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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Official Pro Wrestling Thread



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pokoko said:
amp316 said:

Yeah.  It was pretty good.  I also liked the Rusev and Jack Swagger bit.

And what can I say about Cena?  Isn't it great that he's going to break Ric Flair's record for world titles soon?

I don't know how Cole said Cena is "greatest of all time" with a straight face.  I think that's why it won't bother me much when Cena ends up with 20 title wins.  It's like home-run records during the steroids era, no one takes it seriously.  No one over 15 thinks Cena is the greatest of all time.  Ten years from now, it's not an argument anyone is going to make.  Cena will be remembered as the guy who stayed at the top because kids buy a lot of wrestling merchandise.  Kind of a sad commentary on wrestling, to be honest.

You know what really pisses me off?  When people compare him to Hulk Hogan.  Sure the whole say your prayers and take your vitamins thing was crap, but Hogan was much more bearable in a "super face" gimmick.



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amp316 said:
pokoko said:

I don't know how Cole said Cena is "greatest of all time" with a straight face.  I think that's why it won't bother me much when Cena ends up with 20 title wins.  It's like home-run records during the steroids era, no one takes it seriously.  No one over 15 thinks Cena is the greatest of all time.  Ten years from now, it's not an argument anyone is going to make.  Cena will be remembered as the guy who stayed at the top because kids buy a lot of wrestling merchandise.  Kind of a sad commentary on wrestling, to be honest.

You know what really pisses me off?  When people compare him to Hulk Hogan.  Sure the whole say your prayers and take your vitamins thing was crap, but Hogan was much more bearable in a "super face" gimmick.

I think it's clear that Vince was trying to recreate Hulk Hogan with Cena and that it didn't even come close to working out the same way.  Not only is it a different era but Hogan had some important intangibles that Cena lacks.  Hogan had a fire and intensity that resonated with people, while Cena just seems arrogant and holier-than-thou.  It's just not the same vibe at all and it ended up alienating many people.  Hogan rallied the crowd, Cena just talks about how awesome he is.

Hogan was also infinitely better at getting the crowd behind him during the typical face come-back.  Cena just doesn't have that spark.

In other news, Emma was fired for shoplifting an iPad case?  Is that even true?  And then brought back hours later?  That's beyond dumb.



amp316 said:
pokoko said:
amp316 said:

Yeah.  It was pretty good.  I also liked the Rusev and Jack Swagger bit.

And what can I say about Cena?  Isn't it great that he's going to break Ric Flair's record for world titles soon?

I don't know how Cole said Cena is "greatest of all time" with a straight face.  I think that's why it won't bother me much when Cena ends up with 20 title wins.  It's like home-run records during the steroids era, no one takes it seriously.  No one over 15 thinks Cena is the greatest of all time.  Ten years from now, it's not an argument anyone is going to make.  Cena will be remembered as the guy who stayed at the top because kids buy a lot of wrestling merchandise.  Kind of a sad commentary on wrestling, to be honest.

You know what really pisses me off?  When people compare him to Hulk Hogan.  Sure the whole say your prayers and take your vitamins thing was crap, but Hogan was much more bearable in a "super face" gimmick.


I liked Hogan as a kid because Hogan was fucking insane!  I remember some promo where some guy was talking and Hogan came in from the fucking ceiling, upside down and was still talking shit like it was an normal thing to do a promo upside down!!  And during a match, it was like he was too retarded to feel pain.  You'd punch him and he'd be like, "What was that?  Normal physics don't apply to me.  I'm crazy now!"  To this day, I believe that if I'm ever getting my ass kicked in a fight, I'll finally say enough is enough and go Super Saiyan Gohan on somebody.

 



d21lewis said:


I liked Hogan as a kid because Hogan was fucking insane!  I remember some promo where some guy was talking and Hogan came in from the fucking ceiling, upside down and was still talking shit like it was an normal thing to do a promo upside down!!  And during a match, it was like he was too retarded to feel pain.  You'd punch him and he'd be like, "What was that?  Normal physics don't apply to me.  I'm crazy now!"  To this day, I believe that if I'm ever getting my ass kicked in a fight, I'll finally say enough is enough and go Super Saiyan Gohan on somebody.

 

No-selling at some point in a match is a very Japanese thing and Hogan was trained by a Japanese wrestler.  He also spent a lot of time over there.  He became big in Japan before he became big in the west.  The funny thing is, he was a much better wrestler in Japan, which is why a lot of people believe he was told to dumb down his ring work--the same thing a lot of people believe about Cena.

Seriously, the Japanese eat up the no-sell.  The much talked about Shibata vs. Ishii match from last year's G1 was filled with no-sells as they pretty much abandoned wrestling to stiff the hell out of each other.   http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x12xkql_katsuyori-shibata-vs-tomohiro-ishii-njpw-g1-climax-23-08-04-13_sport

What pisses me off about Cena is that he'll cut an intense promo and you'll think he's getting serious then his next ten promos will be filled with crappy jokes and grade-school insults.  I remember when the Rock got in Cena's face and it felt really intense, then Cena, for some reason I cannot understand, started smiling like a goof-ball, which completely DESTROYED the atmosphere.  I honestly felt like I'd been cheated.



