount in 3 weeks on a console with less/same units sold. And we are comparing a brand new and unknown IP to a franchice that has been around since the 80s and has been lauded by the vast majority of people. That is quite telling...



Purple on 12 October 2014
zippy said:
New IPs like W101 (which is amazing) haven't done a lot to boost Wii U sales, however an "overused IP" called Mario Kart has mostly doubled Wii U sales. I think so far with Wii U Nintendo have created/funded a few new IPs or a different take on an already existing one, they have also ressurrected a sequel in which its last iteration was about ten years ago. W101, Lego City undercover, Sonic Lost world, Hyrule Warriors and even a new 3rd party IP in Zombi U are all interesting games that are either a new IP or a radical shift from how other games in their genre play, I also think that Smash Bros U will prob outsell them all combined. In terms of games i think Nintendo have done a good job blending new IPs, interesting exclusives and their classic franchises to created a good unique library, their big mistake was oversaturating the NSMB games, they should have held the 3DS version back. For me as a gamer, i much prefer what Nintendo have done with Wii U compared to what they did with the Wii, unfortunately the mass market dont think this.

Mario Kart is a series in decline and is a perfect example of what I'm saying. It is a series being killed by Nintendo's reluctance to build new IP and attract new customers to the console.



animegaming on 12 October 2014

have you seen this years E3 where Splatoon, Devils Third, Code Name Steam, Project Guard, and Project Giant Robot were all announced? (though i guess you can say Devils Third was more or so a renouncement)



Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 12 October 2014
Purple said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Well... If you really do think that "new IPs" sell hardware regardless if they are any good or not just as long as they are new, then maybe we should compare the "New IPs" of both platforms... So, if we look at the list of top selling new IPs the wii had that Nintendo published, it had:

1 Wii Sports Wii 2006 Sports Nintendo 41.16 28.76 3.77 8.41 82.10
2
 Wii Sports Resort Wii 2009 Sports Nintendo 15.48 10.77 3.26 2.92 32.43
3
 Wii Play Wii 2006 Misc Nintendo 13.91 9.15 2.93 2.84 28.82
4
 Wii Fit Wii 2007 Sports Nintendo 8.92 8.03 3.60 2.14 22.69
5 Link's Crossbow Training Wii 2007 Shooter Nintendo 3.04 1.15 0.29 0.46 4.95

Also, keep in mind the dates! So, in the wii's first year, the wii had two brand new IPs that Nintendo published, Wii sports and wii play so if we look at the wiiU. The wiiU also had two brand new IPs that Nintendo published on its first year, Nintendoland and Wonderful 101! So did that help the wiiU? Nope! Then you take a look at its second year, the wii had one new IP called Wii Fit. So, for the wiiU, what did it have? Well, it has Captain Toad which is a brand new IP, is it going to help the wiiU sell more hardware? Nope! So then, Nintendo skips the third year with its new IP in terms of top selling but the wiiU is getting 3 new IPs next year from Nintendo! You have Project Guard, Giant Robot and Splatoon! So are they gonna help the wiiU a lot? Probably not!

So, lets count the new IP list on the same time frame that is published by Nintendo. Wii had 5 new top selling IPs and the wiiU has 6 in the same time frame! You can continue to go down and find some more like Wii Music but by that point, their "old IPs" out sold the new ones so at the end of the day, my point is... New IPs like wii ____ and other niche new IPs don't matter when it comes to selling a console! What they need is a big budget new IPs with great marketing, not just "New IPs" like they had with the wii. (As well as manyyyyy other things)

I definitely never said new IP's sell hardware regardless of quality. I have no idea where you got that from.

Your next paragraph is incredibly confusing. You've handpicked only  five games (including Crossbow Training bizarrely?) and then compare them to EVERY game on Wii U to show there are the same number of new titles. The Wii had way more new IP's than the ones you have listed.

Let me quickly list the two major points of what I am saying because i feel like you don't understand.

