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Forums - Movies & TV - Should comedians have boundaries?

 

Should comedians have boundaries?

Yes 12 19.67%
 
No 49 80.33%
 
Total:61
CourageTCD said:
Chrkeller said:

Yes.  Yes I do.  

*sigh. Ok, then

I hadn't read the rest of the thread when I responded to him. 

Yeah, these are the words of someone either too ignorant to know better or too heartless to care. Basic empathy can't be taught, sadly. 



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No.
Everyone should be able to laugh at themselves and nobody should be a protected species.
If you don't like it, just don't watch it.

Threats and such like are already covered by the law, let the audience decide what kind of comedy they want to watch.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 02 May 2024

I still disagree with the premise that runa and the pink dog had, that words hurt us so much that they should be illegal or at the very least are deplorable. I mean, how can you let the opinion of someone who means nothing to you affect you that much? You'll never meet any of these people, but yet their words tear you apart. I don't get it, I guess because I think that the real tragedies in life are much worse than some comic talking shit .
For example:
-getting a positive hiv test
-getting addicted to anything
- idd people( formerly called retarded) that live their lives in some house and can't make their own decisions, will never have any challenges and little hope for a wife or husband of their own
-homelessness
-poverty
-being crippled after an accident or incident
-dealing with mental illness
etc.


These are the real tragedies and that's why liberals can seem really shallow, it's like they just care about being politically correct, when there are more important things that we aren't taking care of in America.



shavenferret said:

I still disagree with the premise that runa and the pink dog had, that words hurt us so much that they should be illegal or at the very least are deplorable. I mean, how can you let the opinion of someone who means nothing to you affect you that much? You'll never meet any of these people, but yet their words tear you apart. I don't get it, I guess because I think that the real tragedies in life are much worse than some comic talking shit .
For example:
-getting a positive hiv test
-getting addicted to anything
- idd people( formerly called retarded) that live their lives in some house and can't make their own decisions, will never have any challenges and little hope for a wife or husband of their own
-homelessness
-poverty
-being crippled after an accident or incident
-dealing with mental illness
etc.


These are the real tragedies and that's why liberals can seem really shallow, it's like they just care about being politically correct, when there are more important things that we aren't taking care of in America.

Because you're missing the critical point that ideas people have, affect how other people get treated.


Most of the tragedies in your list were and are still to this day made worse by people having poor ideas.

HIV affected the wrong group, and society collectively decided not to do anything about it. 

People to this day are still struggling to get help with their mental health, because of poor ideas.

Homeless people/people in poverty get ostracized and blamed for their own misfortune.

If enough people think black people should be brought into slavery, that's not good (to put it lightly).

If enough people think that Jews should be exterminated, that's not good (to put it lightly).

Historically and to this day, billions of people have been mistreated or actively murdered because of ideas that other people put into their heads. 

How do those horrific ideas get propagated? Through propaganda, through news media, through comedians, through governments, through social media. All kinds of different avenues.

shavenferret said:

These are the real tragedies and that's why liberals can seem really shallow, it's like they just care about being politically correct, when there are more important things that we aren't taking care of in America.

It's why conservatives seem really shallow. Because they do not understand how ideas shape society. 



Runa216 said:
CourageTCD said:

*sigh. Ok, then

I hadn't read the rest of the thread when I responded to him. 

Yeah, these are the words of someone either too ignorant to know better or too heartless to care. Basic empathy can't be taught, sadly. 

Or the words of someone who understands the real issues of the world.  Comedian jokes aren't one the them.  

My 2 cents is people need to worry more about themselves and less about others.  The younger generation seems obsessed with everyone but themselves.  

But hey too each their own.  



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Runa216 said:
Chrkeller said:

This.  Hurt feelings isn't a serious issue. 

Nothing in this world exists outside of context. Jokes, if they normalize bigotry, can absolutely be damaging. That's why it's so important to distinguish between actual comedy and bigotry masquerading as comedy. 

Do you think it would be appropriate if I told some joke that included a bunch of hard Rs or called people retards or made light of gay people in a way that insinuated they were all pedos or groomers? Because people make those jokes and it's treated in some communities like it's normal, like it's acceptable, like queer folk are deviants, where the 'joke' lies in how absurd it is that these people are allowed to exist in the spaces of others. 

People absolutely make jokes that are harmful. And if they're offensive, they need to be equally poignant or at least equally funny. If it's just an excuse to treat it as a valve to release and speak racism or sexism that you can't share openly...then it's damaging. 

Nothing exists in a vacuum. Without context sure, 'jokes' shouldn't have limits. but we don't live in a world where that's possible. We have centuries of historical context that paint those jokes in a certain light. 

