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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Sony and Nintendo are in competition. But are they really?

JRPGfan said:
konnichiwa said:

GTA IV was very interesting on VGChartz because January-March was all about how GTA IV will sell a ton in April and boost X360/PS3 sales and hurt the Wii, A ton of discussions but reality was =>

March the month before GTAIV release 

NPD:

  • Wii - 721K
  • Xbox 360 - 262K
  • PlayStation 3 - 257K

April  the month with GTA IV

Neogaf was also in shock

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/official-april-2008-npd-thread-of-massive-disappointment-if-youre-not-nintendo.296026/

I did not know/remember this.... wow.

I'm kinda in the boat that expects the new GTA to boost sales, so this would be a shock for me if it turned out it didn't.
Surprised that apparently GTA IV didn't do much at launch for the consoles.

My current thinking is that GTAV boosts hardware a few million on PS5 side.... Hope that doesn't turn out wrong.

Well it only means we are not sure of anything, maybe PS5/Series get discounted for the launch window of GTAVI and you could be totally right.






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Conina said:
killer7 said:

But the PC never outsells consoles. 

Game content spend. This incues DLC, microtransactions, free games... not hardware. No single PC was supported 10 years+ sold 150 million+ graphic cards (equivalent to console generations) do not hold more than 3- 4 years max, mot times they get dated even earlier. Close to no physical PC games are sold in stores. Console versions of games sell much better... No person with a brain buys an overpriced desktop PC today. When a new console launches, watch 100s of people lining up just to get their system on launch day. When games like Mario, GTA... launch, watch 100s of people rushing in stores, clearing stock day 1, watch PS5 for example: That thing was supply castrained for a full 2 years!! Please show me a graphics card that was demanded like that! The only game where people lined up like crazy was World Of Warcraft and that was ~ 20 years ago but nothing compared to the Wii launch in my country where we had injured people because hysteria was so intense that people where breaking through the glasern shop wimdows. There was blood on the floor, we had an ambulance here... hysteria os much more intense on consoles. I work at a retailer and know what i am talking about. Every few weeks we got a few people interesting in high end PCs. Maybe you will say: "But they buy everything online!" But reality is (PC gamers hate to admid it) but they also like physical goods and get a bit jalous on console users cause we got games on UHD Blu Ray, play split screen, get true Dolby Atmos (Xbox Series X/S) or get games like Metroid, Zelda, Mario, Pokémon... wich they cannot play. Many things on PC are free, thats also included in your statistics. Online play for example. On consoles you get charged for it. Personally i would never even touch a PC and thanks gopdness i do not need one for work!!



killer7 said:

Game content spend. This incues DLC, microtransactions, free games... not hardware. No single PC was supported 10 years+ sold 150 million+ graphic cards (equivalent to console generations) do not hold more than 3- 4 years max, mot times they get dated even earlier. Close to no physical PC games are sold in stores. Console versions of games sell much better... No person with a brain buys an overpriced desktop PC today. When a new console launches, watch 100s of people lining up just to get their system on launch day. When games like Mario, GTA... launch, watch 100s of people rushing in stores, clearing stock day 1, watch PS5 for example: That thing was supply castrained for a full 2 years!! Please show me a graphics card that was demanded like that! The only game where people lined up like crazy was World Of Warcraft and that was ~ 20 years ago but nothing compared to the Wii launch in my country where we had injured people because hysteria was so intense that people where breaking through the glasern shop wimdows. There was blood on the floor, we had an ambulance here... hysteria os much more intense on consoles. I work at a retailer and know what i am talking about. Every few weeks we got a few people interesting in high end PCs. Maybe you will say: "But they buy everything online!" But reality is (PC gamers hate to admid it) but they also like physical goods and get a bit jalous on console users cause we got games on UHD Blu Ray, play split screen, get true Dolby Atmos (Xbox Series X/S) or get games like Metroid, Zelda, Mario, Pokémon... wich they cannot play. Many things on PC are free, thats also included in your statistics. Online play for example. On consoles you get charged for it. Personally i would never even touch a PC and thanks gopdness i do not need one for work!!

What are you talking about? This must be one of the worst copes I ever seen.

"Game content spend. This incues DLC, microtransactions, free games... not hardware. No single PC was supported 10 years+ sold 150 million+ graphic cards (equivalent to console generations) do not hold more than 3- 4 years max, mot times they get dated even earlier."

You said the PC never outsells consoles. How else will you measure it as in games? PCs itself sell clearly more than consoles. How much of them are used for gaming is harder to ascertain. Or is it? Steam has at all times between 20M and 35M players online. Online in that moment! Steam had 132 monthly active users in 2021. According to VGC only three console platforms even *sold* that much: PS2, DS and Switch. And I doubt any of them ever beat that number of monthly active users. Steam has nearly double the number in active users than PS5 has sold hardware. And there are other shops on PC, though admittedly not as big and add maybe 10%-20%. As these users all have to use hardware it is clear: yes even in hardware used for gaming PC sells more. So yes, PC is clearly selling more units and it doesn't matter how long they are used as these active users obviously use a PC, no matter how old or new it is.

