Hus said: shams said: By that reasoning, it will win - as the Wii is an easy port from the PS2 (the most successful console ever), whereas the other 2 platforms are not. dude is that supposed to be serious ? ........................ shams said: - HD / graphics *cannot* hurt the Wii. Its already accepted that it has WORSE graphics - this can only hurt the 360/PS3. they already are, PS3 Madden out sold wii madden. All of Ea's sports games will do better on PS3/360, with Ea having to make a specific wii version... will it be worth it for them. Wii with twice the units is getting outsold. shams said: - 3rd party support can only (partially) hurt the Wii. Nintendo will always support it, and this is where most sales come from. If the Wii succeeds in the market, economics ensures that 3rd-party support will follow. madden economics dont help. Spend 20 mill on a PS3/360 version... and then 10 mill on a wii...... that sells less then the PS3 version. shams said: - online (or lack of) can't hurt it. Firstly we *know* its coming (and it does work) - so its just a matter of time. Secondly people have been going gaga over the Wii - without any significant online support (except for VC). Online can only be a bonus - not a negative (although it could shorten its lifetime). time is the wiis enemy... between live and home wiis online will be a joke.

Hus, you are missing the point. The Wii is booming *now*. For it to fail, something has to change between NOW and the FUTURE to make it fail. If the Wii trends like it is trending now, it will easily take the #1 spot and be anything BUT a failure:

(not sure what happened to the quoting here - mismatch between the old/new?)

 

1/ Yes - porting a PS2 (or a GC or Xbox1) game to the Wii is *much* easier than to the PS3 or 360. Do you debate this? Stat another thread for it ;)

 2/ That's my point - Madden will always sell better on higher graphics platforms. This isn't something unexpected. The Wii costs a *fraction* of the development cost of the PS3/360 version - and regardless - is STILL turning a profit. Madden isn't a game you would expect to become "awesome" through the inclusion of the Wiimote (but if it does - that's an extra bonus).

3/ Duh. Spend 20mill on a PS3/360 version, and *5* million developing Wii/PS2/Xbox/GC versions. Both turn a profit (PS3 *less* likely to), so its irrelevant. The Wii version *will* sell more than the GC versions did - and EA kept up support for that. So your point is a dud.

4/ Now that statement reeks of fanboy-ism. I thought you were trying to make an intelligent point ;)

The GC was never online. The Wii is booming with NO online games. MS (and to a lesser extend Sony) both rely on online for key games (Resistance, Live, etc).

The Wii will only get stronger - not weaker - once online games come out and make an impact.

If the Wii had no online capabilities, I would agree that no online would be a potential killer. But it does (and in some ways, has more powerful online if the WiiConnect24 actually turns out to be useful).

 

The wii isn't going to fail.  The 360 will, its market share has been plummeting lately, while the wii just goes up.  

 That being said, while the wii might just win the battle this round, sony has a lot of aces up its sleave.

-Home.  Need I say more?

-Better games coming out

-Improved playstation network

-more sales from Blu-ray users (movies)

 

 

d: Hus, you are missing the point. The Wii is booming *now*. For it to fail, something has to change between NOW and the FUTURE to make it fail. If the Wii trends like it is trending now, it will easily take the #1 spot and be anything BUT a failure: (not sure what happened to the quoting here - mismatch between the old/new?)   1/ Yes - porting a PS2 (or a GC or Xbox1) game to the Wii is *much* easier than to the PS3 or 360. Do you debate this? Stat another thread for it ;) 2/ That's my point - Madden will always sell better on higher graphics platforms. This isn't something unexpected. The Wii costs a *fraction* of the development cost of the PS3/360 version - and regardless - is STILL turning a profit. Madden isn't a game you would expect to become "awesome" through the inclusion of the Wiimote (but if it does - that's an extra bonus). 3/ Duh. Spend 20mill on a PS3/360 version, and *5* million developing Wii/PS2/Xbox/GC versions. Both turn a profit (PS3 *less* likely to), so its irrelevant. The Wii version *will* sell more than the GC versions did - and EA kept up support for that. So your point is a dud. 4/ Now that statement reeks of fanboy-ism. I thought you were trying to make an intelligent point ;) The GC was never online. The Wii is booming with NO online games. MS (and to a lesser extend Sony) both rely on online for key games (Resistance, Live, etc). The Wii will only get stronger - not weaker - once online games come out and make an impact. If the Wii had no online capabilities, I would agree that no online would be a potential killer. But it does (and in some ways, has more powerful online if the WiiConnect24 actually turns out to be useful).