IT's like these people who like to pretend we 'fixed' racism because OF the civil rights movement. And 'fixed' sexism because of suffrage. Like, on the books black people and women are legally people but that doesn't erase decades - nay, centuries - of history wherein that was NOT the case. You can't just flip a switch and then shoot finger guns at someone and say 'we good'. History is a factor. That's true in life and in comedy. So while devoid of context comedy has no bounds, GOOD comedy absolutely does and GOOD comedians understand the difference between just shouting obscenities and bigotry vs making offensive material with a point behind it. 

I genuinely don't trust anyone who prefers to strip any situation of its context, nuance, and depth. IT reeks of someone who either doesn't understand the circumstances surrounding the topics they discuss or they don't care and just want to stop hearing about it. 

You can tell whatever you joke you want.  I could not care less.

You don't trust me because I don't think jokes are a huge issue in America?  That is quite funny.  But here is the thing, I don't care.  You not trusting me has 0.0% impact on my life....  which links back to my original point in this thread...

Words are words, and people need to worry less about others and more about themselves.



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the-pi-guy said:
shavenferret said:

I still disagree with the premise that runa and the pink dog had, that words hurt us so much that they should be illegal or at the very least are deplorable. I mean, how can you let the opinion of someone who means nothing to you affect you that much? You'll never meet any of these people, but yet their words tear you apart. I don't get it, I guess because I think that the real tragedies in life are much worse than some comic talking shit .
For example:
-getting a positive hiv test
-getting addicted to anything
- idd people( formerly called retarded) that live their lives in some house and can't make their own decisions, will never have any challenges and little hope for a wife or husband of their own
-homelessness
-poverty
-being crippled after an accident or incident
-dealing with mental illness
etc.


These are the real tragedies and that's why liberals can seem really shallow, it's like they just care about being politically correct, when there are more important things that we aren't taking care of in America.

Because you're missing the critical point that ideas people have, affect how other people get treated.


Most of the tragedies in your list were and are still to this day made worse by people having poor ideas.

HIV affected the wrong group, and society collectively decided not to do anything about it. 

People to this day are still struggling to get help with their mental health, because of poor ideas.

Homeless people/people in poverty get ostracized and blamed for their own misfortune.

If enough people think black people should be brought into slavery, that's not good (to put it lightly).

If enough people think that Jews should be exterminated, that's not good (to put it lightly).

Historically and to this day, billions of people have been mistreated or actively murdered because of ideas that other people put into their heads. 

How do those horrific ideas get propagated? Through propaganda, through news media, through comedians, through governments, through social media. All kinds of different avenues.

shavenferret said:

These are the real tragedies and that's why liberals can seem really shallow, it's like they just care about being politically correct, when there are more important things that we aren't taking care of in America.

It's why conservatives seem really shallow. Because they do not understand how ideas shape society. 

But here's the thing - if an idea is awful or holds no water, it will NEVER gain enough popularity to gain much traction or shape society in the first place. Or if the rare time it does, it will not last long and the pendulum will swing back to sanity and truth, overwhelming it. The truth always wins out in the end. Comedy that bases its humor off lies is never going to be funny on the same level of comedy that draws from truth (or at least a grain of truth). I never understood why people have so much fear of ideas that are false or without merit. If this is the case - if they ARE in fact so false and unpopular, why worry about them, or the effect they'll have? At the end of the day isn't this just another form of "Democracy"?

Again, at the end of the day, if you hate the stuff, just don't watch it. Let society and capitalism sort if all out. It's why I steer clear of people like Stephen Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel. I may not like them and find them to be more unfunny propagandists than comedians, but I absolutely think they get to have a voice, even if that voice is reaching a dwindling number of people :P



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

the-pi-guy said:
shavenferret said:

I still disagree with the premise that runa and the pink dog had, that words hurt us so much that they should be illegal or at the very least are deplorable. I mean, how can you let the opinion of someone who means nothing to you affect you that much? You'll never meet any of these people, but yet their words tear you apart. I don't get it, I guess because I think that the real tragedies in life are much worse than some comic talking shit .
For example:
-getting a positive hiv test
-getting addicted to anything
- idd people( formerly called retarded) that live their lives in some house and can't make their own decisions, will never have any challenges and little hope for a wife or husband of their own
-homelessness
-poverty
-being crippled after an accident or incident
-dealing with mental illness
etc.


These are the real tragedies and that's why liberals can seem really shallow, it's like they just care about being politically correct, when there are more important things that we aren't taking care of in America.

Because you're missing the critical point that ideas people have, affect how other people get treated.


Most of the tragedies in your list were and are still to this day made worse by people having poor ideas.

HIV affected the wrong group, and society collectively decided not to do anything about it. 

People to this day are still struggling to get help with their mental health, because of poor ideas.

Homeless people/people in poverty get ostracized and blamed for their own misfortune.

If enough people think black people should be brought into slavery, that's not good (to put it lightly).

