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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's reluctance to build new IP's is killing their brand

Just for the record I think Hyrule Warrior, Captain Toad, and Bayonetta 2 should all be considered new IPs. Bayonetta 2 because it's a new IP to Nintendo and Captain Toad and Hyrule Warriors because they're completely different games than the franchise the characters come from. Captain Toad in particular since Toad has never gotten his own game and it's entirely different than anything in the Super Mario franchise. To me if we're not calling that a new IP than something like Portal wasn't a new IP either when it came out due to it spinning off from the Half-Life franchise. Just using that as one example, there's several others too though that are considered new IPs despite some relation to an existing franchise.



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Purple said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Well... Thats arguable really cause granted wii sports was great but I doubt it is the reason why people bought a wii... The wii was marketed very nicely and the motion controls appealed to the casuals as well as its casual games... And not to mention the price point was very cheap compared to its competitors and it launched with Zelda! Vs the wiiU was marketed very poorly and not to mention the huge amount of confusion with the names and a whole other list of reasons why the wiiU is doing soo poorly but the 3ds is doing great by comparasion even though it doesnt have that many new IPs

If Wii Sports was the only new IP that sold well on the Wii I'd say you have a point. But just to make this clear, the vast majority of best selling games on the Wii were completely new IP. Motion controls by itself wasn't the reason people bought the Wii. It was the new games that came with it that made motion controls appealing.

The 3DS will probably end up losing 50% of the market of the original DS.  It is a flop of incredible proportions for Nintendo. A lack of new software, equivalent to what Brain Age, Nintendogs, Layton, Cooking Mama etc. did for the DS is definitely one of the causes of that collapse.

The name debate is such a non-factor in the Wii U's sales. It's a shocking name, sure, but if it was a desirable product people would want to learn about what it was regardless of what it was called. You can easily pick up a Wii U for $200 now so price is irrelevant.

Again... The market was full of casuals which aren't loyal... Motion controls was a new thing and it was marketed really aggressively towards casuals when it came to the wii so of course casual games will sell well (and not to mention a few of those games came free with the wii like wii sports) just like every other casual stuff... Sure, they were "new IPs" but most of those new IP's werent even good...

And of course the 3ds won't do as good as the DS considering its increasing competition against smartphones... When the DS came out, Phones couldn't play games nor did they have a proper market place like the App store or Google Play and you would be lucky to even get wifi on them so again a lot of casuals bought the DS...

And you can't buy a wiiU for $200 easily... You have to know where to look in order to buy it for $200 and not to mention, its mostly used... If I was a casual and I walk into a retail store like Walmart, I wont be able to buy a wiiU for $200

I think you are not understanding/underestimating how much influence the Casual's had with the wii/DS and now that they are gone, what you are basically left with are mostly people that want the games like Mario and etc as well as IPs that are actually good (new or old)... Both the 3ds and wiiU has a few new IPs coming out and they have new IPs that are already out but the ones that are out are selling poorly cause they are too niche and not very well known!



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Let's see how many new IP's Sony or MS can come up with when they reach 100+ like Nintnendo.. oh wait they haven't, they mainly depend on 3rd parties.



If it isn't turnbased it isn't worth playing   (mostly)

And shepherds we shall be,

For Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti. -----The Boondock Saints

New IPs like W101 (which is amazing) haven't done a lot to boost Wii U sales, however an "overused IP" called Mario Kart has mostly doubled Wii U sales. I think so far with Wii U Nintendo have created/funded a few new IPs or a different take on an already existing one, they have also ressurrected a sequel in which its last iteration was about ten years ago. W101, Lego City undercover, Sonic Lost world, Hyrule Warriors and even a new 3rd party IP in Zombi U are all interesting games that are either a new IP or a radical shift from how other games in their genre play, I also think that Smash Bros U will prob outsell them all combined. In terms of games i think Nintendo have done a good job blending new IPs, interesting exclusives and their classic franchises to created a good unique library, their big mistake was oversaturating the NSMB games, they should have held the 3DS version back. For me as a gamer, i much prefer what Nintendo have done with Wii U compared to what they did with the Wii, unfortunately the mass market dont think this.



Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Again... The market was full of casuals which aren't loyal... Motion controls was a new thing and it was marketed really aggressively towards casuals when it came to the wii so of course casual games will sell well (and not to mention a few of those games came free with the wii like wii sports) just like every other casual stuff... Sure, they were "new IPs" but most of those new IP's werent even good...

And of course the 3ds won't do as good as the DS considering its increasing competition against smartphones... When the DS came out, Phones couldn't play games nor did they have a proper market place like the App store or Google Play and you would be lucky to even get wifi on them so again a lot of casuals bought the DS...

