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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Ubisoft: Wii U Owners Don’t Buy Assassin’s Creed; More Interested in Just Dance

Bundles like Zombi U sell better. Exclusives sell better.

Maybe the problem for multi-plats like AC is a lot of people buy them on other systems even if they have a Wii U.  I'm like that.  I've bought plenty of exclusives for Wii U, but when it came to AC no question I got the PS4 version.



My 8th gen collection

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The problem with 3rd parties on Wii U is that because Nintendo systems offer unique interfaces, the graphics/power of the system aren't the focus and when you throw that into the mix, everybody loses their minds. Of course I'm going to get Unity on my PC, because it plays more smoothly on the computer. Why would I buy an inferior port?

I'm sorry, but if you don't market the fact that your game is coming to Wii U, it's your own fault the sales are poor. I KNEW as soon as they delayed Legends, it meant Ubi was pulling out. They became short-sighted and just like EA. You can't rush ports to get the game out. Even if it hurts your hardware sales (Nintendo's 1st-party delays), you MUST take the extra time to get the games right and unique if they are late ports. Sadly, none of these common-sense things occurred. Legends would have shot Wii U sales through the roof and Ubi's profits would have been killer. Instead, they butchered Wii U sales and their own game prospects thanks to a greedy delay that didn't even make them more money.

It's the greed and laziness problem, and I do not purchase games from these companies because they don't deserve my money if their CEOs are paid millions to sit there and make no effort.



padib said:
DerNebel said:

How is Shovel Knight a good example against the point the CEO is making? The game is basically one big love letter to the great games of the NES era, especially Megaman, if there was any group of people this game just had to appeal to then it was the oldschool Nintendo fans, do you expect every third party developer to tailor their games specifically to Nintendo fans tastes?

What he says is right, Nintendo customers haven't bought the last AC games. Nintendo customers haven't bought many M rated games overall, especially third party multiplats. Nintendo customers have on the other hand bought a lot of Just Dance, though I see that declining sharply over the next years. So what of what he said is bothering you here?

Everything about it bothers me, it makes no business sense. Rayman did not sell well either I don't hear him saying that non-"mature" games sell badly on the U.

The bottom line is that games can sell well on the U if you play your cards right. Let's just say Ubi failed badly at making money on the U, and Just Dance I doubt will help them any more.

You make stupid decisions, you pay the price. At 700k sales for ZombiU, there is money to be made.

Shovel Knight is a great example because that indie dev is happy with their results on the U and are making money. Sure it's on a smaller scale but the lessons are equally applicable. Grow the budget a little and it's basically the same equation.

 

Also 700k really is not much for an AAA game, I do agree that Ubisoft isn't the best at managing their cash, but still it's not much.

Overall Ubisoft isn't saying that they won't make anymore Wii U games, I see his comments as them trying to concentrate on games that have an audience on Wii U and bringing those over, that can be titles like Just Dance, which will likely die in the next couple years, but also smaller titles like Child of Light or anything else they might come up with, that they feel makes sense on Wii U. But if they don't make money with their big mature AAA games on Wii U then nobody can force them to put their games on there.

And regarding Rayman, that is directly connected to your last point, Rayman probably has a smaller budget and they were making money with it.



You know, after licensing costs and some marketing costs (like putting the game into box, and shipping the game), I'd expect that they made $10 million in revenue for AC4 Wii U. While I doubt the costs of porting are larger than this, it simply isn't worth it to port.

The problem with Nintendo platforms is that audiences seeking "mature" experiences are largely elsewhere. Even if they do buy a Nintendo console, chances are they'll play it only for Nintendo games. Also, if the first game you introduce in a series is horrible, you'll have to double the effort in your next release to lure the Nintendo faithful. That's just how it is.

Multiplats don't sell on Wii U. (Largely because definitive experiences are found elsewhere; Unless, of course, that it somehow caters to the Nintendo audience more than others.)

"Mature" titles don't sell well on the Wii U. (Largely because of the audience; ZombiU is an outlier.)

Ubisoft has opened yet another Pandora's Box by burning bridges with Nintendo's faithful.



 
I WON A BET AGAINST AZUREN! WOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

:3

I could have told them this would happen years ago. I actually have to give credit to Nintendo for getting Ubi to go along for the ride with them for this long.



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padib said:
DerNebel said:

How is Shovel Knight a good example against the point the CEO is making? The game is basically one big love letter to the great games of the NES era, especially Megaman, if there was any group of people this game just had to appeal to then it was the oldschool Nintendo fans, do you expect every third party developer to tailor their games specifically to Nintendo fans tastes?

