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Forums - Gaming Discussion - About classic Tomb Raider games

Thinking on it now, the most thing that has stuck in my memory with Tomb Raider was looking the butler in the freezer but I can see people in this thread who never fully understood the games and there grid nature and the rules of the game. The controls are by all means really frustrating but they are perfect for the system that is in place, it really is incredibly intelligent level design. Remember the devs didn't just set up parkour on the fly, no, they crafted a system which is allowed them to create complex levels and after you make a few jumps of each varying distance it's pretty obvious, you can actually see the sqaures in the first game really easily, pretty sure the mansion gym course teaches you everything really concisely. I do understand that there are gamers who never figured it out but to complete ignore it and call the game trash because you never understood the basics of the game is BS.

They didn't sell tens of millions of copies with the old system cause they were one of the first 3d platformers, no they sold because underneath the frustration is a really solid puzzle platforming system wheter all those millions noticed it or not, it does not matter, it is legitimately fun to work your way through these games, rip out all the combat and story and that core is fun. Crash Bandicoot is frustrating, it's still fun. Not everything has to be easy, the whole point of the games if to figure out the puzzling level design and finally make it through something you spent much time attempting trial and error.

Going back to basics like this with no hints would be welcome. Something severely lacking from current games is the idea that getting stuck is a bad thing, Getting pretty sick of the auto parkour with no need for inputs. Stellar Blade brings back agency in parkour but unfortunately it's mostly confined to finding the collectible cans.

Last edited by LegitHyperbole - on 03 February 2025

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LegitHyperbole said:

Thinking on it now, the most thing that has stuck in my memory with Tomb Raider was looking the butler in the freezer but I can see people in this thread who never fully understood the games and there grid nature and the rules of the game. The controls are by all means really frustrating but they are perfect for the system that is in place, it really is incredibly intelligent level design. Remember the devs didn't just set up parlour on the fly, no, they crafted a system which is so bloody obvious after you make a few jumps of each varying distance, pretty sure the mansion gym course teaches you everything really concisely. I do understand that there are gamers who never figured it out but to complete ignore it and call the game trash because you never understood the basics of the game is BS.

They didn't sell tens of millions of copies with the old system cause they were the first 3d platformer, no they sold because underneath the frustration is a really solid gained system wheter all those millions noticed it or not, it does not matter, it is legitimately fun to work your way through these games, rip out all the combat and story and that core is fun. Crash Bandicoot is frustrating, it's still fun. Not everything has to be easy, the whole point of the games if to figure out the puzzling level design and finally make it through something you spent much time attempting trial and error.

Going back to basics like this with no hints would be welcome. Something severely lacking from current games is the idea that getting stuck is a bad thing, Getting pretty sick of the auto parlour with no need for inputs. Stellar Blade brings back to agency but unfortunately it's mostly confined to finding the collectible cans.

Well, now you've brought up Crash Bandicoot. I never liked that either. Another terribly bad series. I appreciate your passion for those games, good for you. Keep it that way. However, I think I could waste my time a lot better. I'm gonna shelf Tomb Raider for now and play something else instead. Still, I will get back to it one day, when I should be very bored and desperate. I have it, so I will finish it, even if it might take a few years.



The first game of the original trilogy was kind of decent and even kind of good when it came out compared to the other games that came out around the same time, despite the awful controls since it was somewhat easy. But two and three got a lot worse since they kept the same awful controls and upped the difficulty of those games.



As many already said, TR in its core is grid based exploration puzzle-platformer, like original Prince of Persia, so original controls make sense, and there was big backlash in TR community when CD changed them with Legend (personally I'm fine with both, since the core gameplay was preserved, unlike Reboot which has nothing to do with actual TR, except for the name).

There is a reason why, once upon a time, before YT, when Game Trailers was THE place to go to for gaming video media, they made all the new interns play original Tomb Raider (among other games).



It was always about the puzzles, not easy traversal. Each room or space is basically a puzzle to solve and the goal is to find a way forward, using what you know and being perceptive. The controls could get clunky or even frustrating at times, but it's okay if you just take things slow and appreciate the atmosphere and wonder of discovery.
The shooting is easy as pie, because Lara has auto-targeting. It's just about how to best clear the enemies without taking too much damage. Another puzzle, basically.
I can understand how the games may not be for everyone in the modern age. I used to enjoy the feeling of being deep in some place no-one had been for ages, feeling isolated but curious to see what was around the next corner.



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Dante9 said:

It was always about the puzzles, not easy traversal. Each room or space is basically a puzzle to solve and the goal is to find a way forward, using what you know and being perceptive. The controls could get clunky or even frustrating at times, but it's okay if you just take things slow and appreciate the atmosphere and wonder of discovery.
The shooting is easy as pie, because Lara has auto-targeting. It's just about how to best clear the enemies without taking too much damage. Another puzzle, basically.
I can understand how the games may not be for everyone in the modern age. I used to enjoy the feeling of being deep in some place no-one had been for ages, feeling isolated but curious to see what was around the next corner.

Yeah that isolation was a big draw and provided a great sense of immersion. The game understood you don't need to have '30 seconds of fun' every minute to stay engaged. There was Duke Nukem 3D for that (Came out 6 months before TR1) and Doom of course.

TR let you wander around by yourself, interrupted by some bats or sometimes a bear. You could really imagine yourself there, exploring, finding a way forward. Getting stuck on a room, try something else, different room for a while and come back to it later. It all led to a great sense of achievement to get each collectible. Spotting them was only the beginning of the puzzle, then working backwards, figure out a path to get there.

