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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Shin’en talks Wii U RAM

orniletter said:
RED DEAD REDEMPTION !!!

I loled for 30 seconds straight



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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curl-6 said:
orniletter said:
curl-6 said:
 

This confuses me too; the whole point of the audio DSP is to take a load off the CPU, right? Maybe they didn't need it for Nano Assault cos the CPU still had plenty of room to spare.

That is the most likely scenario ! They are probably using a souped up Wii engine for their games and they  (as you said ) weren´t restricted or "forced" to change anything...did the Wii use a DSP? I can´t for the life of me remeber if it did !

Yes, Wii used a DSP for audio, as did the Gamecube.

A word on engines; Shin'en's games have run on the same engine since Nanostray 2... on the DS.

Yep, you read that right.

Nano Assault's not running on a Wii engine, it's running on a DS engine.


Holy...that is impressive :D !

@DSP info: Thanks for the answer



Mnementh said:

Of all the games currently released or developed probably Pikmin 3 and X make the most use of the hardware, but in different areas. X will need every bit of main memory to reduce visible loading, while Pikmin will utilize the CPU a lot to coordinate all the Pikmin and the enemies. Pikmin needs the CPU much more, that's why I assume they will have used the DSP for the sound.

Didn't Pikmin 1 & 2 have 100 Pikmin at once as well, on the Gamecube?



Mr Khan said:
orniletter said:
RED DEAD REDEMPTION !!!

I loled for 30 seconds straight


I might have scared him away...

maybe forever ???? *crosses fingers*



orniletter said:
jake_the_fake1 said:

That quote right there is the key piece of important information the rest is just fluff. This tells me that the speed of the eDRAM is about the same as it is on the 360 with the difference being the amount of eDRAM, 10MB to 32MB, had the Speed of the WiiU's eDRAM been significantly faster then he would of mentioned it in that very sentence as higher bandwidth is required for 1080p when all assessts remain the same.


The edram in the 360  was on a different chip and crippled by a 32 gb/s bus....in contrast to the edram on the WiiU, which is on the same die !

There is no way in hell that the edram in the WiiU is as slow as the 360´s ( The slim 360´s edram is "faster" than the old 360´s edram, but to keep  the Hardware compatible with the "old 360s" they lowered the bandwith to 32 gb/s too)

Your right, the WiiU's eDRAM isn't slower than the 360's, but then again it may not be significantly faster either, the fact is Nintendo have not revealed any spec of the eDRAM nor has any developer leaked any info, but we can make an educated guess and say the eDRAM bandwidth may be in the same ball park as the 360's eDRAM. All you need to look at is the rest of the WiiU's components from the CPU/GPU to its main ram, none of it is top end hardware, rather the hardware is on the lower end. So based on this one can make the educated guess that the eDRAM would be balanced with the rest of the systems components, we can then conclude, although an educated guess,  that the WiiU's eDRAM has a possible bandwidth of about 40-50GB/s (maybe at the top most if we're pushing it 70GB/s), which is more than enough for a 350GF GPU. 

For reference, the PS4 has a bandwidth of 176GB/s with a GPU capable of doing 1.84TF, the Xbox one has a bandwidth of 170GB/s (comprising of eSRAM @ 102GB/s, DDR3 @ 68GB/s) with a GPU capable of 1.23TF, so the WiiU being a balanced Nintendo machine capable of about 350GF means it wouldn't require any more than what I've concluded with for eDram bandwidth. Keep in mind that just because eDRAM with a bandwidth of 1TB/s exists, doesn't mean the WiiU has it, just look at the Nvidia Titan a 4.5TF GPU, it has a bandwidth of 288GB/s, when you look at the bigger picture of products out there on the market, it becomes easier to see how a bandwidth of 40-50GB/s would be fairly reasonable given WiiU's GPU performance.

I of course can be wrong, and I eagerly await the day were Nintendo themselves, or at least a dev, leak this info, until then we have to take things with a grain of salt, be a little pessimistic and a realist when discussing said Nintendo hardware cuz jumping on the gravy train of 'WiiU eDRAM has a bandwidth 1TB/s cuz it exists’ doesn't move the discussion anywhere but into dreamland.



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Mnementh said:

I agree, most likely the extra-effort (and therefore time and money) wasn't worth the result. As I said, a game like nano Assault doesn't utilize the CPU much, so there probably was no reason to do much.

Of all the games currently released or developed probably Pikmin 3 and X make the most use of the hardware, but in different areas. X will need every bit of main memory to reduce visible loading, while Pikmin will utilize the CPU a lot to coordinate all the Pikmin and the enemies. Pikmin needs the CPU much more, that's why I assume they will have used the DSP for the sound.


Oh, I missed your post :D, thanks for the answer !



jake_the_fake1 said:
As I've said many times on this forum, the WiiU will be capable of some very nice graphics, just look at these last gen console to see the last of US and Halo 4 pushing each respective console, so the WiiU will have no issue in this regard, however, the PS4 and Xbox one will simply blow the WiiU out of the water in every aspect and this will be abundantly clear once we start seeing multiplat tittles on the PS4/Xbox one/WiiU.....if 3rd party bother with multiplat on the WiiU after this year...but that's a problem Nintendo has to fix and a separate topic altogether.


The thing is you are assuming Nintendo fans think the games will look as good as PS4/xbox one. No one thinks that. They simple think the games can look better then the current efforts put out by the ports.



 

 

Cobretti2 said:


The thing is you are assuming Nintendo fans think the games will look as good as PS4/xbox one. No one thinks that. They simple think the games can look better then the current efforts put out by the ports.


This is what I was going to type, nobody believes that the most advanced PS4 games will run on a WiiU, what we Nintendo fans want to make clear is that the U is still a good step up from the PS360 (think PSP vs. 3DS or Dreamcast vs GameCube/XBox) and will show us beautiful games despite it´s technical limitations.

Nintendo has ben obsessed with their memory subsystem since the N64 (which was bandwith starved), the GameCube´s memory was ahead of it´s time and there is literally no single negative comment about the WiiU´s memory syste , they knew what they were doing (inlcuding the huge caches on the CPU. which iirc are as big as the XBoner´s...?)

The very worst estimates I found for the edram were around 72 gb/s (taken from the infamous NeoGaf thread)...memory bandwith is the least of WiiU´s worries.



In an ideal world, Nintendo would make an offer this talented team could not refuse, and they would be under their wing developing SDKs for their hardware and 2~3 full AAA budget games per generation.



curl-6 said:
Mnementh said:

Of all the games currently released or developed probably Pikmin 3 and X make the most use of the hardware, but in different areas. X will need every bit of main memory to reduce visible loading, while Pikmin will utilize the CPU a lot to coordinate all the Pikmin and the enemies. Pikmin needs the CPU much more, that's why I assume they will have used the DSP for the sound.

Didn't Pikmin 1 & 2 have 100 Pikmin at once as well, on the Gamecube?

Yes, but I hope they can do more actions. Also you have the multiplayer modes with 2 times 100 Pikmin. But basically I see at the moment no game for WiiU that makes more usage of the CPU.



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