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Forums - Politics Discussion - Sam Harris Drops Patreon - Other Creators Follow

KLAMarine said:
What did Sargon of Akkad do to get himself removed?

Okay, I can understand why Patreon removed him: https://patreonhq.com/hate-speech-on-patreon-a9026e52c2cf

Certainly some spicy language, to say the least...

Will listen to it in its full context later on (assuming this is where it happens): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74llFWdeKNM



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betacon said:
KLAMarine said:
What did Sargon of Akkad do to get himself removed?

Nothing other than being right winged and the Pateron not wanting him to have a platform to spread his opinion.

Ok, and? Why does this guy deserve a platform? He has a right to speak but he doesn't have a right to a megaphone. Why don't conservatives get this? You're not entitled to someone else's site or service. Just as I can kick someone out of my house for saying something I don't like you can get kicked off a website for the same reason. The first amendment protects you from the government and violence not people telling you to shut up



There isn't any money in Patreon closing an entire political spectrum out of their site. So I'm kind of suspicious of the validity of these concerns. It seems to me like these internet figures always ride too close to the line.



collint0101 said:
betacon said:

Nothing other than being right winged and the Pateron not wanting him to have a platform to spread his opinion.

Ok, and? Why does this guy deserve a platform? He has a right to speak but he doesn't have a right to a megaphone. Why don't conservatives get this? You're not entitled to someone else's site or service. Just as I can kick someone out of my house for saying something I don't like you can get kicked off a website for the same reason. The first amendment protects you from the government and violence not people telling you to shut up

I think this is a consequence of the entitlement many feel in this era of social media. We have taken internet and social networks for granted that some of us seem to sometimes confuse them with free speech. We should demand more from our governments and never confuse them with private companies but it seems to often be mixed up by some people. That said, it´s up to Sam Harris to cancel his account for whatever reason he has, that´s the power of us as consumers. I don´t buy his reasoning though.



collint0101 said:
betacon said:

Nothing other than being right winged and the Pateron not wanting him to have a platform to spread his opinion.

Ok, and? Why does this guy deserve a platform? He has a right to speak but he doesn't have a right to a megaphone. Why don't conservatives get this? You're not entitled to someone else's site or service. Just as I can kick someone out of my house for saying something I don't like you can get kicked off a website for the same reason. The first amendment protects you from the government and violence not people telling you to shut up

Extreme right wing nutters always tout "will of the free market" until it turns out no corporation wants their crappy views tainting their brand. 



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Soundwave said:
collint0101 said:

Ok, and? Why does this guy deserve a platform? He has a right to speak but he doesn't have a right to a megaphone. Why don't conservatives get this? You're not entitled to someone else's site or service. Just as I can kick someone out of my house for saying something I don't like you can get kicked off a website for the same reason. The first amendment protects you from the government and violence not people telling you to shut up

Extreme right wing nutters always tout "will of the free market" until it turns out no corporation wants their crappy views tainting their brand. 

Exactly. Go and read or listen to sargon's outburst and remember that this is the guy people are defending. Conservatism has turned into nothing but internet trolls and edge lords trying to be as offensive and controversial as possible then crying whenever someone calls them out for it 



pokoko said:
So, I mean, what is this? I don't know this Harris person or this Peterson person. There is nothing in the OP that tells me anything about the accounts that were closed and if they were in violation of any policies. There is no substance here at all.

All I can do is shrug.

Harris and Peterson are both very smart individuals, especially when it comes to how people think and why. Harris is clearly left but not what some would call 'radical' left, and Peterson is fairly center but sides with the right based on the lefts political viewpoint at the moment. Ruben used to be part of TYT and now has his own show and is also fairly center, yet sides with the right because he thinks the left has gone way to far considering he's got a lot of hate for being gay and not a firm lefty anymore.