What he says is right, Nintendo customers haven't bought the last AC games. Nintendo customers haven't bought many M rated games overall, especially third party multiplats. Nintendo customers have on the other hand bought a lot of Just Dance, though I see that declining sharply over the next years. So what of what he said is bothering you here?

Everything about it bothers me, it makes no business sense. Rayman did not sell well either I don't hear him saying that non-"mature" games sell badly on the U.

The bottom line is that games can sell well on the U if you play your cards right. Let's just say Ubi failed badly at making money on the U, and Just Dance I doubt will help them any more.

You make stupid decisions, you pay the price. At 700k sales for ZombiU, there is money to be made. Sure they were unprofitable for Zombi U, but it doesn't negate the fact that 700k is a lot of sales for a game. The highly acclaimed Demon's Soul sold 1.5m. It's not GTA sales but it's still decent. If the budget were better managed and marketing was more strategic, it's no stretch of the imagination that a game selling 700k on the U with last gen graphics could be profitable.

Shovel Knight is a great example because that indie dev is happy with their results on the U and are making money. Sure it's on a smaller scale but the lessons are equally applicable. Grow the budget a little and it's basically the same equation.

 Yves Guillemot on Zombie U and Rayman Legends -

 

"Yves Guillemot, Chairman and CEO of Ubisoft, is typically one of the biggest proponents of new systems, but betting big on the Wii U didn't work out well for the company. ZombiU, one of the most popular launch titles for the system with players, was not profitable, he says. Not even close. As such, he says, there are no plans (or even desire) for a sequel.

It was, in fact, because of that game's performance that Ubisoft decided to make Rayman Legends a multiplatform game.

For EA, at least, it's the system's lack of a rich multiplayer environment that's one of the big concerns - especially for sports titles. (That's part of the reason Madden won't appear on the system this year.)

"The lack of online engagement that we see on Wii U [is troubling]," says Moore. "It's so integral to what we do. They're so small it's hardly worth running the servers. It seems like a box that's out of sync with the future of EA - which is one that gives a real social feel to our games. The Wii U feels like an offline experience right now."


For one thing Zombie U was a launch title. Secondly, it was heavily bundled with Wii U (Deluxe) systems. Going by sales of earlier games, it makes very little sense in investing in exclusive content on a platform that has yet to provide a valid reason to do so.

As for Zombie U. The game was marketed and bundled and it wasn't even close to profitable. With the sales of that and performance (all round) for third party software on Wii U and Nintendo consoles its quite easy to see why they are Ubi are wary of the platform. They tried. Which is more that can be said about other publishers.



padib said:

3rd parties were late to the party, and are eating the crow they served Nintendo, and will blame Nintendo for it.


3rd parties eating crow? You must be kidding me. What 3rd parties are doing is shrugging, saying "whatever" and leaving the platform in favour of PS4 (and XO ports). It's not like Wii U is any kind of success. The console is struggling and is on its way to become on of the worst selling home consoles in history, moreover the platform and fanbase have a long track record of not buying 3rd party games. You seriously think 3rd parties give a damn about Wii U? Or that they should give? Hell no! If anyone is eating crow here, it's Nintendo for being so family friendly, cartoony, focusing solely on casuals and arogantly ignoring mature gamers. 3rd parties? They have a new cash cow from Sony, they don't need Wii U.

Accept the fact, that 3rd parties just don't care. Nintendo failed to create a business opportunity for other developers, so they leave and go where the money's at. It's the same that happened to Sony and Vita. The Vita AC sold 1 mil and we still didn't get a sequel or even just a port of later games - now that's a kick in the guts! I'd love to see Ubi using these newly freed resources to create new AC Vita or just new ports (port AC Rogue - why the hell not?), but I lost my faith long time ago.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

All comments in quote.

Mr Puggsly said:
padib said:

360k is not impressive for a 2D platformer when a game like NSMB Wii can outsell it by a factor of 25. If you'll name NSMBU, I'll give you Rayman Origins. //Yes, it is. Especially when you burn Nintendo fans by delaying it to launch alongside other versions.

Also Zombi U, talk to me about Zombi U. //Didn't reach expectations, probably. How would you make money off a AA launch release when you make less than $35 million off it?

The huge IPs brought by 3rd parties were well argued to be poor ports lacking in features and DLC which was available on other consoles. The other important argument raised ad nauseam is that 3rd parties did not create a market for any games other than shovelware on the Wii. You reap what you sow. Exceptions were games like Red Steel which again you fail to consider in my arguments. //I agree. Wii shovelware only sold because of its massive userbase.

3rd parties were late to the party, and are eating the crow they served Nintendo, and will blame Nintendo for it. //They're right to blame Nintendo, though. I mean, Nintendo gave itself a competitive advantage because it's used to Gunpei Yokoi's philiosophy, and they're exercising that philosophy with their 7th and 8th-Gen consoles.

