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Forums - Movies & TV - Should comedians have boundaries?

 

Should comedians have boundaries?

Yes 12 20.00%
 
No 48 80.00%
 
Total:60
the-pi-guy said:

You've completely misunderstood what I'm saying. 

Comedians can make jokes about the Holocaust, about gay people, about trans people, about black people, etc. 

I have even posted a bit about black churches in this very thread. The key is, are they actually telling jokes, or are they spreading thinly veiled hate speech. 

Let's say a comedian is spreading thinly veiled hate speech. What would you suggest be done?



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the-pi-guy said:
Chrkeller said:

This.  Hurt feelings isn't a serious issue. 

Do you think ideas are harmless? 

Do you think it's harmless if a comedian is making jokes about "how people are idiots for thinking the holocaust happened"?

Yes.  Without implementation an idea is nothing.

Yes.  Many jokes were probably told last night at random bars across the world....  today is the same as yesterday.  The world didn't end.  

Controlling speech may make sense on paper...  but logistically it is problematic.  What is and isn't allowed?  Who decides and holds that extreme influence and power?  What happens if that power gets in the wrong hands?  What if Trump gets a 2nd term and deems anti MAGA articles as hate speech?  

Sorry I like freedom.  And yes, freedom means dealing with idiots who abuse it.  But I would rather deal with idiots than lose freedoms.  Once power is given up, getting it back isn't easy.....  just look at abortion in the US and how much freedom women just lost all because on paper it 'made sense' to let the states decide.

People need to slow their roll on giving up freedom.

Edit

If we had hate speech laws back in the 60s, MLK'S I have a Dream would have been considered hate speech.  So no, I don't want politicians deciding freedom of speech.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 02 May 2024

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While I 100% agree with Freedom of Speech, over the years I have come to think that good comedians are family friendly.

If you are funny, you are funny. If you need to put swear words in, or use "shock tactics"... well... that's usually because you're not very good.

That's the same with a lot of stuff actually: in films you get excessive violence, excessive action scenes, something that gets called "gritty and realistic", excessive romance, jump scares, and so on. They do it because they aren't good at writing a plot, so they put a 10 minute car chase in.



the-pi-guy said:
shavenferret said:

Jokes may make sensitive snowflakes burn in anger. But you're wanting to normalize and even go farther than that, to institutionalize this sensitivity to words. It would make the United States a pathetic society. We won this from the British when we decided that we wouldn't take it anymore. We didn't whine or cry, we got our guns and took the nation rightfully. But the snowflakes won't win. Most of the people here have disagreed with you, and in my humble opinion, sanity and reason has prevailed. 

Conservatives sure do love their fan fiction. 

Tell us about the one where the imaginary lib got red in the face when someone said Merry Christmas to him! 

Jumpin said:

Jimmy Carr has plenty of jokes about the Holocaust.

Jojo Rabbit is filled with anti-Semitic jokes.

A ban on Holocaust humour would be a ban on that comedian and that film. Jimmy Carr was attacked (cancelled, if you will) by a horde of angry righteous crusaders. A comedian who leans dark and satirical and the joke was on a special called “His dark material” which came out in late 2021 - but the cancel-mob didn’t get around to clipping and cancelling him for several months afterwards.

Tell me, what harm did his Holocaust joke do? Or any of his Holocaust jokes do?

Anyway, Jimmy Carr has a response for the next time he gets cancelled:

You've completely misunderstood what I'm saying. 

Comedians can make jokes about the Holocaust, about gay people, about trans people, about black people, etc. 

I have even posted a bit about black churches in this very thread. The key is, are they actually telling jokes, or are they spreading thinly veiled hate speech. 

But who is to decide what is a joke and what is thinly veiled hate speech? If you give that freedom to the government, they will decide for you. And you are bound to hate one of their decisions eventually.

Last edited by JuliusHackebeil - on 02 May 2024

“Take away the right to say ‘fuck’ and you take away the right to say ‘fuck the government.” 

- Lenny Bruce



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JuliusHackebeil said:
the-pi-guy said:

Conservatives sure do love their fan fiction. 

Tell us about the one where the imaginary lib got red in the face when someone said Merry Christmas to him! 

Jumpin said:

Jimmy Carr has plenty of jokes about the Holocaust.

Jojo Rabbit is filled with anti-Semitic jokes.

A ban on Holocaust humour would be a ban on that comedian and that film. Jimmy Carr was attacked (cancelled, if you will) by a horde of angry righteous crusaders. A comedian who leans dark and satirical and the joke was on a special called “His dark material” which came out in late 2021 - but the cancel-mob didn’t get around to clipping and cancelling him for several months afterwards.

