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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Will the Switch 2 finally be powerful enough and popular enough to get Nintendo all the top games?

Pemalite on 04 September 2024
burninmylight said:
Pemalite said:

Rockstar couldn't even port GTA5 despite it being a 7th gen game ported to 8th gen and 9th gen consoles... The Switch is capable of running it and has a massive audience to sell games to.
...But for whatever reason, they never made it happen.

There is more to porting than just games or the size of a userbase... Company politics plays a big role as well.

Has the publisher or a developer come out and said that Rockstar couldn't get GTA5 to work on the Switch? You say that, then in the same post say that company politics play a big role as well.

As far as I know, Rockstar has never addressed why GTA5 isn't on Switch. We can't automatically blame that on the hardware, especially when the game could be ported up from older hardware.

Anything an Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 can do, the Switch can do better.
It's not a hardware limitation.

Chrkeller said:

Lol, nothing is in your favor.  You view is from random people on the internet.  My view is from hundreds of hours over dozens and dozens games.  Tough luck for you.  Sorry, I will always stick with my hands experience with playing switch, ps4, ps5, xbox, 3050, 4070 and 4090.  

1) You say that 120GB/s is a limitation.

And I provided evidence of:

1) AMD Handhelds with 100GB/s playing PS5/XSX games.
2) Advantages of nVidia hardware that gives nVidia GPU's an edge over AMD.

You literally have nothing in this argument. And provided nothing.

sc94597 said:

There is a point in which the profit-incentive dominates "company politics." If the projected sales (and profit) potential exceeds that point, then it becomes the dominant factor. Besides, Nintendo of 2024 is a very different company from say Nintendo of 2004, and certainly a different company than Nintendo of 1994 in terms of their willingness to work with third parties and share their platform with them. 

Profit-incentive falls into the "company politics". - Let's face it, even if GTA5 only sold 1 million copies on Switch, it would still turn a profit because the development costs for GTA5 were recouped over a decade ago.

It's why "remasters" and "remakes" are a thing.. They are profitable even if they only shift comparatively small amounts of units.

It likely cost Rockstar more money to port the GTA trilogy over to Switch and make it work than it would to port GTA5.

Chrkeller said:
Mar1217 said:

I mean for all instance and purposes, Wukong, a game that is seemingly bringing the PS5 to its knees and has problems being ported to the Series, is playable on the Steam Deck in "decent" fashion. So my take on this is relatively dependant mostly on the willfulness of the devs and publishers to achieve said games on the console, more so than the problem of "powerful hardware".

To be fair image quality for the ps5 is being viewed on a giant TV.  Image quality for the Deck is being viewed on a small screen.  Poor image quality will looks way better on a small screen than a large.  The switch 2 is in a unique position because it has mobile hardware but still needs to look good on the big screen.

Deck outputs to a TV just fine and games look just fine.

GPU is:
23% less docked.
69% less undocked.

CPU is:
About 55%.

HoloDust said:

I remember there were some tests (subjective of course) where in many titles, folks preferred 4K DLSS Quality over 4K Native. So yeah, wasting GPU/CPU resources on 4K native is silly with such a good upscaler tech. I think we'll see lot more of what Ubi did for Star Wars Outlaws, putting upscaler into official system recommendations for game.

Very situational dependent.

Someone sitting 1 foot away on a 65" OLED would probably prefer 4k native over someone sitting 6 meters away on a 75" LCD.

Pixel density per perceived inch is important... But also the panel type, OLED having really inky blacks and amazing contrasts can show aliasing artifacts more readily due to the differences in light/dark areas.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Chrkeller on 04 September 2024
Pemalite said:
burninmylight said:

Has the publisher or a developer come out and said that Rockstar couldn't get GTA5 to work on the Switch? You say that, then in the same post say that company politics play a big role as well.

As far as I know, Rockstar has never addressed why GTA5 isn't on Switch. We can't automatically blame that on the hardware, especially when the game could be ported up from older hardware.

Anything an Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 can do, the Switch can do better.
It's not a hardware limitation.

Chrkeller said:

Lol, nothing is in your favor.  You view is from random people on the internet.  My view is from hundreds of hours over dozens and dozens games.  Tough luck for you.  Sorry, I will always stick with my hands experience with playing switch, ps4, ps5, xbox, 3050, 4070 and 4090.  

1) You say that 120GB/s is a limitation.

And I provided evidence of:

1) AMD Handhelds with 100GB/s playing PS5/XSX games.
2) Advantages of nVidia hardware that gives nVidia GPU's an edge over AMD.

You literally have nothing in this argument. And provided nothing.

sc94597 said:

There is a point in which the profit-incentive dominates "company politics." If the projected sales (and profit) potential exceeds that point, then it becomes the dominant factor. Besides, Nintendo of 2024 is a very different company from say Nintendo of 2004, and certainly a different company than Nintendo of 1994 in terms of their willingness to work with third parties and share their platform with them. 

