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Forums - Sales - X1 will never catch or match PS4 sales, it is a misfired product.

BeElite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Good for Sony. They're gaining back ground they chased away.

Sony and MS don't always make great decisions. As I mentioned before, PS3 and Vita were both misfires. MS screwed up with X1. It happens.


yes it does and this gen is what it is.  PS4 crushing the X1.


Hey, every big company gets crushed at something.

If not Sony's financial situation would be better.



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It might be able to match sales in US but it is being discraced in Europe. Japan will also be a joke for them. So yeah it will never catch up with the PS4 and rightly so. The PS4 is the bettr product with a clear vision and a group of first party studios that will make AAA games exclusively for PS4



Mr Puggsly said:


Hey, every big company gets crushed at something.

If not Sony's financial situation would be better.


Couldnt care less, as long as i get the best product they can go bankrupt for all i care.



Arkaign said:

That's a pretty decent summary. It's hazardous though, and it remains to be seen if Microsoft can switch gears enough to make their Xbox operation profitable with that level of marketshare (30-40M worldwide for the gen, with many of those sales going to be 2nd consoles where multiplats aren't even bought on the system).

The original XB1 plan was to exceed X360 marketshare, and not only that, to combine it with higher software sales (no used games, or heavily restricted used games, which in their mind = more people buying new games or older titles at a controlled price and $$ going straight through them instead of Gamestop/Ebay/etc). The other piece of the monetization puzzle was the media control and paywalled access to the various music/movies/tv sourcing.

So these three pegs :

(1)- Mass marketshare (which amortizes the R&D and initial marketing costs of the product over time to a much greater degree with huge sales vs. modest/poor sales)

(2)- Restricted/controlled game sales to eliminate used/traded games outside of their direct control.

(3)- Paywalls everywhere for all the multimedia functionality.

Have all fallen away. Whatever models they had that the Xbox supporters within the wider Microsoft corporate offices were dreaming of have been ruthlessly shattered by their own lethal mix of arrogance, ignorance, and misunderstanding of how they achieved their gen7 success. Their entire gen8 plans were stratospherically ambitious, and the true financial data on exactly how much it cost to bring the XB1 to market would probably melt your brain if publically disclosed. We know from the financials leaked and officially released that the totality of the Xbox project from inception to OG release through 360 netted Microsoft somewhere around 3.5 billion dollars in the red. The last few years of gen7 showed modest profits, but nothing near enough to make up the losses of the previous years, and nothing near enough to make the effort a worthwhile enterprise to pursue if that was all they could get.

So no, they didn't plan on JUST getting 360-levels of success, they were hoping for a billion console empire, a thousand-year fourth reich emblazoned with golden mountains of profits. 100M consoles to them would probably be seen as a failure on their own terms, and that's WITH the cards stacked the way they wanted with DRM, paywalls, etc. Post 180s, to achieve their same theoretical kingdom of cash, they might need 150-175M sold.

I know how Western corporations are run in the realm of the Fortune 500. They waste money hand over fist. Hell, Mattrick probably got a golden parachute of untold riches and a platinum gulfstream jet on the way out the door, just because that's how they roll. Combining their pencheant for using benjamins to light their cigars and wipe their arses with their batshit insane plans for gen8 manifesting in ludicrous wastes of money like the NFL deal, Kinect2, etc/infinity, it's exceedingly doubtful that XB1 has a chance in hell of seeing a cent of profit even if it lasts a decade.

------------------

Back to your point, IF Microsoft sees the situation for what it is, and the tea leaves WILL get up the chain, because as each quarterly report comes in and they aren't seeing the flood of income that was promised to them arrive, there will be blood, yes heads on pikes all over the place until a reckoning is had. And that reckoning will involve a total transformation of the Xbox philosophy not simply from a PR perspective, but the business plan from the inside out. I can even chart it right here, what would streamline the whole shebang :

(0)- Leave all markets outside of the US/UK. It's a waste of time even shipping anything over there, not to mention the advertising, hiring staff there, supporting the products after the fact, etc. Stick a fork in em, they're more trouble than they're worth at this point.