The way I understand it, is that Sargon was banned from Patreon for saying something on YouTube quite a while ago. I can't remember if it was months or years, but not recent. Patreon or someone else found it and used it against him. The problem is that while it could fall under hate speech (I think it was) from Patreons rules and guidelines, which is up to them, what was said has nothing to do with Patreon because it was on another platform that isn't tied to those rules and guidelines. Patreon is basically acting as Team America world police, and we know how people tend to feel about that. 

Sargon is upset because he found out from his viewers that he was kicked off Patreon, and he had to contact Patreon to find out officially. Patreon in short, basically told him their rules and guidelines aren't well defined and so this incident can fall into that. Sargon and many other Patreon members are pissed off yet worried that without well defined guidelines, anyone could be banned at anytime, which is not a stable business model.

Patreon doesn't seem to care and doesn't really want to do much about it, and considering the constant insta-bans that have been happening more and more recently, tied to social media or internet based services, certain individuals want to get together to create their own version of Patreon. You can bet if this happens, that will just be the first step towards creating their own knockoffs of other platforms they use, which tend to be somewhat risky and could get worse.



Patreon might lose a few bucks out of this, but it'll probably end up being a drop in the ocean compared to the number of people using the site to provide or access adult material.



Chris Hu said:
Mr Puggsly said:

What's your point though?

I mean I can think of a lot of rich people who technically don't need to make another dollar. Like pretty much anybody who has been a successful musician, athlete, or actor for years.

If he's willing to close his account to make a point, good for him. Personally I support a few people on Patreon and I'm going to use alternatives when available.

My point is right there in plain English.  Harris never needed a additional revenue stream in his entire life so there was never a reason for him to start a patreon account.  Patreon accounts are meant for people that don't make enough money through their regular jobs or for people that don't make enough money from what they do for a living not for people that already have more then enough money.

No, Patreon is for people to monetize the content they create.

Or for some of us, to support people who create content the media tries to silence.



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Megiddo said:
o_O.Q said:

can you define free market for me? and in that definition explain how the point is to suppress opposition

Laissez-faire capitalism is based around the idea of no government intervention whatsoever in private business. The government is "hands off" and leaves private business to do what it wants.

The point of a corporation is to make money. If there is something that is impeding a corporation from making money then they will do what they can to remove the impediment.

Let's use an example. Dollar General and Family Dollar are both entities that serve pretty much the same purpose. They are competitors vying for the same consumers and are each impeding the other from making more money. What usually happens in a free market?  Why, they merge! And in Family Dollar's case, it was very much an unwanted merger. That doesn't matter though, because Dollar General had the ability to threaten a hostile takeover by buying up Family Dollar's stock. That resulted in the merger.

Sources:

https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2014/0910/Dollar-General-attempts-hostile-takeover-of-Family-Dollar.-What-s-a-hostile-takeover

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/03/business/dealbook/dollar-tree-and-family-dollar-will-sell-330-stores-to-seal-merger-deal.html

That is the free market. That is suppressing the opposition by buying them out and removing competition to get close to monopolizing the market and to have full control

 

So now, I've done a good deal of teaching. I don't mind the lesson, but it's boring when there's no actual discussion going on. Feel free to bring up your own thoughts if you can manage to sort them out clearly.

"Laissez-faire capitalism is based around the idea of no government intervention whatsoever in private business."

which is not a thing in america

 

"The point of a corporation is to make money."

and to do so they need to provide some type of value to the consumer, which is why ou have video games, the internet, a computer, a forum to spread your ideas on etc etc etc

its funny how that bit always gets left out

 

"Let's use an example."

lets get this straight, you aren't explaining anything to me, i'm absolutely certain that i understand this better than you do

 

"That is the free market."

what is your alternative, this is the second time i'm asking

 

"That is suppressing the opposition by buying them out and removing competition to get close to monopolizing the market and to have full control"

and others if they come up with a better way of doing things can still challenge

this is why massive stores like jc penny are starting to fail because amazon came up with something better

this is what you people do not get, markets are always in flux