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pokoko said:

From New Japan's Dominion show:

Time Splitters (Alex Shelley & KUSHIDA) vs. Young Bucks.  Awesome match, one of the best tag team matches I've seen in awhile.  The timing of both teams was fantastic.  Everyone was hitting big spots left and right.  I wish the WWE had something half as entertaining as this.  KUSHIDA is going to be Jr. HWC one day, I really look forward to him against Ibushi.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1zzaxl_time-splitters-alex-shelley-kushida-vs-the-young-bucks-njpw-dominion-6-21-2014_sport

 

Kota Ibushi vs. Ricochet.  Two of the most exciting guys wrestling right now.  Ricochet is coming off an excellent match against KUSHIDA at the Super Juniors tourny (watch it) where he won the right to face Ibushi for the Jr. Heavyweight Title.  He's amazing.  Word is that the WWE passed on him.  Kota Ibushi is going to be a major star in Japan.

Loved how over Ricochet was with the crowd.  Good stuff.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1zyt9o_kota-ibushi-vs-ricochet-njpw-dominion-6-21-2014_sport


 


Thank you for posting these links. Every time I question myself on why I still watch pro wrestling and decide it's time to quit for good, stuff like this reminds me of why I'm a fan.



burninmylight said:


Thank you for posting these links. Every time I question myself on why I still watch pro wrestling and decide it's time to quit for good, stuff like this reminds me of why I'm a fan.

Hey, thank you for making me feel appreciated.  I didn't know if anyone cared or not.  

New Japan is really good right now and filled with talent, both Japanese and western.  They don't lose focus on the wrestling and the mid-card feels as intense as the main event.  Sometimes in the US, the wrestling feels like an after-thought to the drama.

I'm kind of excited because the G1 Climax tourament is coming up this month and last year's was incredible.  The last nine winners have all been different so anyone can win it.  It's round-robin, so even the top guys will get beat at least a couple of times.  That kind of suspense and parity, where no one is unbeatable, is something the WWE lacks badly.



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pokoko said:

Hey, thank you for making me feel appreciated.  I didn't know if anyone cared or not.  

New Japan is really good right now and filled with talent, both Japanese and western.  They don't lose focus on the wrestling and the mid-card feels as intense as the main event.  Sometimes in the US, the wrestling feels like an after-thought to the drama.

I'm kind of excited because the G1 Climax tourament is coming up this month and last year's was incredible.  The last nine winners have all been different so anyone can win it.  It's round-robin, so even the top guys will get beat at least a couple of times.  That kind of suspense and parity, where no one is unbeatable, is something the WWE lacks badly.


I gave up on WWE about a decade ago for the reasons in bold. Other than a few snippets of RAW every once in a while, I haven't looked back, and it has done very little to make me miss it. I could go for a show that's almost completely devoid of drama and backstage antics and is all about what happens in the ring.

I've been watching TNA for about a decade too, but the past five years have been only half-heartedly. It had it's problems before, but Hogan came in and ruined everything. Now with AJ gone, a shell of an X-Division and tag team landscape, and only two talented women in circulation, I'm hanging on by a thread named Samoa Joe (and watching out of respect for Eric Young's title run; he deserved it). Now that it's 2014 and everything is online, I might be ready to swear off US wrestling for good and go all Japan and Mexico.

EDIT: I forgot about ROH, I might give that a try.

Also, in this match at about 9:15, what the hell was that blond guy thinking? He's lucky the husky guy he just powerbombed into the rope has no freakin'  neck to break! I always cringe on powerbombs into the turnbuckle because it is too easy for someone to get hurt.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1zzr7y_bullet-club-aj-styles-yujiro-takahashi-vs-chaos-kazuchika-okada-tomohiro-ishii_sport



pokoko said:

 

I think it's clear that Vince was trying to recreate Hulk Hogan with Cena and that it didn't even come close to working out the same way.  Not only is it a different era but Hogan had some important intangibles that Cena lacks.  Hogan had a fire and intensity that resonated with people, while Cena just seems arrogant and holier-than-thou.  It's just not the same vibe at all and it ended up alienating many people.  Hogan rallied the crowd, Cena just talks about how awesome he is.

Hogan was also infinitely better at getting the crowd behind him during the typical face come-back.  Cena just doesn't have that spark.

In other news, Emma was fired for shoplifting an iPad case?  Is that even true?  And then brought back hours later?  That's beyond dumb.

One thing people forget with Hogan, is that no matter who you were, he always made you seem like a threat.  There was always that question "Will this be the guy who beats Hogan?" and Hogan would sell in the match until the "Hulkamaniacs" gave Hogan the energy he needed to win.  Worked for about as long as it could though :/