 1 I just dont see how geting PS2 ports help the wii.... old ass games that everyone alredy played ?

 2/3  If wii 3rd party keeps getting out sold by PS3 and 360 versions, why create games more games for it ?  wii is not getting army of two or mercenaries.  Wii versions would be a waste of time and money for them.  Its better to make a 360/PS3/PC game then a wii game.  They will support it to a point, not as much as the others.

4 you honestly think wii can compete with live and home  ?  ... not just gaming but movies, music tv shows.. trailers demos.... ? 

 Wii is rinding a wave of popularity right now that wont last long,  360 and PS3 will get alot stronger while wiis inferiority becomes more and more apperant. 

 

 

 

Hus said: shams said: By that reasoning, it will win - as the Wii is an easy port from the PS2 (the most successful console ever), whereas the other 2 platforms are not. dude is that supposed to be serious ? ........................ shams said: - HD / graphics *cannot* hurt the Wii. Its already accepted that it has WORSE graphics - this can only hurt the 360/PS3. they already are, PS3 Madden out sold wii madden. All of Ea's sports games will do better on PS3/360, with Ea having to make a specific wii version... will it be worth it for them. Wii with twice the units is getting outsold. shams said: - 3rd party support can only (partially) hurt the Wii. Nintendo will always support it, and this is where most sales come from. If the Wii succeeds in the market, economics ensures that 3rd-party support will follow. madden economics dont help. Spend 20 mill on a PS3/360 version... and then 10 mill on a wii...... that sells less then the PS3 version. shams said: - online (or lack of) can't hurt it. Firstly we *know* its coming (and it does work) - so its just a matter of time. Secondly people have been going gaga over the Wii - without any significant online support (except for VC). Online can only be a bonus - not a negative (although it could shorten its lifetime). time is the wiis enemy... between live and home wiis online will be a joke.

Note this is for USA.

First: PS3 Madden has outsold Wii Madden, BUT CoD3 Wii has outsold CoD3 PS3.

Second: The best 3rd party on Wii has sold more than the best 3rd party on PS3. The second best Wii 3rd party game has sold as much as the best selling 3rd party title on PS3

Third: There is more 3rd party software sales on Wii than on PS3 for the moment. Wii (3rd party) has 3 games above 300k, 3 games above 200k, 5 games above 100k. PS3 (3rd Party) has 1 game above 300k, 1 game above 200k and 6 games above 100k.

If you are going to state something about 3rd party software sales, do it correctly please and don't just use the numbers you want to show.

 

Hus said: 1 I just dont see how geting PS2 ports help the wii.... old ass games that everyone alredy played ? 2/3 If wii 3rd party keeps getting out sold by PS3 and 360 versions, why create games more games for it ? wii is not getting army of two or mercenaries. Wii versions would be a waste of time and money for them. Its better to make a 360/PS3/PC game then a wii game. They will support it to a point, not as much as the others. 4 you honestly think wii can compete with live and home ? ... not just gaming but movies, music tv shows.. trailers demos.... ? Wii is rinding a wave of popularity right now that wont last long, 360 and PS3 will get alot stronger while wiis inferiority becomes more and more apperant.

1/ One of the failings of the GC was no/little 3rd-party support. This has already been reversed with the Wii. Companies are concerned that this transition will take too long, and cost too much money. One easy way to soften this, is to re-release PS2 titles on the Wii (updated controls, etc). This is a good thing for several reasons:

a) Good publicity, lots of shelf space

b) Those with most games, usually (always?) win

c) *if* the titles actually sell units, the publisher will be inclined to create sequels, and keep this going. More Wii development is good for Nintendo. Some publishers (i.e. Majesco - Cooking Mama) will pull out of the "next-gen" title race completely, fearing they can't compete. The Wii is a perfect platform for them to attack.

d) Every extra title released on the Wii *will* sell units. May not be a lot of units, but at least some. So this is a bonus.

