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Forums - Nintendo - Where should Zelda go next?

 

What do you think is the best step forward for Zelda?

New Zelda for 3DS 15 10.87%
 
New Zelda for Wii U 66 47.83%
 
More remakes, please! 8 5.80%
 
Back to the second dimension 10 7.25%
 
Retro Studios for life 14 10.14%
 
Whatever Nintendo thinks is good 13 9.42%
 
Doesn't matter to me 2 1.45%
 
Kill it 5 3.62%
 
See results 5 3.62%
 
Total:138

Though I enjoy a game with a great story and linear gameplay, that's not what I am looking for in a Zelda game.



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After some careful thought, I have a few initial ideas I'd like to see in a new Zelda game. Emphasis on "initial".

[1] Instant fast travel. In all honestly, I don't mind long travel times very much... but it's awful when backtracking from one place to another on the opposite side of the game. If a Zelda game is to be massive in scope, I would love to see a quick fast travel system not unlike the one in Xenoblade Chronicles. Makes backtracking easy as pie. I'd at least settle for a system where the save statues act as warp points.

[2] Make the world more interesting. One of the problems I've had with certain Zelda games is that the overworlds are largely uninteresting stretches of grassland/ocean/sky/whatever. I don't have an issue with epic scale on paper, but the world itself should be varied in presentation and/or filled to the brim with interesting challenges and shiny objects (once again I'd like to point to Xenoblade as an example). In other words, I don't want Nintendo to leave a ton of empty space this time around. I'd especially like something a bit like Skyward Sword's land areas, but on a larger scale and a more open structure.

[3] Make tutorials more fun. Instead of having contrived narrative instances where you're taught how to perform actions, why not make (at least some of them) optional? Perhaps the first town might have a training ground for you to practice swordplay, archery, and such. Or better yet, Nintendo could build fun minigames devoted to teaching and mastering the controls. Something to make the learning process rewarding. And they should make these minigames readily available at the beginning rather than having the player unlock them later on though side-quests (something Skyward Sword is guilty of).

[4] It must be harder. No excuses. In the age of Sheikah Stones and overly helpful partners, Nintendo shouldn't have to worry about scaring away new audiences. They should take a page from DKCR and use these features as a reason to pump up the intensity further. I don't see the series adding adjustable difficulty (Miyamoto doesn't like that), but the ability to turn off hints (one of the many reasons why Metroid Prime is awesome) would be more than welcome, especially after the first playthrough. Plus, harder difficulty makes everything more rewarding. Even particularly painful fetch quests to receive mere Pieces of Heart become meaningful.

[5] Stop moving. Zelda needs to drop motion controls for the time being. Nintendo has done nearly everything it could in that space (until Wii Remote Plus Plus comes out), so it's time to take advantage of new technology (specifically the uPad). Sure, I may not enjoy the combat as much anymore, but I also think a Zelda game should take advantage of its respective console's features. Otherwise, the Zelda series would lose its place at the forefront of innovative design and technology. And that would really suck.



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archbrix said:

No, I'm not limiting it at all.  You're confusing a 1st person perspective design choice with what I'm saying about z-axis gameplay.  Super Mario 64 is not 1st person, it's 3rd person.  But it doesn't change the fact that the way the player guides Mario through the game is now done differently because of the z-axis gameplay.

I've already addressed remaining true to the original.  Games like Prime, Ocarina and Mario maintain many of their gameplay staples in the transition from 2D to 3D, and they do so admirably.  But again, the inclusion of depth that the 3rd dimension brings changes the gameplay.  Link does not simply move according to an x & y-axis at all in Ocarina.  I really don't know how you can say that he does.  He moves in and out of the screen and the gameplay must be adapted to that.  In other words, gameplay is no longer limited to flat planes of movement anymore and therefore follows different principles. 

Unless you're just talking about polygonal characters on a 2D plane with a fixed camera, then I stand by my assessment.

The vertical movement to different planes on the Z axis in Zelda does little to radically alter things from 2D to 3D, as LttP can testify.

I'm not trying to stump you, just trying to get you to think outside the box.