Profit-incentive falls into the "company politics". - Let's face it, even if GTA5 only sold 1 million copies on Switch, it would still turn a profit because the development costs for GTA5 were recouped over a decade ago.

It's why "remasters" and "remakes" are a thing.. They are profitable even if they only shift comparatively small amounts of units.

It likely cost Rockstar more money to port the GTA trilogy over to Switch and make it work than it would to port GTA5.

Chrkeller said:

To be fair image quality for the ps5 is being viewed on a giant TV.  Image quality for the Deck is being viewed on a small screen.  Poor image quality will looks way better on a small screen than a large.  The switch 2 is in a unique position because it has mobile hardware but still needs to look good on the big screen.

Deck outputs to a TV just fine and games look just fine.

GPU is:
23% less docked.
69% less undocked.

CPU is:
About 55%.

HoloDust said:

I remember there were some tests (subjective of course) where in many titles, folks preferred 4K DLSS Quality over 4K Native. So yeah, wasting GPU/CPU resources on 4K native is silly with such a good upscaler tech. I think we'll see lot more of what Ubi did for Star Wars Outlaws, putting upscaler into official system recommendations for game.

Very situational dependent.

Someone sitting 1 foot away on a 65" OLED would probably prefer 4k native over someone sitting 6 meters away on a 75" LCD.

Pixel density per perceived inch is important... But also the panel type, OLED having really inky blacks and amazing contrasts can show aliasing artifacts more readily due to the differences in light/dark areas.

I've long since lost interest.  Everyone has moved on.  I stand by my position.  Deal with it.

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 04 September 2024

Radek on 04 September 2024

I think most of current gen ports is possible and will happen. I suspect only 30 fps mode will be present though in most of them.



HoloDust on 04 September 2024
Chrkeller said:
HoloDust said:

I remember there were some tests (subjective of course) where in many titles, folks preferred 4K DLSS Quality over 4K Native. So yeah, wasting GPU/CPU resources on 4K native is silly with such a good upscaler tech. I think we'll see lot more of what Ubi did for Star Wars Outlaws, putting upscaler into official system recommendations for game.

If I were going to be super picky, only issue I have ever seen with DLSS 1440p to 4k was last of us part 1.  Metal railing in the distance shimmered a bit.  But that is a very poor port and being super picky.  I mean who cares if a railing 300 ft away has a slight shimmer when DLSS took me from 60-80 fps to 110-120 fps?

No issues with any other game.  In fact, quite often, I run 1440p DLSS to 4k even if my rig can do native.  It keeps temps way down and the rig runs super quiet.  

I have to be honest, as PC gamer of some 30 years at this point, I cared for fps in 80+ range only in FPS games - that is where I actually need them.
For everything else, especially if I'm using gamepad, I'm fine with 60, and I won't make much fuss even if I'm forced to play at 30 on consoles (though it does bother me somewhat visually).
But keeping the rig quieter - yeah, that's often my reason for using DLSS as well, while limiting fps to 60.



Chrkeller on 04 September 2024
HoloDust said:
Chrkeller said:

If I were going to be super picky, only issue I have ever seen with DLSS 1440p to 4k was last of us part 1.  Metal railing in the distance shimmered a bit.  But that is a very poor port and being super picky.  I mean who cares if a railing 300 ft away has a slight shimmer when DLSS took me from 60-80 fps to 110-120 fps?

No issues with any other game.  In fact, quite often, I run 1440p DLSS to 4k even if my rig can do native.  It keeps temps way down and the rig runs super quiet.  

I have to be honest, as PC gamer of some 30 years at this point, I cared for fps in 80+ range only in FPS games - that is where I actually need them.
For everything else, especially if I'm using gamepad, I'm fine with 60, and I won't make much fuss even if I'm forced to play at 30 on consoles (though it does bother me somewhat visually).
But keeping the rig quieter - yeah, that's often my reason for using DLSS as well, while limiting fps to 60.

I completely agree that the benefit of high fps depends on the genre.  FPS for sure, but I also really like it for something like Horizon and God of War, any game that pans the camera a lot looking for secrets.  RPGs it is completely unnecessary for sure.  I am running Tales of Arise at 120 fps, but if it were capped at 60 fps...  yeah perfectly fine.  

I deal with/accept for 30 fps on Nintendo games, just because I love their games and don't want to miss out.  But 30 fps bothers me.  Just too rough on the eyes.  

Hopefully I am not disappointed, but I can really see Nintendo targeting 60 fps in most first party titles on the S2.  It should have plenty of power to hit that target.  



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Phenomajp13 on 04 September 2024

Top games is very vague because what the op views as top games may not be the same as what Nintendo views as "top games". Op does seem to be referring to AAA games, so I'm going to say no because there are too many factors in getting all the AAA games. These factors include Nintendo releasing their platform possibly off schedule for several 3rd parties due them aligning their schedules with Sony/MS. There's also the difference in hardware between Nintendo and the other console manufacturers and Nintendo themselves not being interested in targeting every AAA release for their console. I do think Sony/MS do a better job at lobbying for AAA 3rd party support leading to them having better relationships with more AAA 3rd party developers.