 2,3/ Apart from the wrong numbers (see above post), its not always about *raw* units. We never really know the real development cost of titles, and if the title is a "port" it is often done out-of-house, and for a very small sum of money (ports can cost 10% or less of the original/full cost of development). This isn't a simple, "single" answer for this - but quite often, a Wii version can be more profitable than a PS3 one.

4/ Technically - there isn't *anything* in Home or Live that can't be done on a Wii. Sure the graphics won't be as pretty - but that's already a known. And Home is still an unknown - its nothing like Live at all (as MS said - it has nothing to do with gaming). How many people will buy a PS3 just to muck around with Home?

The only thing the Wii is really missing is a hard-disk - and as we all know, that is something that is quite easy to buy/add as an add-on (esp. with easy to use USB ports).

Im not sure Nintendo care about video proviews, IP-TV, etc. They have always move away from size heavy content (movies, music, etc...) in preference of gameplay. From their point of view, that stuff COSTS money - and generates none. They haven't competed there in the past, and Im not sure why they would do so now.

... 

But I'll give you that point (in terms of this thread). One way the Wii can suffer, is if the other consoles prove to be successful in distributing/selling videos, music, TV to home users. If this does happen, I think you'll see Nintendo release either a Wii hard-disk add-on, or an updated model of the Wii (less likely). 

That said - I think the Wii could be a much more successful VoIP (Internet phone) console than either the 360 or PS3 - and I think that has massive killer-app potential.

I suspect by the middle of this console cycle the Wii will have over half the global market: i.e. the idea that 360+PS3 > Wii won't last for long (although I wouldn't be surprised to see that reverse again as the 360/PS3 prices come down to earth).

robjoh said: Hus said: shams said: By that reasoning, it will win - as the Wii is an easy port from the PS2 (the most successful console ever), whereas the other 2 platforms are not. dude is that supposed to be serious ? ........................ shams said: - HD / graphics *cannot* hurt the Wii. Its already accepted that it has WORSE graphics - this can only hurt the 360/PS3. they already are, PS3 Madden out sold wii madden. All of Ea's sports games will do better on PS3/360, with Ea having to make a specific wii version... will it be worth it for them. Wii with twice the units is getting outsold. shams said: - 3rd party support can only (partially) hurt the Wii. Nintendo will always support it, and this is where most sales come from. If the Wii succeeds in the market, economics ensures that 3rd-party support will follow. madden economics dont help. Spend 20 mill on a PS3/360 version... and then 10 mill on a wii...... that sells less then the PS3 version. shams said: - online (or lack of) can't hurt it. Firstly we *know* its coming (and it does work) - so its just a matter of time. Secondly people have been going gaga over the Wii - without any significant online support (except for VC). Online can only be a bonus - not a negative (although it could shorten its lifetime). time is the wiis enemy... between live and home wiis online will be a joke. Note this is for USA. First: PS3 Madden has outsold Wii Madden, BUT CoD3 Wii has outsold CoD3 PS3. Second: The best 3rd party on Wii has sold more than the best 3rd party on PS3. The second best Wii 3rd party game has sold as much as the best selling 3rd party title on PS3 Third: There is more 3rd party software sales on Wii than on PS3 for the moment. Wii (3rd party) has 3 games above 300k, 3 games above 200k, 5 games above 100k. PS3 (3rd Party) has 1 game above 300k, 1 game above 200k and 6 games above 100k. If you are going to state something about 3rd party software sales, do it correctly please and don't just use the numbers you want to show. Â

The swede has a point here. Besides, the main reason why PS3 Madden outsold Wii Madden, was that PS3 dont come with a game. Casino Royale dont much help if you want to play games. And Madden is popular in the US and its an easy-to-access game (like Wii Sports). So even with PS3 people dont necessarily want complex games, they want what Wii has to offer. But 3rd party support (or possible lack of it, which seems unlikely), is the only reason i see why Wii could "fail". HDTV doesnt possibly mean anything, because people buing HDTV:s are buing it because its new and same people buys Wiis because its something new. Besides, when they buy HD sets and watch SD programs, they get disappointed and wont believe that 360 and PS3 will look any better, so its the same to buy Wii. With Wiis HD output, it will look much better than TV programs they have watched with the new TV. By the way, Wii does support HD, it can do the lower HD, which is 480p.

shams said: Nintendo stated a goal of selling 60mill units for the Wii. Currently 10% there, supply limited, still hard to get one. At this stage I think it will be hard for Nintendo to NOT reach their 60mill goal - the biggest restriction at the moment is manufacturing.