3D =/= radical, irreversible change.



tough question!
for one, cut all the crap from the beginning of the game. I don't want a 10 hour introduction! I don't want a 1 hour introduction!
another thing would be to hand the next installment over to Retro so they can shake the dust off of the design...
I agree about keeping the RPG elements and economy from SS but making them more useful by increasing the challenge.
Also agree to allowing you to keep playing after you've finished the main quest, this was sorely missing in TP.
add more interesting NPCs with charismatic and memorable personalities, voice acting too!
Remove the annoying banter from your assistant, or remove the assistant altogether if you can't make it interesting! (I remember liking Ezlo more than some of the more recent ones because he had personality).
SS felt too much like a playground and not enough like a real world that has been lived in.
No mandatory fetch-quests!



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F0X said:

After some careful thought, I have a few initial ideas I'd like to see in a new Zelda game. Emphasis on "initial".

[1] Instant fast travel. In all honestly, I don't mind long travel times very much... but it's awful when backtracking from one place to another on the opposite side of the game. If a Zelda game is to be massive in scope, I would love to see a quick fast travel system not unlike the one in Xenoblade Chronicles. Makes backtracking easy as pie. I'd at least settle for a system where the save statues act as warp points.


Yeah man, if only they implemented some sort of quick travel so I wouldn't have to run anywhere. Like.. what if they had some sort of magical instrument that, when you played a certain song, teleported you somewhere? Oh man I love this idea. They could use an eclectic instrument that most people never see, like an Ocarina.



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wfz said:

Yeah man, if only they implemented some sort of quick travel so I wouldn't have to run anywhere. Like.. what if they had some sort of magical instrument that, when you played a certain song, teleported you somewhere? Oh man I love this idea. They could use an eclectic instrument that most people never see, like an Ocarina.

oh em gee, YES!



wfz said:
F0X said:

After some careful thought, I have a few initial ideas I'd like to see in a new Zelda game. Emphasis on "initial".

[1] Instant fast travel. In all honestly, I don't mind long travel times very much... but it's awful when backtracking from one place to another on the opposite side of the game. If a Zelda game is to be massive in scope, I would love to see a quick fast travel system not unlike the one in Xenoblade Chronicles. Makes backtracking easy as pie. I'd at least settle for a system where the save statues act as warp points.


Yeah man, if only they implemented some sort of quick travel so I wouldn't have to run anywhere. Like.. what if they had some sort of magical instrument that, when you played a certain song, teleported you somewhere? Oh man I love this idea. They could use an eclectic instrument that most people never see, like an Ocarina.

You're funny. What I have in mind doesn't require playing a specific song for each destination (one of the more annoying aspects of Ocarina of Time). Think more along the lines of Twilight Princess's system where you could fast travel from anywhere in the overworld, but using save statues as destination points (a la Majora's Mask).



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

happydolphin said:
archbrix said:

No, I'm not limiting it at all.  You're confusing a 1st person perspective design choice with what I'm saying about z-axis gameplay.  Super Mario 64 is not 1st person, it's 3rd person.  But it doesn't change the fact that the way the player guides Mario through the game is now done differently because of the z-axis gameplay.

I've already addressed remaining true to the original.  Games like Prime, Ocarina and Mario maintain many of their gameplay staples in the transition from 2D to 3D, and they do so admirably.  But again, the inclusion of depth that the 3rd dimension brings changes the gameplay.  Link does not simply move according to an x & y-axis at all in Ocarina.  I really don't know how you can say that he does.  He moves in and out of the screen and the gameplay must be adapted to that.  In other words, gameplay is no longer limited to flat planes of movement anymore and therefore follows different principles. 

Unless you're just talking about polygonal characters on a 2D plane with a fixed camera, then I stand by my assessment.

The vertical movement to different planes on the Z axis in Zelda does little to radically alter things from 2D to 3D, as LttP can testify.

I'm not trying to stump you, just trying to get you to think outside the box.

3D =/= radical, irreversible change.

You're still confusing the gameplay of different 2D planes (ALttP) with a fully realized 3D space (Ocarina).