Nintendo had a heap of success in creating new and interesting IP in the Wii and DS era. For some misguided reason they are now creating fewer and less ambitious new IP. This is a problem because...

Nintendo's franchises are declining in popularity. Simply releasing iterative upgrades has led to fewer and fewer people picking up the games and systems. This is true for every Nintendo franchise released on Wii U and 3DS. This should be extremely concerning for Nintendo.

Well... It wasn't exactly handpicking, I simply went to vgchartz, went to the top selling in the wii platfrom, and picked the new IP's from top to bottom that sold the most excluding their sequels cause you said "If Wii Sports was the only new IP that sold well on the Wii I'd say you have a point. But just to make this clear, the vast majority of best selling games on the Wii were completely new IP."

And I got the idea from the fact that their new IPs were terrible that sold the most that were published by Nintendo...

Have you actually played wii play?

http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/wii-play

Or wii music?

http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/wii-music

Or Wii Party?

http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/wii-party

and etc? Cause those were terrible games but they were new IPs created by Nintendo that sold the most... Wii Sports was bundled in for free with every single wii for free and with wii sports resort came out, it got bundled in with the wii. Heck, show me ur list then of these epic new IPs that you speak of which are made by Nintendo that sold better than Nintendo's old IPs on the wii



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Around the Network
Podings on 12 October 2014

While I agree that Nintendo could push some of their new ideas a little more than they do, they do constantly generate new franchises. They just all start relatively small. Just like the mastodont IPs they are currently in possession of mostly had humble beginnings.

In any case, this has nothing to do with why the Wii U is failing. The Wii U is failing because it never had a powerful, marketable presence that people understood. This meant Nintendo never could do any sensible promotional videos, and couldn't get it into hands of prominent pop culture people. Also, while Nintendoland is a great minigame collection, it's a right mess visually, and quickly excludes newcomers simply by being incredibly confusing, contrary to what Wii Sports achieved.

What little traction the system had in the beginning was killed off by the ridiculous decision to have different SKUs available at launch, meaning a shortage of premium bundles and smelly unwanted basic sets on shelves. Department stores didn't get it, and Nintendo weren't good with replacing the unwanted systems until most major retailers had decided to drop the system altogether.

Even many toy store chains around the world who made a killing on Wii and DS have opted to not carry the Wii U, because nobody knew what it was and costomers didn't ask about it anyway. With all the highstreet exposure gone, Nintendo is left selling only to enthusiasts who get their electronics online or in specialty stores. This means they never will build a strong product flow for the system, unfortunate (but not entirely unfair) as it may seem.



WhiteEaglePL on 12 October 2014

They do though..........Project Steam & Splatoon are quite big.

However, I think they should do about 3-4 new retail ip's a year though.



I3LuEI3omI3eR on 12 October 2014
Purple said:
I3LuEI3omI3eR said:

It's crazy that you are stating this, for many say Nintendo's inability to deliver with their OLD IPs at Launch date was a HUGE reason why the Wii U is not selling. Granted they had New Super Mario Bros Wii U, but NSMB series as a whole are just Solid games to back up the Heavy Hitting games (Pokémon, Zelda, 3D Mario's, Mario Kart's etc).

For the Record, Nintendo Land and ZombiiU are new IPs too.

But the old IP's are there now. The only games missing are Smash Bros. and Zelda. The sales of the Wii U show that there aren't enough people interested in these old franchises.

I counted Nintendoland, which makes me think you didn't read the OP. And I don't know how Ubisoft creating one new IP somehow excuses Nintendo's reluctance to do so.

HUGE difference between those games coming out between LAUNCH date and later on. When you buy a console at Launch you want a wide variety of games to play with. Lots of people gave up on it and moved to the PS4 and Xbone. Besides, Sony is still selling Consoles and The Last of Us is a remade game, and it's sold over 1 million copies in a year. Sony's PS4 doesn't even have many new IPs but yet it's still selling based on CoD and many old IPs as well.

