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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5 Pro revealed. November 7th 2024. $699

PotentHerbs said:
archbrix said:

Why would you assume it's based around wanting last gen console owners getting the shaft? Believe it or not, some people would just like to see games on their new $500 console that can't be done on the old hardware. If games can scale, then great, but wanting to see true next-gen games on your true next-gen console shouldn't be met with opposition.

I honestly felt this way about cross gen games right when the PS5 launched. 

But the more I think about it, and with how long game development has gotten, those true next gen leaps won't be happening in Year 3 or 4, yet alone in Year 1 or 2. As an example, I loved R&C: Rift Apart, and while it gave us a taste of what next gen can do, I feel like Insomniac could still take it to another level. Even last generation, some of the games I feel had that leap from the previous hardware, such as GoW, RDR2, TLOU2, didn't come until 2018 at the earliest. 

Hm, I'd say PS4 had some really great gen-jump showcase games in first 2 years, like Killzone: Shadowfall, Infamous Second Son, Order 1886 and Witcher 3.



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PotentHerbs said:
archbrix said:

Why would you assume it's based around wanting last gen console owners getting the shaft? Believe it or not, some people would just like to see games on their new $500 console that can't be done on the old hardware. If games can scale, then great, but wanting to see true next-gen games on your true next-gen console shouldn't be met with opposition.

I honestly felt this way about cross gen games right when the PS5 launched. 

But the more I think about it, and with how long game development has gotten, those true next gen leaps won't be happening in Year 3 or 4, yet alone in Year 1 or 2. As an example, I loved R&C: Rift Apart, and while it gave us a taste of what next gen can do, I feel like Insomniac could still take it to another level. Even last generation, some of the games I feel had that leap from the previous hardware, such as GoW, RDR2, TLOU2, didn't come until 2018 at the earliest. 

Games will always get better on the hardware with time, but next-gen console owners are not wrong to expect exclusives that set the new hardware apart.  A certain amount of cross-gen is to be expected, what with the time/budget issues as you mentioned, especially today.  But there is a reason there are countless videos/articles/opinions out there that this gen has been, by far,  the slowest to get started regarding delivering an experience that couldn't be done well on the older console.

Ratchet is a great example, actually.  I'm sure Insomniac could do even better with a sequel, but the first game was a next-gen exclusive that took advantage of the PS5 hardware and delivered something that could be truly appreciated on a new, more powerful system.  Perhaps @Curl worded it a bit poorly by saying he was "annoyed", but I get his point.  It's not about trying to keep games away from last-gen gamers at all; it's about wanting developers to take advantage of the new hardware so that we can have the next level we deserve on our new console.  It's perfectly natural to want your PS5 to feel like a PS5, not a PS4 Pro 2.



SvennoJ said:

Online was indeed free, but also crap and offline for months after PSN got completely hacked. FTP games are still free to play online, but yes it sucks Sony followed and made paying for online mandatory. However PS3 was also rife with online passes, so it wasn't entirely free to play online. Second hand games you had to buy the online pass separately. (Or to play your disc online on a different account)

Europe models were not full BC, and to reduce price full BC capability was removed. Plus BC was a separate mode without any boost capability like the PS5 now has. I lost my FF12 saves due to a corrupted virtual memory card (I pressed the off button while it was still saving to virtual memory card I guess)
Btw thanks to the PS4 Pro, a lot of PS4 games make more use of PS5' extra power.

My PS3 controllers did break within 2 years. My 2 launch model PS3s did as well after 3 years.

But it did have the cheapest and best blu-ray player for a long time. Early dedicated blu-ray players at the time of PS3 release were slow, cost $2,000 and became obsolete because they couldn't get patched. PS3 did add 3D blu-ray support later through some magic.

PS3 was great, but expensive and had plenty issues. Modern consoles may suck, but try installing a game on PS3 again that had many patches. It takes days to get GT5 fully working again on a PS3 from original disc install... Patching, installing, OS in general, PS3 feels horribly slow nowadays. It's still a great blu-ray player though :)

Let's not glorify gen 7. I had 2x YloD, went through 7 ps3 controllers, 2x RRoD, 360 charge packs failed after 3 years, HDD failure in PS3 (months to redownload my digital games as I was still on a 60GB monthly limit connection), Disc drive failure in the Wii, Charge packs for Wii remotes all failed, Balance board connection failure. Gen 7 has been the worst for durability.