As for "top games", I think Nintendo likely has a different definition than AAA games equals top games. I think Nintendo takes more into account than budget and also validates you as a top game based on your success as well. For example, Op brought up Call of Duty and Resident Evil as both top games but I'm sure Nintendo knows which should be more of a priority due to its far higher success (CoD). I think so far this generation, Nintendo has done a good job of getting the TOP of the "top games" such as Fortnite, Minecraft, Fifa, Apex Legends, Overwatch, and Rocket League along the miracle ports and the retained AAA support from Japanese devs like Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest. Nintendo just needs to gather support from a few more such as CoD (already on the way), more of the annual sports franchises like Madden, more Japanese developers support like Resident Evil and Final Fantasy, and more support but not all from Ubisoft (Assassins Creed), Take Two (Red Dead, GTA?), and EA. Of course the miracle ports will continue but I honestly think that's what we should expect next gen and maybe in another gen or 2 we see a real focus on including Nintendo in the plans of all AAA games. That is simply going to take more time and maybe even the Xbox brand bowing out.



burninmylight on 04 September 2024
Pemalite said:
burninmylight said:

Has the publisher or a developer come out and said that Rockstar couldn't get GTA5 to work on the Switch? You say that, then in the same post say that company politics play a big role as well.

As far as I know, Rockstar has never addressed why GTA5 isn't on Switch. We can't automatically blame that on the hardware, especially when the game could be ported up from older hardware.

Anything an Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 can do, the Switch can do better.
It's not a hardware limitation.

 

That was my point, but I see thatI read it too literally when you said "Rockstar couldn't even port GTA5 despite it being a 7th gen game ported to 8th gen and 9th gen consoles..."

You did say the Switch is capable of running it, my bad.



Conina on 04 September 2024
TheMisterManGuy said:

I think what people miss about third parties on Nintendo Switch is that third parties have treated the system like a Nintendo handheld. Which is important considering the Switch is a hybrid. If you compare third party support on Switch to something like the Game Boy Advance or Nintendo DS, then the Switch isn't actually that different from those systems (it's also better in some areas as well).

No, the third parties have NOT treated the Switch asa Nintendo handheld. The support was/is MUCH better!

Let's have a look at the "good games" (MetaScore 75+)

GBA: 173 games

Nintendo DS: 209 games

3DS: 152 games

Switch: 959 games (so far), over 85% of them third party games

Eventually the Switch will have 5x of "good games" compared to the Nintendo DS, 6x of "good games" compared to the GBA.



TheMisterManGuy on 04 September 2024
Conina said:
TheMisterManGuy said:

I think what people miss about third parties on Nintendo Switch is that third parties have treated the system like a Nintendo handheld. Which is important considering the Switch is a hybrid. If you compare third party support on Switch to something like the Game Boy Advance or Nintendo DS, then the Switch isn't actually that different from those systems (it's also better in some areas as well).

No, the third parties have NOT treated the Switch asa Nintendo handheld. The support was/is MUCH better!

Let's have a look at the "good games" (MetaScore 75+)

GBA: 173 games

Nintendo DS: 209 games

3DS: 152 games

Switch: 959 games (so far), over 85% of them third party games

Eventually the Switch will have 5x of "good games" compared to the Nintendo DS, 6x of "good games" compared to the GBA.

The Switch has more "good" games because it benefits from the rise of indies, which means more developers making more games. Digital distribution wasn't really a thing on GBA or DS (at least until DSi), so indies didn't exist the same way they do now. And the 3DS suffered from a drop in AAA physical support so that brought it down compared to Switch.

If you compare the type of support the Switch has gotten vs. the GBA and DS, it's very similar in a lot of ways

* Tons of JRPGs

* Unique/quirky titles

* Ports of big console franchises (DS was getting yearly CoD games for a while)

* Re-releases of classic games

The Switch inherits the type of support that Nintendo handhelds had always gotten, and takes a little from their home consoles and other systems too (Switch inhereted a lot of PSP/PS Vita franchises like Disgeia and Atelier for example)



curl-6 on 04 September 2024
Chrkeller said:
curl-6 said:

It will be interesting to see where Switch 2 lands in docked mode; 1080p made sense for the current Switch, for a device of its power level releasing in the time of PS4 and Xbox One. For its successor, launching presumably in 2025 and with a generational leap in power, you'd expect significantly higher.

Complicating matters is the possibility it employs DLSS.

Gonna be interesting to see for sure.

Nintendo games are not technically impressive, I mean that as a compliment.  Nintendo tends to push art and style.  Style will always, IMO, trump technical.  I still think WWHD is the "best" looking game I have played.  Tales of Arise is stunning, but not technically impressive. 

Technically impressive is kinda relative though; Nintendo's games are not advanced by AAA standards, simply because they are developed for mobile hardware.

On the other hand, games like Metroid Prime Remastered, Tears of the Kingdom, and Luigi's Mansion 3 are very technically impressive by the standards of the hardware they're running on.