"Close to no physical PC games are sold in stores."

Consoles also sell by now more digital than physical. The consoles are just a few years behind PC in this trend.

"Console versions of games sell much better..."

You say on data showing a game selling 68% of their copies on PC and overall data showing more money is spent on games on PC than on games on all consoles combined. So yeah, games xclusive to consoles are selling much better on consoles. Otherwise...

"No person with a brain buys an overpriced desktop PC today."

Well, given the data a lot more people buy an PC and use it for gaming than people buy a PS5.

"When games like Mario, GTA... launch, watch 100s of people rushing in stores, clearing stock day 1"

When a new game launches people like to show off the numbers of active players of that game on Steam on the first weekend - and for popular games this is in the hundreds of thousands. For example Baldur's Gate 3 had over 800K concurrent players just shortly after launch.

"Many things on PC are free, thats also included in your statistics."

The statistics you answer to are showing Phantom Liberty (not free) and the second chart counts in dollars not units, so free offerings add nothing here.

"Online play for example. On consoles you get charged for it. Personally i would never even touch a PC and thanks gopdness i do not need one for work!!"

Wait, you never would touch a PC because on console you have to pay extra for online? What are you even on about?

I play consoles, because I use Linux for many years now on my PC and will not easily go back to Windows. And even I play more and more on PC, as with Proton it get's easier to do so on Linux as well.

Last edited by Mnementh - 2 days ago

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killer7 said:
Dante9 said:

I don't think they are competitors nearly as much as one might think. If you draw a Venn diagram of people who are thinking of buying a Playstation and others who are thinking about the Switch, they don't really overlap very much, I think. Both companies have very specific propositions in terms of both hardware and software. Do you need portability or not? Do you want AAA story driven big budget productions that Sony is known for(or used to be until they lost their minds), or do you want your Mario, Zelda and such?
Of course there are some who want everything, and other whose taste in games change as they mature in age, that also happens.

What uneducated people, mostly the worker class thinks is: Nintendo is for Kiddies, if they mature they play Playstation. Its like saying Lady Gaga is the best musician in the world because the radio always plays her music. In fact its teenagers who search for the so called "cool thing", playing harmless popcorn entertainment for 13 year olds like Call Of Duty, Fifa or Fartnite... my 13 years old cousin plays COD. Most of them are in puberty trying to impress ladies by playing "the strong man". Reallity is different: When i was in my 20s i went on (student)parties. We also where learning together. Guess what console we played? Gamecube, Wii, (3)DS, Mario Kart. Today its Switch. If you go in the worker class Playstation is the way to go. When you are 14- 20 its what people play. But when you mature you are also fine with the Switch. Thats my personal experience and Nintendo's own researches totally reflect that. 43% of all users are 25- 35 years old. People can downvote or insult me but it does not change facts.

Well, I did not say anything like that, but clearly this hit a nerve with you. Calm down and listen to the birds chirping.



killer7 said:

Game content spend. This incues DLC, microtransactions, free games... not hardware.

So you want to talk hardware numbers? Over 200 million PCs are sold each year, only ~20 million PlayStations and ~20 million Nintendo consoles.

Of course, only a fraction of the over 200 million PCs per year is dedicated to gaming, but that share is growing over the years. F.e., the RTX3000-GPU-series launched at the same time as PS5 and Xbox Series X/S. In the same timeframe the PS5 hardware base grew to 70 million units, the share of RTX-3000 and RTX-4000 PC systems grew to 50% of the Steam Hardware base, so probably over 100 million gaming PCs.

No single PC was supported 10 years+ sold 150 million+ graphic cards (equivalent to console generations) do not hold more than 3- 4 years max, mot times they get dated even earlier.

Wrong again, gaming PCs can also hold as long as as a console cycle or even longer, especially if console settings are "good enough" for their users. Many still play games with GTX Maxwell or Ampere GPUs, Radeon RX 580 GPUs and similar old hardware. Most PC upgrades are because the PC-gamers want to upgrade instead of needing to upgrade.

Every PC with an DirectX12 GPU is still supported, DX12 launched 10 years ago. Even with a 15 year old DirectX11-PC you can still play the majority of PC games... so much for "support".

Close to no physical PC games are sold in stores.

So what?

Console versions of games sell much better...

Many are selling better on Switch or PlayStation, but many games also sell better on PC.

No person with a brain buys an overpriced desktop PC today.

So now you are openly trolling and insulting.

