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Forums - Gaming - Shin’en talks Wii U RAM

let me see if i could understand:
60% of GPU, 33% of CPU of wii U, without effort to develop, can do what x360 cant.
thats it?



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jonathanalis said:
let me see if i could understand:
60% of GPU, 33% of CPU of wii U, without effort to develop, can do what x360 cant.
thats it?

Somewhat. They didn't use the full raw power of any part of Wii U, which is a good sign (considering how their game looks), because that means optimized games for the hardware have potential to look and perform fantastically (which unfortunately ports from PS360 would not be able to take advantage of). Nano Assault looks good for such a small sized game, and it doesn't even make Wii U break a single sweat. Not sure of the GPU, but the CPU is probably a bit more than 1/3 used because they did note that the other 2 cores were ALMOST idle, so probably more like 35 - 40% of the CPU. 

Now if they would make a game that wasn't only 100MB, wonder what they'll be able to do....



Basically, no one (not even Nintendo) has come close to using the system properly and at its peak performance.

This is a good thing and a bad because it means there is potential for great games beyond what we have seen on the 360 or PS3. The bad part is that a lot of systems rarely get tapped out to begin with meaning we may never see anyone get close. So ultimately it will all be dependent on the developer actually using the system hardware which isn't even a guarantee with most Nintendo games.



hellovgc said:
Basically it's slightly better than xbox360 is what he is saying.


Not at all what he's saying.  #1 he's pretty much only talking about the eDRAM and #2 he said that the Wii U did with ease what the 360 couldn't do at all.



It took a long time, but people are finally realising that RAM bandwidth is not the limiting factor when developing for Wii U. People were spouting figures based on a quick glance at DDR3 RAM stick, completely ignoring the actual complaints that devs had about the console. RAM bandwidth was never even mentioned by them.

That said, there does seem to be some difficulty in getting the most out of the system. Probably due to devs not having the time or resources to completely rewrite their engines to take advantage of the Wii U's architecture.



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Locknuts said:
It took a long time, but people are finally realising that RAM bandwidth is not the limiting factor when developing for Wii U. People were spouting figures based on a quick glance at DDR3 RAM stick, completely ignoring the actual complaints that devs had about the console. RAM bandwidth was never even mentioned by them.

That said, there does seem to be some difficulty in getting the most out of the system. Probably due to devs not having the time or resources to completely rewrite their engines to take advantage of the Wii U's architecture.

Took people and "experts" a long time because they think one single metric pretty much answers everything. I think there are still people around who think that the console is somehow bottlenecked at the bandwidth.

All of the complaints that have come from developers were ones who were porting an existing or an in-development game. Likely not having time or enough resources to fully take advantage of the hardware is what leads many to falsely believe it performs badly in a certain parts. Interestingly enough, there haven't been any complaints about the RAM being too slow, even from those who were porting the games. The positive feedback usually comes from developers who actually took time to understand the console (Criterion for example), and those who develop from the ground up (Shin'en and Ubisoft for example). Some people have overestimated Wii U (mainly the internet), but some are unfortunately underestimating it as well, and the system not selling well is likely going to keep developers from trying to invest in making full sense of the architecture. I mean when EA said that Wii U was less powerful than 360, I mean really? 



orniletter said:
RED DEAD REDEMPTION !!!

"A bunch of nobodies on neogaf are more reliable than this developer with a track record of technical excellence, no history of lying, and actual experience with the hardware!" XD

Seriously though, Nano Assault Neo looking as nice as it does while being unoptimised, running at 60fps, totalling less than 100MB, and being a launch title made by 5 people, is a good sign.

Shin'en are great at cutting through the bullshit and giving detailed answers about how Wii U's innards work where other devs just give vague blanket statements.

Hopefully their next Wii U project, hinted as being a sequel to FAST Racing League, will show off more of what the system can do.



curl-6 said:
orniletter said:
RED DEAD REDEMPTION !!!

"A bunch of nobodies on neogaf are more reliable than this developer with a track record of technical excellence, no history of lying, and actual experience with the hardware!" XD

Seriously though, Nano Assault Neo looking as nice as it does while being unoptimised, running at 60fps, totalling less than 100MB, and being a launch title made by 5 people, is a good sign.

Shin'en are great at cutting through the bullshit and giving detailed answers about how Wii U's innards work where other devs just give vague blanket statements.

Hopefully their next Wii U project, hinted as being a sequel to FAST Racing League, will show off more of what the system can do.

Unfortunately some people have to come up with some negative responses to positive Wii U feedback like they usually do. But I'd have to say that they have to take better advantage of the hardware and make their next game more effort than just 100MB, which is impressive. Even if it was 1000MB, the entire game would fit in perfectly in the RAM! ;)

As for why Shin'en give detailed answers, I think it's probably because they are indie's, they can't talk much about everything but they can speak out more than larger companies. 



forethought14 said:
curl-6 said:
orniletter said:
RED DEAD REDEMPTION !!!

"A bunch of nobodies on neogaf are more reliable than this developer with a track record of technical excellence, no history of lying, and actual experience with the hardware!" XD

Seriously though, Nano Assault Neo looking as nice as it does while being unoptimised, running at 60fps, totalling less than 100MB, and being a launch title made by 5 people, is a good sign.

Shin'en are great at cutting through the bullshit and giving detailed answers about how Wii U's innards work where other devs just give vague blanket statements.

Hopefully their next Wii U project, hinted as being a sequel to FAST Racing League, will show off more of what the system can do.

Unfortunately some people have to come up with some negative responses to positive Wii U feedback like they usually do. But I'd have to say that they have to take better advantage of the hardware and make their next game more effort than just 100MB, which is impressive. Even if it was 1000MB, the entire game would fit in perfectly in the RAM! ;)

I think it's that Nano Assault Neo was a very simple game, and Shin'en have a habit of being as economical as possible with resources, due to their roots developing on systems like the GBA and DS, and Wiiware's 40MB file limit. 

They had a game that they wanted to make, and they only needed a fraction of the system's power to achieve it.



curl-6 said:
forethought14 said:

Unfortunately some people have to come up with some negative responses to positive Wii U feedback like they usually do. But I'd have to say that they have to take better advantage of the hardware and make their next game more effort than just 100MB, which is impressive. Even if it was 1000MB, the entire game would fit in perfectly in the RAM! ;)

I think it's that Nano Assault Neo was a very simple game, and Shin'en have a habit of being as economical as possible with resources, due to their roots developing on systems like the GBA and DS, and Wiiware's 40MB file limit. 

They had a game that they wanted to make, and they only needed a fraction of the system's power to achieve it.

They probably were playing it safe considering their past, and the fact that only the main CPU core was doing most of the work, and who knows how fully were they using the main CPU core. But I'm sure that their next game would finally get them to tap further into the hardware. They seem to understand it, but Nano Assault just wasn't their showcase of proving that they fully understand it. It's good to get tidbits from them though, getting info from them is great since most developers either keep quiet, or have nothing good to say. :)