(1)- Kill Kinect entirely other than supporting the ones already sold. Take the ones currently in warehouses and slap them in boxes with Windows drivers and sell them for $99 a pop as high end webcams for home and business use.

(2)- Stop paying for any non-gaming advertising or licensing for anything to do with Xbox. It's a waste of money and isn't going to deliver anything worthwhile.

(3)- Sell off some bunk studios like Rare, complete with IPs, so as to recoup some of the cash wasted on them.

(4)- Port a bunch of Xbox IPs older titles to the PC through steam. Make them online-only a la Diablo3 if they're worried about piracy, and publish a 12 or 18 month exclusivity policy for new XB1 games so the Xbox fans don't cry too much about Xbox games being on PC. This would bring a ton of extra cash in alone.

(5)- Immediately cease ALL moneyhat activities and DLC/exclusive 3rd party nonsense. It never pays off, and compared to spending that same $$ on new in-house IPS and sequels it's the stupidest thing imaginable.

(6)- DO reinvest a lot of the $$ saved from the above into tons of new titles. Be smart about it, not everything has to be a $100M super AAA set-piece monstrosity. Get tighter teams, put smart people in charge, and shoot for a dozen 10-20M games AND a single massive AAA game per year. Bring back golden IPs like MechWarrior/etc. Put another team to work in porting OG Xbox games with a simple high-res job for 1080p/60fps and sell them for $5/pop through XBLG, as well as packaging them 5 at a time for $19.99 in stores.

(7)- Start some things that really set you apart from Sony instead of just being a 'me-too' console. Give away 90 days of XBLG with every console sold. Pack in a 2nd controller and a half dozen of those XB OG games I spoke of above AND a coupon for any XB1 title published by Microsoft of the user's choice.

(8)- Advertise in a more limited and focused manner, and co-sponsor local gaming tournaments that benefit top charities. Give consoles away to children's hospitals complete with libraries of family friendly titles. Offer free downloads for learning/spelling/math edutainment material for parents of young children.

Overall there's a ton of things they could do to cut the fat, lower operating costs by INSANE percentages, and revamp the Xbox brand into a positive, exciting, and vibrant presence in the marketplace.

Something tells me that's not going to happen though. The same predictable, stale, robotic Xbox brand will trudge forward, utterly oblivious at first to the quicksand they're walking into. Their solution to their problems will be to repeat the same actions like an insane person until it's too late. The last thing we'll hear is 'We're committed to the Xbox brand' right before we see the IPs announced being sold off, the petulant corporate titans having tired of the distraction and embarassment of a project whose entire history amounts to little more than a stain on their Bruno Magli shoes, and whose financial worth is akin to the change in their couch.

That nearly rustled even my Jimmies.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

I didn't think MS ever knew what they were doing with videogames.



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

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I read the entire OP but I have got to go to sleep right this minute so I will just tell you this...

I agree wholeheartedly with all of what you stated.

Maybe tomorrow I will scroll through some of the counter arguments. I'm not opposed to changing my views if someone presents a good enough case. But for now, I think you're spot on.



Very likely in North America it will tie the PS4. The rest of the world however is going to be pretty tough.



Dark_Feanor said:


I always thought PS3 was more powerfull and had better looking games.

Wasn´t until I bought the 360 (because it was cheaper) that I realized that most of multplat used to look better on the Xbox. And I wouldn´t care if it was the other way arroundd. 

You are overestimating what the general public perception is. Do you realise that there are people that thinks iPhones and MacBooks are more powerfull than a Android and PC because the former are more expencive and "look" better?

People don´t do pixel counting. They buy what is cheaper and agregate a interesting value.


That's the thing though.  If people follow what you say, then the x1 will still have a harder time selling.  price parity is there (though it's a gimped version of the x1's original vision) and you still have the inferior hardware.  To add, Sony has always had the more diversified portfolio of games.  The pixel counting is only a bonus.. aggregating to the total value of the PS4.  Yes, the x1 will sell decently when all is said and done, but now that many of the hardcore has already purchased the system of their choice, the only ones left are from the casual crowd (the biggest group).  My opinion is that the PS4 caters better to this casual crowd at their price point, while the x1 at the same parity price point does not.  Face it, the only really selling point to the casual crowd on the x1 front would be the kinect integration.  That's also where most of their "family/group" type games exist.  Without the kinect, I don't see the $399 x1 outselling the $399 ps4 to the casual market and I definitely don't see the same casual market going after the $499 x1 when the kinect is basically an after thought now.  MS put themselves into a hole.  No doubt about it.. the occasional x1 exclusive might spike numbers here and there, but the damage has already been done and the negative public view of the x1 itself will not go away, "PS4 = better rez, better frames, more 1st party devs, better 3rd party games, indie support, etc."  I myself might pick up an x1 one day, but not at $499 or $399.  I'm looking at closer to $250 w/o kinect and $299 with.