When a new console launches, watch 100s of people lining up just to get their system on launch day. When games like Mario, GTA... launch, watch 100s of people rushing in stores, clearing stock day 1, watch PS5 for example: That thing was supply castrained for a full 2 years!! Please show me a graphics card that was demanded like that!

GeForce RTX GPUs and Raden RX GPUs were supply constrained the same time frame. Both PS5 and PC-GPUs had scalper prices in 2020 and 2021.

Every few weeks we got a few people interesting in high end PCs. Maybe you will say: "But they buy everything online!" But reality is (PC gamers hate to admid it) but they also like physical goods and get a bit jalous on console users cause we got games on UHD Blu Ray, play split screen, get true Dolby Atmos (Xbox Series X/S)...

Complete denial of reality on your site and projecting.

And not that it matters much, but Windows 10 + 11 are Dolby Atmos compatible and support multiple game pads. There are also a lot of PC games with local multiplayer on Steam. Additional, online multiplayer access is free.

Last edited by Conina - 2 days ago

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killer7 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

They compete in the same sense two different games compete with each other, if your money is limited you have make choices

However I see them as complementary consoles as they (mostly) don't run the same group of games. Sony and Nintendo sales curve and evolution have very small correlation

In current market state PC is more of a competition to Sony than Nintendo

But the PC never outsells consoles. 

This is not even remotely true. Population of people who plays on PCs is overwhelmingly bigger than on consoles 



You don't need high powerfull PC's anymore, most PC users just like console users tend to play years old games...






konnichiwa said:

You don't need high powerfull PC's anymore, most PC users just like console users tend to play years old games...

And you can play more old games on PC than on console. Even without support of the company with a port to modern platforms or remaster, you can buy an old game on Steam and on GOG and play it either directly if that still works or use an emulator like DosBox. So it is easier.

Also many modern games aren't that power hungry, many indies have more tame usage of resources. And also of these are much more available. Apparently >18K games released on Steam in 2024. Most of them will be indies.

So yeah, you can play on PC with less resources, less power, and also have a much higher number of offerings available.



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my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

I hear so many "arguments" from peole:
PCs sell better, PC games sell better, PCs are longer supported...
Reality is: IF a PC gets supported longer you have to UPGRADE it. You spend more on that than on a console. So no! A PC does not get supported longer than a console! More PCs are sold,? Yes, when we take every PC into account for gaming, working, research, university, hospitals... yes of course. But for gaming? How many PCs can play current games? Less than consoles. A friend of mine modded his Xbox Series X, has an illigal mod chip inside and plays every game from steam on his Xbox. PCs get replaced through tablets and smartphones (not in gaming but work). I work in a retailer store and in sales promotion and i never use a PC! How many problems do PCs have? How often do they crash? "Error" is a PCs favourite word😉. I have an 8k TV at home that costes 7000€. This gives me a better quality than any PC monitor. If you watch movies with your family, you prefere a small PC monitor or a big 8k TV? If you play a game with Dolby Atmos, take a Dolby Set for PC or a full power amplifier that costs 5000€+ alone, and there are no boxes included. Take the same monwy and you got a full set. PCs are for working. But for Entertainment there is 8K TV, High End Home Cinema, Consoles and 0% PC! Thats the way i use it!



killer7 said:

I hear so many "arguments" from peole:
PCs sell better, PC games sell better, PCs are longer supported...

Reality is: IF a PC gets supported longer you have to UPGRADE it.

No, you don't HAVE to, see above. A PC with GTX 1070 (now 8.5 years old, so longer than a console cycle) can handle ANY PC game except Indiana Jones and the Great Circle), even Alan Wake 2, Cyberpunk 2077 and other heavyweights. Of course with reduced settings, but it is still supported. The same of course is true for PC systems with GTX 1080 (8.5 years old), GTX 1080 Ti (8 years old), Radeon RX Vega 56/64 (7.5 years old). Even a GTX 980 Ti (9.5 years old) still can run almost any PC game, if it doesn't need more than 6 GB VRAM.

And even a much slower Steam Deck can handle Cyberpunk 2077 and most other newer games.

You spend more on that than on a console. So no!

Yes, the price-performance-ratio of consoles is unsually better, but not leagues ahead. And the last two years, the Steam Deck had a better price-performance-ratio than a Nintendo Switch.

A PC does not get supported longer than a console!

Yes it does, see above.

More PCs are sold,? Yes, when we take every PC into account for gaming, working, research, university, hospitals... yes of course. But for gaming? How many PCs can play current games? Less than consoles.

No.

A friend of mine modded his Xbox Series X, has an illigal mod chip inside and plays every game from steam on his Xbox.

Modding and emulation as a pro argument for consoles against PC? Are you alright?
Believe me, you don't wan't to start comparisons in this direction.

Last edited by Conina - 2 days ago