Oh, I forgot about manufacturing. That is really a reason, why the Wii possibly not win this gen. Especially christmas. Think before christmas is a demand of 5-6 million Wii in US and Europe combined (i dont think christmas is a big deal in japan). If Nintendo can only deliver 2 million units, the other consoles possibly sell more. That would hurt really. So we should hope, that Nintendo can increase production until then enough.

shams said: What could hurt/fail the Wii? 1/ MS bring out a controller that completely emulates the Wiimote (not sure of legal implications), or beats it.

Sony did it, with the Sixaxis. But I think this is no competition for the Wiimote, because you need both hands to hold it (no swings like in tennis) and it is not the default controller. Same problem would have Microsoft.

shams said: 2/ A massive earthquake in Japan kills most of the staff at Nintendo development studios (please no!! ).

Yeah, or a meteorit hits the nintendo-building.

shams said: 4/ A fatal flaw in the hardware, kills off 95% of Wii's / Wiimotes overnight (or a virus?).

Hui, I hope Nintendo made enough quality to prevent this.

So the question is : "what can prevent the Wii from winning (selling the most consoles) this generation ?".
People here keep citing problems from Nintendo. Well, I think this is nonsense : no problem from Nintendo can ever make the Wii fail.
For example, online games are not even there yet in most of the world for the Wii. And Nintendo didn't even release most of their hardcore games yet.
So no, Nintendo won't be the cause for the Wii not winning.

The reason for the Wii not winning will be completely outside Nintendo power.
I see several things :
- 3rd parties continue making crappy games for the Wii. Wii owners are not that stupid, there's no way we will buy so many crappy games. They'd better get their act together, instead of saying "we don't sell on Nintendo consoles". They don't sell crap on Nintendo console, because Nintendo has lots of games setting the standard in many genres, and they'd better come up with sth close in quality. People see Nintendo games, and won't go for much poorer ones after that.
- Manufactor. Somehow, the Wii must be produced at a far higher pace to sustain the holidays. 1.2M/month won't be enough. Of course, they have to prevent warehousing, so they will look at what happens with 1.2M/month during the slow summer period. But if they sell out during summer (would be even more amazing), 1.5M/month in August won't be enough. If they sell 600k/month in summer period, 1.5M/month in August will be enough.
- XB360 gets all PS3 3rd parties, including FFXIII : this would put so much support behind XB360, that it would skyrocket its sales. Well, It would need 1 year at least to port though, IMHO. Success of PS3 in Europe can prevent that from happening.
- XB360 gets all the japanese games support for western area. Same as above. The success in Europe will hopefully prevents that from happening. Which is why a success of PS3 in Europe is good for both PS3 and the Wii.

Some things I think are wrong :
- HD won't change a thing. That's a hardcore dream. Most people don't care about all these numbers, they just want a big screen that is future proof, and not too expensive. If they cared about all these numbers and all the quality, they would not buy all these LCD sets, which are the worse quality wise, which is a well known fact of LCD makers, who hope price and time will help them make them sell and make it even with the best technologies (which is just what happens) eventually. Those that buy the smaller sets (< 40") is just because they are lighter and thinner, and they see it as more value than the cheaper SD sets. Most importantly, the people that buy these sets for games are a tiny niche. And just like they won't stop watching SD contents on them, they won't stop playing SD games either.
- Even if the Wii is a fad, if Nintendo can sell Brain Age/Academy till now on DS, they will sell them on Wii too for at least 2 years. DS introduced these franchises to casuals already, so this is millions of casual buyers potential. An online version would be a killer. The channels are very good too.

Come on, HD will be around 100% in about 5 years how long is the Wii suppose to last, 5-6 years, well that must mean the Wii will fail, come on it's the same thing everytime, and Devs aren't compaining cause why would they be trying to put extra support to the Wii. And why get on Nintendo for making a good game, nobody crawls up Microsoft's ass cause Halo sales really well, Since when has making a good game been a problem!