Man.. I hate it when your girl has to leave my place to come back to you..

BeElite said:
Mr Puggsly said:


Hey, every big company gets crushed at something.

If not Sony's financial situation would be better.


Couldnt care less, as long as i get the best product they can go bankrupt for all i care.

Exactly.

Worrying about sustainability should come second to worrying about product quality.

I would rather have Sony last 5 years and give me products I want in that time, than have them last 500 years and continuously insult me.



Arkaign said:

(A lot of good stuff)

That was a very nice insightful post. Though I see you are trying to look at things from a wat MS can do perspective I do think you are being too nice.

First problem is that for some strange reason, people give the XBOX brand way too much credit than it deserves. It took the PS brand two whole generations of back to back successes to become as big as they ae today. The success of the PS3 (though in truth a massive loss if you consider lost market share) was primarily due to the fact that there were a lot of people that still saw the PS as their primary console or at least a console that they should own even if just outta habit. The PS brand is bigger than the games it runs, this is why PS doesn't have any real mascot or go to franchsise (unless you consider whatever car is in front of the next GT game a mascot). Every new gen theer are new games that come out for the PS.

Second problem is, while MS can "compete", they cannot "win" purely on a software level. Cause even if MS releases 4 exclusives every year, its not like sony will just suddenly stop making exclusives too. If anything, over the past 3 gens sony has more than MS shown their commitment to not just first party exclusives but new IPs. Most people will be shocked if they look at how many new IPs sony released for the PS2/PS3 compared to the XB/360.

Third, MS has to do what sony did with the PS3. Show the world that it has the best and most exclusives. MS had the multiplats last gen, and you would only buy multiplats on the PS3 if that was your only console. Sony's first party is still here, and now they have the multiplats. So basically the only reason a neatral will buy the XB1 over the PS4 is if they are die hard fans, prefer halo, gears and forza and are indifferent to every other multiplat out there. If sales indications are anything to go by, I don't see this being the case either.

Fourth, and most importantly; who will sell more worldwide if there is price parity? Not just price parity, but at $199. This is what i believe is the biggest trump card of this gen. After 18 months on the market last gen, sony dropped the price of a console that they were losing $200+ on each unit sold from $600 to $400. This gen, they are already selling the PS4 at a profit. What this means is that the price battle will start sooner than last gen. And it already has. I see the XB1/PS4 being at $199-$250 as early as 2016. Question is, if both consoles are $200, what can MS offer than sony isn't and/or offerring better? They can't play the blu-ray or HDD card. They can't play the better multiplats card. They can't even play the more and better exclusives card. And most telling, they can no longer play the we have the better online service plan since right now they are the one cherry picking features from the PSN.

And this is all why I don't see the XB1 doing verying well against the PS4 this gen. Just look at it, there are tons of ifs and tall orders as to why/how MS can make a comback when listenning to anything anyone would suggest. And all those suggstions are made in a vacum. Assuming that PS just sits back and not just do nothing but suddenly start doing worse.

Everything that is being said as to why or how MS can come back, is something that right now is either already being done on PS or done better on PS. Price drop? PS is already cheaper. Go lower? sony can match them. Exclusives? Sony has more and has a history to actually deliver them. Multiplats? PS is the best place to play now. Online service? PS+ is considered to be the better service this gen (proof is in MS changing certain things and becoming more like PS+). Give more power to devs/better APIs? PS is still the more powerful console and still the easier console to work with.

I don't know, I can't imagine or see any sure reasonable thing MS can do for the XB1 that would suddenly make it start doing as well as the PS4...... not to mention better.