In addition to @Cerebralbore101 I will add also few things. Online pass was barely a thing, it was there for year at max, other than that you could play everything everywhere 10th hand if you want. Back compat, as I already told, you forget PS1 back compt, it was 100% there. PS1 is old now, but back then it was like playing PS3 games natively now at 100%, so it's a good thing. Also the backcompat with PS1 and PS2 was boosted, you could play all the games with upscaled settings in 1080p, of course it wasn't native 1080p but it was still better image quality than the original ones. Also I've installed many and many games on my PS3 and the only slow thing is in the very few exceptions when the game has many many big patches and you have to wait for hour or two until they are ready, but nowadays this applies for all the games and even last gen too. Other than the patches, PS3 games installed for no more than 5 to 10 minutes which is okay. Also you pointed out having problems with your HDD, because of that you may have had the problems of slower than normal installations. But like @Cerebralbore101 said, just because you hadn't had a luck with your time for 7th gen does not mean it wasn't good or durable. Gen 7 was the worst for durability only for the first 2 years of it's models of consoles, after that, those machines are one of the biggest tanks I've seen. On reddit, ebay and youtube, when I was doing the research of broken systems, there were more cases of broken PS4s and XB1s than later 360 and PS3 models, (excluding the latest cheap toys E model and Super slim, those two were a joke).



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coolbeans said:

Funny little video.

This is so basic yet so funny.

Coming to you for only $7,000... before scalpers... 

LOL. Made me bust a gut.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 12 September 2024

archbrix said:
Zippy6 said:

But why? Lol. You have a new system running the games at 4k60/1440p60 or whatever while the old one is running at 720p30. Why is it annoying that people with the previous system can still play the games?

I don't understand why Sony preventing people on PS4 from playing God of War Ragnarok, Miles Morales, Sackboy, Horizon Forbidden West for no good reason would be a good thing.

I don't see how abandoning the people who bought your previous platform ASAP is a positive. Cross-gen means you can stick with the platform you already have if you're not interested in the performance and features of the new console instead of being forced to. "Buy our new machine right now, or here's the middle finger." If the games can run, keep bringing them.

Why would you assume it's based around wanting last gen console owners getting the shaft?  Believe it or not, some people would just like to see games on their new $500 console that can't be done on the old hardware.  If games can scale, then great, but wanting to see true next-gen games on your true next-gen console shouldn't be met with opposition.

People are going to have to accept that "games that can't be done" on the previous system (with worse graphics), is a silly expectation in this era. How many Nintendo games for the next console do you really think wouldn't be achievable on the Switch, just with worse graphics? Most of Nintendo's games on Switch mechanically could be done on hardware from 15 years ago, just with more basic visuals.

There is no "true next-gen games." Console gamers are going to have to get with the times. It's not 2006 anymore. PC gamers don't have these crazy expectations when they upgrade.

Last edited by Zippy6 - on 12 September 2024

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Zippy6 said:
archbrix said:

Why would you assume it's based around wanting last gen console owners getting the shaft?  Believe it or not, some people would just like to see games on their new $500 console that can't be done on the old hardware.  If games can scale, then great, but wanting to see true next-gen games on your true next-gen console shouldn't be met with opposition.

People are going to have to accept that "games that can't be done" on the previous system (with worse graphics), is a silly expectation in this era. How many Nintendo games for the next console do you really think wouldn't be achievable on the Switch, just with worse graphics? Most of Nintendo's games on Switch mechanically could be done on hardware from 15 years ago, just with more basic visuals.

There is no "true next-gen games."

Why buy a new system at all then?  It's not "silly" to expect new experiences with a new generation of consoles.  Ragnarok runs just fine on the PS4; something like Rift Apart wouldn't, without compromising the experience significantly.  Black Myth running like crap at a blurry resolution on PS4 should not be a priority for Game Science compared to giving PS5/PC owners the vision they intended.  There is a point when it's time to move on.  You can use whatever semantics you'd like but at the end of the day, games like Ratchet and Wukong, to me, are "true next-gen games."  And it's getting much better for PS5 (and Series X), but we are also half way through the generation already.