And 3D World Mario is not the same as a Mario Galaxy. If A Sequel came out for Mario Galaxy 2 on the Wii U release date it probably would have moved 5 million copies and consoles within the first year. I know this because NSMB is more of a game for casual gamers, and they are a lot less likely to spend $410 on a console and game combined to play one casual game, where as Hardcore and Casual gamers COMBINED (key word there) would have NO PROBLEMS buying a system  and the sequel to one of the greatest games of all time. 

Keep in mind the Wii was out for a full 6 years compared to the 2 years of the Wii U. Wii definitely had more time to do more IPs.

And you say Zelda and Smash like they are nothing. THEY ARE PROVEN CONSOLE MOVERS! Only franchises that has had more success in moving consoles more than Zelda are Mario Games and Pokémon games (but Pokémon games shouldn't count because the best ones are for handhelds). And Smash did wonders for GC back when it was launched.



Guitarguy on 12 October 2014
Podings said:
While I agree that Nintendo could push someof their new idea a little more than they do, they do constantly generate new franchises. They just all start relatively small. Just like the mastodont IPs they are currently in possession of mostly had humble beginnings.

In any case, this has nothing to do with why the Wii U is failing. The Wii U is failing because it never had a powerful, marketable presence that people understood. This meant Nintendo never could do any sensible promotional videos, and couldn't get it into hands of prominent pop culture people. Also, while Nintendoland is a great minigame collection, it's a rigt mess visually, and quickly excludes newcomers, contrary to what Wii Sports achieved.

What little traction the system had in the beginning was killed off by the ridiculous decision to have different SKUs available at launch, meaning a shortage of premium bundles and smelly unwanted basic sets on shelves. Department stores didn't get it, and Nintendo weren't good with replacing the unwanted systems until most mayor retailers had decided to drop the system altogether.

Even many toy store chains around the world who made a killing on Wii and DS have opted to not carry the Wii U because nobody knew what it was. With all the highstreet exposure gone, Nintendo is left selling only to enthusiasts who get their electronics online or in specialty stores. This means they never will build a strong product flow for the system, unfortunate (but not entirely unfair) as it may seem.


Wow, I did not know this. Reminds me of the Dreamcast here in Australia. Many big chiains just did not stock it at all. You had to go to a place like EB to get one but the Target's and other big retailers refused to stock it for some reason. Even the software section in the stores that did stock it was significantly smaller than the N64s section and especially the PS1. When the PS2 arrived it was all over..



animegaming on 12 October 2014
Purple said:
zippy said:
New IPs like W101 (which is amazing) haven't done a lot to boost Wii U sales, however an "overused IP" called Mario Kart has mostly doubled Wii U sales. I think so far with Wii U Nintendo have created/funded a few new IPs or a different take on an already existing one, they have also ressurrected a sequel in which its last iteration was about ten years ago. W101, Lego City undercover, Sonic Lost world, Hyrule Warriors and even a new 3rd party IP in Zombi U are all interesting games that are either a new IP or a radical shift from how other games in their genre play, I also think that Smash Bros U will prob outsell them all combined. In terms of games i think Nintendo have done a good job blending new IPs, interesting exclusives and their classic franchises to created a good unique library, their big mistake was oversaturating the NSMB games, they should have held the 3DS version back. For me as a gamer, i much prefer what Nintendo have done with Wii U compared to what they did with the Wii, unfortunately the mass market dont think this.

Mario Kart is a series in decline and is a perfect example of what I'm saying. It is a series being killed by Nintendo's reluctance to build new IP and attract new customers to the console.


considering how much both Mario Kart DS (22.94) and Mario Kart Wii (34.64 million) have its kinda hard to top both considering how considering to the gamedatabase on this site there have only been a total of 19 games to have ever sold over 20 million copies and also Mario Kart 8 is just right behind 64 for the third highest selling entry in the series so it aint really a decline 

 

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=mario+kart

 

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/