The gameplay in ALttP still takes place on a 2D plane.  Link can go up and down stairs, but he goes from one x & y-axis plane to another.  Not so in Ocarina, where depth adds a z-axis principle and movement theoretically exists in every direction.



archbrix said:

You're still confusing the gameplay of different 2D planes (ALttP) with a fully realized 3D space (Ocarina).

The gameplay in ALttP still takes place on a 2D plane.  Link can go up and down stairs, but he goes from one x & y-axis plane to another.  Not so in Ocarina, where depth adds a z-axis principle and movement theoretically exists in every direction.

I understand what you mean, but do you see what I mean? Suppose for a moment that Link's items consisted of all the items in Zelda NES: sword, shield and all the other items, but there was not real important use of aiming the bow, and the game didn't permit you to extensively, it only gave you a moment to tilt the analog and that's it. No 1st person perspective, no latency, just items and enemies.

I don't see how the NES and that experience would be so different. Assuming the puzzles were limited to a 2D plane, I don't see really the difference.

I think you're starting to see what I mean. Get rid of the complexities 3D can offer. Now in a simplified 3D game dynamic, how could the experience be more NES like.

I know this all sounds like pussy-footing, but I just wanted to put it out there that 3D doesn't automatically say "Complexity", "Latency", but that such things were up to the developer to choose.

Another example. What ever happened to the knockback from Zelda I and Zelda II? Why does that all of a sudden have to dissappear when you enter a 3D world? what about the jump and stab mechanic, why did that leave all of a sudden? Because the worlds needed to look more believeable? But that isn't mandatory. Do you see what I mean now?



RolStoppable said:
wfz said:
F0X said:

After some careful thought, I have a few initial ideas I'd like to see in a new Zelda game. Emphasis on "initial".

[1] Instant fast travel. In all honestly, I don't mind long travel times very much... but it's awful when backtracking from one place to another on the opposite side of the game. If a Zelda game is to be massive in scope, I would love to see a quick fast travel system not unlike the one in Xenoblade Chronicles. Makes backtracking easy as pie. I'd at least settle for a system where the save statues act as warp points.

Yeah man, if only they implemented some sort of quick travel so I wouldn't have to run anywhere. Like.. what if they had some sort of magical instrument that, when you played a certain song, teleported you somewhere? Oh man I love this idea. They could use an eclectic instrument that most people never see, like an Ocarina.

You should have played Xenoblade before making a fool out of yourself. There are two problems with the instrument mechanic:

1) It isn't instantly available, meaning that a game of massive scope isn't inviting to explore (and that's what Zelda should be).

2) Playing a song each time you want to fast-travel is very tiresome.

From a world perspective, Xenoblade kicks Zelda so hard in the nuts that it isn't funny anymore. Where Zelda stands for tedium, Xenoblade stands for convenience. Although admittedly, Twilight Princess at least avoided the problem of playing a song. But then came Skyward Sword who threw much of the convenience overboard again. No warp mechanic, plus unskippable cutscenes and slow screentexts were back.

Making save statues double function as travel points right from the outset is a great idea for the next Zelda game.

You are such a firecracker Rol, I find it humorous. You and Malstrom are very similar in your spicy, harsh, far-sided opinion on things and the way you treat others.

Considering those Ocarina tunes are some of the most memorable Zelda songs and also one of my favorite aspects of OoT and MM, I would definitely disagree with you on that one. I felt like it added a lot more spirit to the game. If you can just teleport anywhere you want anytime (like Twilight Princess) I would feel like it really takes away a certain element of magic and spice to the game. The Zelda overworlds are never very huge and hardly require much backtracking compared to more open world RPGs like Xenoblade chronicles, so I think the model used in MM and OoT work perfectly fine. 

Oh and those save statues from MM acted as quick travel points. Yeah yeah, you had to play a single song to pick one to fly to, but it was more similar to the idea you seem keen on.

If Zelda were to go to a more open-world game, I'd just want it to copy MM's system. There are random save points around the world that you can unlock and, when unlocked, play a song similar to the Song of Soaring to choose your destination.