If enough people think that Jews should be exterminated, that's not good (to put it lightly).

Historically and to this day, billions of people have been mistreated or actively murdered because of ideas that other people put into their heads. 

How do those horrific ideas get propagated? Through propaganda, through news media, through comedians, through governments, through social media. All kinds of different avenues.

shavenferret said:

These are the real tragedies and that's why liberals can seem really shallow, it's like they just care about being politically correct, when there are more important things that we aren't taking care of in America.

It's why conservatives seem really shallow. Because they do not understand how ideas shape society. 

You can’t say you weren’t talking about comedy in a previous post and then come back and say that you are.

I don’t buy your arguments at all, South Park spent over 25 years joking about all those subjects.

Comedy and hate speech are not the same thing.

Hitler stood up and spoke before a crowd. Hitler was a clown. But that is not stand-up comedy. I think you should learn the difference between the two.

Sure, some of these jokes made by South Park may encourage some credulous twat to be more antisemitic, but that’s a small minority at best, and not the fault or general result of comedy… it’s because of inbreeding.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Runa216 said:
Chrkeller said:

This.  Hurt feelings isn't a serious issue. 

Nothing in this world exists outside of context. Jokes, if they normalize bigotry, can absolutely be damaging. That's why it's so important to distinguish between actual comedy and bigotry masquerading as comedy. 

Do you think it would be appropriate if I told some joke that included a bunch of hard Rs or called people retards or made light of gay people in a way that insinuated they were all pedos or groomers? Because people make those jokes and it's treated in some communities like it's normal, like it's acceptable, like queer folk are deviants, where the 'joke' lies in how absurd it is that these people are allowed to exist in the spaces of others. 

People absolutely make jokes that are harmful. And if they're offensive, they need to be equally poignant or at least equally funny. If it's just an excuse to treat it as a valve to release and speak racism or sexism that you can't share openly...then it's damaging. 

Nothing exists in a vacuum. Without context sure, 'jokes' shouldn't have limits. but we don't live in a world where that's possible. We have centuries of historical context that paint those jokes in a certain light. 

IT's like these people who like to pretend we 'fixed' racism because OF the civil rights movement. And 'fixed' sexism because of suffrage. Like, on the books black people and women are legally people but that doesn't erase decades - nay, centuries - of history wherein that was NOT the case. You can't just flip a switch and then shoot finger guns at someone and say 'we good'. History is a factor. That's true in life and in comedy. So while devoid of context comedy has no bounds, GOOD comedy absolutely does and GOOD comedians understand the difference between just shouting obscenities and bigotry vs making offensive material with a point behind it. 

I genuinely don't trust anyone who prefers to strip any situation of its context, nuance, and depth. IT reeks of someone who either doesn't understand the circumstances surrounding the topics they discuss or they don't care and just want to stop hearing about it. 

Which jokes have made you more homophobic?

Let me try one:

A gay man, a Daily Wire Host, and a raging pedophile walks into a bar. He says “I’ll have a Coors light.”



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

DarthMetalliCube said:

But here's the thing - if an idea is awful or holds no water, it will NEVER gain enough popularity to gain much traction or shape society in the first place. Or if the rare time it does, it will not last long and the pendulum will swing back to sanity and truth, overwhelming it. The truth always wins out in the end.

If this is the case - if they ARE in fact so false and unpopular, why worry about them, or the effect they'll have? At the end of the day isn't this just another form of "Democracy"?

That's because there are people who fight for the right things.

Slavery lasted hundreds of years, before enough fighting happened that ended it.

These things don't just magically go away. Awful ideas get put down by people who fight them.

Who said anything about these ideas being unpopular? A lot of terrible ideas are incredibly popular or becoming more popular. 

Jumpin said:

You can’t say you weren’t talking about comedy in a previous post and then come back and say that you are.

I don’t buy your arguments at all, South Park spent over 25 years joking about all those subjects.

Comedy and hate speech are not the same thing.

Hitler stood up and spoke before a crowd. Hitler was a clown. But that is not stand-up comedy. I think you should learn the difference between the two.

Sure, some of these jokes made by South Park may encourage some credulous twat to be more antisemitic, but that’s a small minority at best, and not the fault or general result of comedy… it’s because of inbreeding.

My last comment was that you misunderstood what I was talking about. 
I didn't say I wasn't talking about comedy. 

Hate speech can overlap with comedy. 

If a comedian were putting Hitler's talking points into their bits, do you think that would be fine? Do you think that is impossible for some reason? 

>I don’t think any comedian should be limited on any subject.

You can make jokes about the holocaust, you can make jokes about 9/11, you can make jokes about trans people and black people. 

The issue isn't the subject. Who are you making fun of when you make the joke. Plenty of comedians and plenty of comedy movie/tv series still make outrageous things just the way you like, and it works because the real joke is frequently that the person is an idiot.