The closest to the feeling of playing TR nowadays was playing Subside on PSVR2 in the underwater cave exploration part. No enemies, just you against the environment trying to find keys/coins/locked boxes/collectibles while navigating underwater caverns with the time you can hold your breath as limiting factor.

TR1 and TR2 did the exploration/discovery part really well, 3 was still good, then Angel of Darkness killed the series. That's when they first strayed off the formula. Some of the later ones were still good, Anniversary the best, then the reboot changed it all. Completely different genre.



SanAndreasX said:
JackHandy said:

It's the same with Resident Evil 1-3. They were masterpieces that garnered critical acclaim, everyone gushed over, and no one complained about... until suddenly, ten or twenty years later, they're the worst games of all time because omg, I'm not able to control them etc.

I think games should be judged against their own times, not current times.

I actually didn't, and still don't, have any problems with classic Resident Evil. Resident Evil also didn't have platform jumping or any of the other issues that I didn't like about Tomb Raider. Resident Evil was my favorite series on PlayStation other than Final Fantasy, and I still love the games now. And I also judged Tomb Raider against the time it came out. Came away thoroughly unimpressed, especially against Super Mario 64 (which actually came out a month before the first TR) or Ocarina of Time. 

And even on the boobs issue, if I were wanting to ogle masses of pixels designed to simulate a female body in Playboy, Claire Redfield, Tifa, or the Tekken 3 ladies would have been my choice over Lara Croft, lol. 

My argument is this: if the controls were objectively as bad as everyone now claims, the reviews would have been brutal, and they wouldn't have sold. Neither happened. Reviews were stellar, and sales were great. So we can only conclude that it's revisionary critique, rather than an inherent fault of said games.  



Dante9 said:

It was always about the puzzles, not easy traversal. Each room or space is basically a puzzle to solve and the goal is to find a way forward, using what you know and being perceptive. The controls could get clunky or even frustrating at times, but it's okay if you just take things slow and appreciate the atmosphere and wonder of discovery.
The shooting is easy as pie, because Lara has auto-targeting. It's just about how to best clear the enemies without taking too much damage. Another puzzle, basically.
I can understand how the games may not be for everyone in the modern age. I used to enjoy the feeling of being deep in some place no-one had been for ages, feeling isolated but curious to see what was around the next corner.

The atmosphere, sense of isolation, wonder of discovery, and sheer immersion are really under-sold when it comes to the original trilogy. The second one in particular felt like a fucking horror game to me as a teenager.



JackHandy said:
SanAndreasX said:

I actually didn't, and still don't, have any problems with classic Resident Evil. Resident Evil also didn't have platform jumping or any of the other issues that I didn't like about Tomb Raider. Resident Evil was my favorite series on PlayStation other than Final Fantasy, and I still love the games now. And I also judged Tomb Raider against the time it came out. Came away thoroughly unimpressed, especially against Super Mario 64 (which actually came out a month before the first TR) or Ocarina of Time. 

And even on the boobs issue, if I were wanting to ogle masses of pixels designed to simulate a female body in Playboy, Claire Redfield, Tifa, or the Tekken 3 ladies would have been my choice over Lara Croft, lol. 

My argument is this: if the controls were objectively as bad as everyone now claims, the reviews would have been brutal, and they wouldn't have sold. Neither happened. Reviews were stellar, and sales were great. So we can only conclude that it's revisionary critique, rather than an inherent fault of said games.  

FF13 got great reviews. It sucks ass. God Hand got poor reviews, it's a great game and so did Armored Core series until reviewers sucked Froms Softs cock on everything then all a sudden AC6 is a masterpiece even tho it's not even the best in the series. Strider 2 now considered a great game was lambasted back then. I played TR back then and thought the controls were fucking ass.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

SanAndreasX said:
OdinHades said:

I can imagine it is hard to get into if you didn't play it when it first came out. We kinda just got along with the controls. Remember that there weren't analog sticks back then. On PC we played Tomb Raider solely with the keyboard, no mouse needed.

I grew up with the controls and I actually love them. Sure, it's clunky, but it enables a movement that is a lot more precise than in most modern games. It's kinda hard to describe. But for example the modern Tomb Raider games feel washy in comparison. I never know where Lara will stop or which ledge she will grab automatically or something. In the old titles she does exactly what I tell her. Not more and not less.

I don't know if you can get into the controls in this day and age. But once you do, the games are in my opinion some of the best ever made. Even the weaker entries like 3 and 5 are a hell lot of fun in my opinion. They simply don't make games like that anymore. It's just you and the game, no bullshit quest markers, hints all over the place or something.

So if I were you, I wouldn't try too hard. If it's not fun, that's ok and I can't promise you that you will get rewarded when you keep trying. Oh, I also wouldn't even try to play with modern controls. I imagine some of the harder jumps are kinda impossible if you can't line Lara up perfectly.

I did play it back in the day. I couldn't stand the controls then. Tomb Raider also came out after Super Mario 64 and its analog controls did. Since I played SM64 before Tomb Raider, that made it even worse, trying to deal with the grid/tank controls after Mario's relatively precise movement and jumping. I couldn't understand what people saw in those games back then except maybe T&A. 

Most gamers back then were playing on PlayStation only, they didn't know what they were missing. Classic TR is great, though.



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