And you can't buy a wiiU for $200 easily... You have to know where to look in order to buy it for $200 and not to mention, its mostly used... If I was a casual and I walk into a retail store like Walmart, I wont be able to buy a wiiU for $200

I think you are not understanding/underestimating how much influence the Casual's had with the wii/DS and now that they are gone, what you are basically left with are mostly people that want the games like Mario and etc as well as IPs that are actually good (new or old)... Both the 3ds and wiiU has a few new IPs coming out and they have new IPs that are already out but the ones that are out are selling poorly cause they are too niche and not very well known!

The "casual" argument is such a weak one. People bought the Wii and the DS because there was interesting software that people were interested in playing. Whether they were normal people who had normal lives or people who spend their whole lives on internet forums doesn't really matter. One groups money is not more desirable than the others. By refusing to cater to people who are interested in new experiences (the people that forum-goers call casuals), Nintendo are missing out on a massive market. I don't see what loyalty has to do with anything. Consumers will always be loyal to the best product to suit their needs and wants. The market clearly want new experiences from Nintendo. Rehashing existing IP's not so much.

Bolded: This is exactly the point I am making. This is a stupid strategy. It's the strategy of a company that have thrown in the towel. If this is their policy moving forward, Nintendo doesn't have a future.



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Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:
Purple said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

You mean like new BIG IPs right? Cause they are making new IPs such as splatoon and they made a few in the wii days too!

Actually, I have this funny pic I will post later

As I said in the OP, the success of the Wii was almost entirely based on new IP so this is more about the last four years. The Wii U has two that I can count, three if you stretch the definition a little and include NES Remix.

Well... Thats arguable really cause granted wii sports was great but I doubt it is the reason why people bought a wii... The wii was marketed very nicely and the motion controls appealed to the casuals as well as its casual games... And not to mention the price point was very cheap compared to its competitors and it launched with Zelda! Vs the wiiU was marketed very poorly and not to mention the huge amount of confusion with the names, it launched with fuck all really compared to Zelda and the Casual market basically went to mobile and a whole other list of reasons why the wiiU is doing soo poorly but the 3ds is doing great by comparasion even though it doesnt have that many new IPs

Pretty much this.

Like Jizz Beard said later too, the casual market is not a loyal one and they will play what's the coolest thing out now. And he brings up a good point where Nintendo didn't have to deal with the Mobile market at the time DS was selling like Hotcakes.

It's crazy that you are stating this, for many say Nintendo's inability to deliver with their OLD IPs at Launch date was a HUGE reason why the Wii U is not selling. Granted they had New Super Mario Bros Wii U, but NSMB series as a whole are just Solid games to back up the Heavy Hitting games (Pokémon, Zelda, 3D Mario's, Mario Kart's etc).

I could remember the Wii U only launching with NSMBWiiU, Nintendo Land, and ZombiiU. Now imagine they would have added DK:TF, The Wonderful 101, a Smash Bros or a Mario Kart (either one would be enough), Pikmin 3, and a Zelda game at release? You are looking at a whole different ballgame. That was also when Nintendo was still getting 3rd party support from publishers as well. Who knows, maybe if they would have followed this strategy, they would still have 3rd party support and would have at least had 10 million console owners? 

Nintendo's mistake was that they thought their Wii fanbase would stay Loyal to Nintendo products no matter what they name it or the lack of Software they throw out there. They are paying for their arrogance now, lets hope they are never arrogant again...

For the Record, Nintendo Land and ZombiiU are new IPs too.



Naum said:
Let's see how many new IP's Sony or MS can come up with when they reach 100+ like Nintnendo.. oh wait they haven't, they mainly depend on 3rd parties.


Lol. Nintendo hasn't made video games for even 50 years, much less 100. It's closer to 30. Sony is probably the best of the big three at creating new IPs, and FYI, every platform maker depends on third parties. Why do you think the Wii U has so low mass-market appeal? Hint: It has basically no third party support.



I3LuEI3omI3eR said:

It's crazy that you are stating this, for many say Nintendo's inability to deliver with their OLD IPs at Launch date was a HUGE reason why the Wii U is not selling. Granted they had New Super Mario Bros Wii U, but NSMB series as a whole are just Solid games to back up the Heavy Hitting games (Pokémon, Zelda, 3D Mario's, Mario Kart's etc).

For the Record, Nintendo Land and ZombiiU are new IPs too.

But the old IP's are there now. The only games missing are Smash Bros. and Zelda. The sales of the Wii U show that there aren't enough people interested in these old franchises.

I counted Nintendoland, which makes me think you didn't read the OP. And I don't know how Ubisoft creating one new IP somehow excuses Nintendo's reluctance to do so.