Tell me, what harm did his Holocaust joke do? Or any of his Holocaust jokes do?

Anyway, Jimmy Carr has a response for the next time he gets cancelled:

You've completely misunderstood what I'm saying. 

Comedians can make jokes about the Holocaust, about gay people, about trans people, about black people, etc. 

I have even posted a bit about black churches in this very thread. The key is, are they actually telling jokes, or are they spreading thinly veiled hate speech. 

But who is to decide what is a joke and what is thinly veiled hate speech? If you give that freedom to the government, they will decide for you. And you are bound to hate one of their decisions eventually.

Prosecuting that would become the biggest headache that America has ever had. The very implementation of this idea would become politicized, and endlessly argued over by our high price court system. The idea of nuance would have to come into play with regards as to whether a remark was indeed hate speech or not, and and appealled when a bad result happens. Plus, comedians as a whole, are very unconscientous people. That's why they are funny though, with the whole making fun of others and situations.  So they probably have more hate speech than the rest of us because they are assholes, and even then, I still support Comedy and freedom. Prosecuting hate speech would bankrupt America and I won't stand for it. I want us to pay for things that matter like schools, parks, highways, social security, etc rather than a salve for someone's hurt feelings. 



shavenferret said:
JuliusHackebeil said:

But who is to decide what is a joke and what is thinly veiled hate speech? If you give that freedom to the government, they will decide for you. And you are bound to hate one of their decisions eventually.

Prosecuting that would become the biggest headache that America has ever had. The very implementation of this idea would become politicized, and endlessly argued over by our high price court system. The idea of nuance would have to come into play with regards as to whether a remark was indeed hate speech or not, and and appealled when a bad result happens. Plus, comedians as a whole, are very unconscientous people. That's why they are funny though, with the whole making fun of others and situations.  So they probably have more hate speech than the rest of us because they are assholes, and even then, I still support Comedy and freedom. Prosecuting hate speech would bankrupt America and I won't stand for it. I want us to pay for things that matter like schools, parks, highways, social security, etc rather than a salve for someone's hurt feelings. 

Yeah, sounds like a nightmare. Especially in the current climate where everybody is chronically offended and cries hate speech at the drop of a hat. Being a victim is more important than being honest. Recently saw a graph on how many times the words "race", "racism" and "racist" were used in some major news publications in the last 20 years, or so. No surprise that these words usage had exponential growth. Rampant abuse of these laws is absolutely inevitable.



shavenferret said:
CourageTCD said:

*sigh. Ok, then

Jokes may make sensitive snowflakes burn in anger. But you're wanting to normalize and even go farther than that, to institutionalize this sensitivity to words. It would make the United States a pathetic society. We won this from the British when we decided that we wouldn't take it anymore. We didn't whine or cry, we got our guns and took the nation rightfully. But the snowflakes won't win. Most of the people here have disagreed with you, and in my humble opinion, sanity and reason has prevailed. 

Not too familiar with our own history are you.  We whined for a ton of stuff long before guns got involved.  

Guess you forgot the night we dressed up as Native Americans and dumped tea into the Boston harbor.



shavenferret said:
JuliusHackebeil said:

But who is to decide what is a joke and what is thinly veiled hate speech? If you give that freedom to the government, they will decide for you. And you are bound to hate one of their decisions eventually.

Prosecuting that would become the biggest headache that America has ever had. The very implementation of this idea would become politicized, and endlessly argued over by our high price court system. The idea of nuance would have to come into play with regards as to whether a remark was indeed hate speech or not, and and appealled when a bad result happens. Plus, comedians as a whole, are very unconscientous people. That's why they are funny though, with the whole making fun of others and situations.  So they probably have more hate speech than the rest of us because they are assholes, and even then, I still support Comedy and freedom. Prosecuting hate speech would bankrupt America and I won't stand for it. I want us to pay for things that matter like schools, parks, highways, social security, etc rather than a salve for someone's hurt feelings. 

It typically takes years for a comedian to get big enough to even earn a paltry living.  Spitballing inaccurate numbers here, but out of the 10s of thousands of stand-up comedians, what, maybe 200 make the money needed to be able to fend of litigation ... You want to talk about punching down see how easily the government can punch down on a poor citizen trying to defend themselves in court. 



It's the job of comedians to decide where their boundaries should be.



Love and tolerate.