No, "mature" games sell fine on the U, so long as they show some kind of promise. The perfect example I brought up is Shovel Knight. It's not gore mature, but it's certainly not just dance type gaming like Guillemot said. //Mature in this sense is according to ESRB rating.

Did you read the interview I linked you to or did you just prefer to tell me to do my research without doing any of your own?

Your argument is weak. A game can still be profitable even if it sells a fraction of Mario. Ubisoft has continued to make 2D games because that don't need to sell mega numbers to be profitable. //True.

Zombi U managed to sell 700k because it was a hyped launch title. Ryse managed to sell about a million units for the same reason. But how have other M rated games on Wii U performed? //ZombiU sold because it was good. Even now I see people recommending it alongside Nintendo Land. I agree with how badly you think others did on Wii U, though.

Wii ports were vastly inferior, but they still had more success than Wii U ports. Even if Wii U ports were at par PS360, they would still sell poorly. //Larger audience. That, and the people who bought CoD on Wii didn't come back for more. Here's how the sales track looks like: http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Call+of+Duty&publisher=&platform=Wii&genre=&minSales=0&results=200

What is your point about Red Steel? That's another game that was hyped for a console launch. //I agree.

3rd parties were at the party when Wii U launched, I don't know what you're babbling about. //Aside from Ubisoft, they had a half-hearted presence. So, I half-agree.

You want developers to make M rated games that appeal to Wii U fans. But developers have no interest in doing that, its too risky with little reward. Zombi U for example is not considered a success. ACIV selling 8+ million on Playstation and Xbox platforms is a great success. //I agree.

I don't feel like reading an opinion from someone that worked on an indie game, its not relevant. I doubt he wants to risk money on making big budget M rated games for Wii U. //I agree.

What these third-party publishers seem to not understand is the mentality of a Nintendo supporter. Loyalty means a lot, you know.

They should look to Atlus for inspiration.



 
I WON A BET AGAINST AZUREN! WOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

:3

padib said:

My argument isn't weak, we're all speaking relatively. You said that 360k was good for a 2D platformer as if 260k was bad for a AAA (relatively speaking). The argument makes perfect sense because to you a game like AC on U didn't sell enough but a game like Rayman did, which is BS.

Zombi U sure was a hyped launch title, it's called marketing. It's exactly what the other quote unquote "AAA" games that weren't exclusive weren't or aren't getting on the U. That's exactly what 3rd parties keep failing at on Nintendo platforms. You don't take the platform seriously, the gamers won't take your games seriously. And that's what we're seeing. COD was selling well on the Wii until the Wii got reduced to some secondary offering with no advertising whatsoever.

My point about Red Steel is that there is a market for those games on Nintendo consoles if they are sold strategically.

Zombi U is not a success. It doesn't change the fact that it sold decently. If you want to make money, you need to manage your expectations. Ubi didn't and failed with Zombi U. Bad on them. As always.

You may not feel like reading it, but you are the one who then needs to do your homework, not me. The article is fully relevant, and though it's related to an indie developer, all the points are equally applicable to Ubi. Your loss.

@ICStats, see last para above. And again ZombiU sells almost 1 mil, I'm sure there's money to be made there even for bigger budget games.

Mario is a top selling IP, Rayman is not. Sales expectations are different. 360k for a 2D platformer is generally good. Rayman Legends is ultimately a success because of combined sales across all platforms.

360k would still be low for a AAA game like Assassin's Creed IV. 170k is abysmal. The Wii U simply isn't financially worthwhile for AAA games core experiences.

Zombi U flopped. Worst of all, it has done signficantly better than any other M rated game on Wii U. The audience for those types of games on Wii U is too small. Its gotten to the point Nintendo is paying for developers to bring core experience to Wii, but it won't last long.

Ubisoft has no interest in strategically selling games specifically to the Wii U audience. Too much risk, too little reward. Instead they focus on audiences that enjoy their products, the Xbox, Playstation, and PC audience.

The Wii U audience is of little value to Ubisoft's core games. But they will still bring some games to the Wii U.

Also, its not just Ubisoft bailing on Wii U. Numerous developers have given up because that audience basically just wants the kind of experiences Nintendo brings. Even Sega is struggling on the Wii U and they had great success on the Wii.

In a nutshell, you're bitter that developers are continuing to take risks on the Wii U. Maybe Nintendo should take more risks to gain an M rated audience just like MS and Sony do on their platforms.



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for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Wii U owners mostly buy Nintendo or Nintendo-like games. Most of us have another device to game on and the ports on that machine are almost guaranteed to be better than the Wii U version.