Purple said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Again... The market was full of casuals which aren't loyal... Motion controls was a new thing and it was marketed really aggressively towards casuals when it came to the wii so of course casual games will sell well (and not to mention a few of those games came free with the wii like wii sports) just like every other casual stuff... Sure, they were "new IPs" but most of those new IP's werent even good...

And of course the 3ds won't do as good as the DS considering its increasing competition against smartphones... When the DS came out, Phones couldn't play games nor did they have a proper market place like the App store or Google Play and you would be lucky to even get wifi on them so again a lot of casuals bought the DS...

And you can't buy a wiiU for $200 easily... You have to know where to look in order to buy it for $200 and not to mention, its mostly used... If I was a casual and I walk into a retail store like Walmart, I wont be able to buy a wiiU for $200

I think you are not understanding/underestimating how much influence the Casual's had with the wii/DS and now that they are gone, what you are basically left with are mostly people that want the games like Mario and etc as well as IPs that are actually good (new or old)... Both the 3ds and wiiU has a few new IPs coming out and they have new IPs that are already out but the ones that are out are selling poorly cause they are too niche and not very well known!

The "casual" argument is such a weak one. People bought the Wii and the DS because there was interesting software that people were interested in playing. Whether they were normal people who had normal lives or people who spend their whole lives on internet forums doesn't really matter. One groups money is not more desirable than the others. By refusing to cater to people who are interested in new experiences (the people that forum-goers call casuals), Nintendo are missing out on a massive market. I don't see what loyalty has to do with anything. Consumers will always be loyal to the best product to suit their needs and wants. The market clearly want new experiences from Nintendo. Rehashing existing IP's not so much.

Bolded: This is exactly the point I am making. This is a stupid strategy. It's the strategy of a company that have thrown in the towel. If this is their policy moving forward, Nintendo doesn't have a future.

Well... If you really do think that "new IPs" sell hardware regardless if they are any good or not just as long as they are new, then maybe we should compare the "New IPs" of both platforms... So, if we look at the list of top selling new IPs the wii had that Nintendo published, it had:

1 Wii Sports Wii 2006 Sports Nintendo 41.16 28.76 3.77 8.41 82.10
2
Wii Play Wii 2006 Misc Nintendo 13.91 9.15 2.93 2.84 28.82
3
Wii Fit Wii 2007 Sports Nintendo 8.92 8.03 3.60 2.14 22.69
4 Link's Crossbow Training Wii 2007 Shooter Nintendo 3.04 1.15 0.29 0.46 4.95

Also, keep in mind the dates! So, in the wii's first year, the wii had two brand new IPs that Nintendo published, Wii sports and wii play so if we look at the wiiU. The wiiU also had two brand new IPs that Nintendo published on its first year, Nintendoland and Wonderful 101! So did that help the wiiU? Nope! Then you take a look at its second year, the wii had two new IPs called Wii Fit and Link's Crossbow Training. So, for the wiiU, what did it have? Well, it has Captain Toad which is a brand new IP, is it going to help the wiiU sell more hardware? Nope! So then, Nintendo skips the third year with its new IP in terms of top selling but the wiiU is getting 3 new IPs next year from Nintendo! You have Project Guard, Giant Robot and Splatoon! So are they gonna help the wiiU a lot? Probably not!

So, lets count the new IP list on the same time frame that is published by Nintendo. Wii had 4 new top selling IPs and the wiiU has 6 in the same time frame! You can continue to go down and find some more like Wii Music (and that would be like 5vs6 so it doesn't really change it that much) but by that point, their "old IPs" out sold the new ones so at the end of the day, my point is... New IPs like wii ____ and niche new IPs don't matter when it comes to selling a console! What they need is a big budget new IPs with great marketing, not just "New IPs" like they had with the wii. (As well as manyyyyy other things)

And as you can see... You need more then just new IPs to sell a console...



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

zippy said:
New IPs like W101 (which is amazing) haven't done a lot to boost Wii U sales, however an "overused IP" called Mario Kart has mostly doubled Wii U sales. I think so far with Wii U Nintendo have created/funded a few new IPs or a different take on an already existing one, they have also ressurrected a sequel in which its last iteration was about ten years ago. W101, Lego City undercover, Sonic Lost world, Hyrule Warriors and even a new 3rd party IP in Zombi U are all interesting games that are either a new IP or a radical shift from how other games in their genre play, I also think that Smash Bros U will prob outsell them all combined. In terms of games i think Nintendo have done a good job blending new IPs, interesting exclusives and their classic franchises to created a good unique library, their big mistake was oversaturating the NSMB games, they should have held the 3DS version back. For me as a gamer, i much prefer what Nintendo have done with Wii U compared to what they did with the Wii, unfortunately the mass market dont think this.

Simply creating new IP's isn't enough, they have to create interesting ones. I don't find any of the ones you listed interesting, even if they might be really good games.