You're essentially expecting people to accept their new console as a Pro model rather than a new generation with whole new experiences.  Cross-gen is expected to a point early on, but people shouldn't feel falsely entitled somehow just because they want their new games on their new console to reflect its new tech.



HoloDust said:

Hm, I'd say PS4 had some really great gen-jump showcase games in first 2 years, like Killzone: Shadowfall, Infamous Second Son, Order 1886 and Witcher 3.

The same could be said about the PS5 though.



archbrix said:
Zippy6 said:

People are going to have to accept that "games that can't be done" on the previous system (with worse graphics), is a silly expectation in this era. How many Nintendo games for the next console do you really think wouldn't be achievable on the Switch, just with worse graphics? Most of Nintendo's games on Switch mechanically could be done on hardware from 15 years ago, just with more basic visuals.

There is no "true next-gen games."

Why buy a new system at all then?  It's not "silly" to expect new experiences with a new generation of consoles.  Ragnarok runs just fine on the PS4; something like Rift Apart wouldn't, without compromising the experience significantly.  Black Myth running like crap at a blurry resolution on PS4 should not be a priority for Game Science compared to giving PS5/PC owners the vision they intended.  There is a point when it's time to move on.  You can use whatever semantics you'd like but at the end of the day, games like Ratchet and Wukong, to me, are "true next-gen games."  And it's getting much better for PS5 (and Series X), but we are also half way through the generation already.

You're essentially expecting people to accept their new console as a Pro model rather than a new generation with whole new experiences.  Cross-gen is expected to a point early on, but people shouldn't feel falsely entitled somehow just because they want their new games on their new console to reflect its new tech.

If we were getting PS6 next year and moving ahead, then sure, cross gen games for a year or two would be more accepted.

Extending generations and adding a mid gen console to help with that, is all the more reason to move on to next gen, not milk both gens.



The PS5 PRo is a missed opportunity.

The Launch PS3 was really expensive too. BUT, it could play PS1 & PS2 games next to PS3 games. It replaced all of the earlier systems.

Imagine the PS5 PRO was launched being able to play EVERY generation of PS games. From PS1-PS5. It would need a discdrive standard though, but imagine all PS1-PS5 discs would simply work. Having such a system replacing 30 years of hardware would make me buy this system even at EUR 800.



archbrix said:

Games will always get better on the hardware with time, but next-gen console owners are not wrong to expect exclusives that set the new hardware apart. A certain amount of cross-gen is to be expected, what with the time/budget issues as you mentioned, especially today. But there is a reason there are countless videos/articles/opinions out there that this gen has been, by far,  the slowest to get started regarding delivering an experience that couldn't be done well on the older console.

Ratchet is a great example, actually. I'm sure Insomniac could do even better with a sequel, but the first game was a next-gen exclusive that took advantage of the PS5 hardware and delivered something that could be truly appreciated on a new, more powerful system. Perhaps @Curl worded it a bit poorly by saying he was "annoyed", but I get his point. It's not about trying to keep games away from last-gen gamers at all; it's about wanting developers to take advantage of the new hardware so that we can have the next level we deserve on our new console. It's perfectly natural to want your PS5 to feel like a PS5, not a PS4 Pro 2.

But next gen console owners have gotten next gen exclusives.

Even discounting better load times, 60 FPS option, and the Dualsense controller that make the PS5 version the definitive experience, stuff like Astro's Playroom, Returnal, R&C Rift Apart, SpiderMan 2, Helldivers 2, Rise of the Ronin, Astro Bot, and with upcoming titles like Death Stranding 2 and Wolverine, we've been getting software exclusive to the PS5 since its launch. That's not even including third party games like College Football 25 and Final Fantasy 16. Whether you believe they feel next gen is one thing, but if you think Ratchet and Clank delivered that feeling, than those next generation experiences have been stacking since 2021. They don't disappear when a new game comes out lol. 

Also, the majority of PS4 owners will be upgrading from the base PS4 to a PS5. The developers are eventually going to tap into the potential of current console hardware. But we aren't going to get those showstoppers until 2025/2026. Stopping development of last generation ports is not going to speed up that creative/ technological process.