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Forums - Sales Discussion - FF7 Rebirth has reportedly sold half what Remake did in the same timeframe

IcaroRibeiro said:
Soundwave said:

But these aren't 10 million sellers really. 

Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen sold 2.4 million on PS4 + XB1 and another 1.1 million on Switch, so Switch is 30% of the sales between the 3 platforms

Resident Evil 6 re-release port sold 3 million on PS4 + XB1 (released in 2016) and another 1 million on Switch (released in 2019), now also understand the Switch version came out 3 years after the PS4/XB1 ports, and we are also talking about a 2012 game releasing on Switch all the way in 2019. 

1 million is really not much on Switch, there are tons of Switch 3rd party games crossing 1 million+ all the time.

Monster Hunter Stories 2 has sold 2.9 million, probably not a stretch to suggest 1 million of that would be from the Switch. 

I believe Resident Evil Revelations Collection also sold 1.4 million copies on Switch and that isn't a 10 million seller either. 

I don't think it will do that overnight, but with time I think it would get to 1 million. The Switch moves a ton of software, there's lots of 3rd party games making good money on it and selling slowly but surely as every month goes on. 

They have no choice anyway, because if Square does not build a bigger net for the FF7 Remake series ... it means FF7 Remake Part III is going to sell even less than Rebirth because you're not going to get 100% of the people from the PS5 to buy Part III. There will be some drop off. You need customers from other platforms to hop on board the saga and give you a bigger base to build from. 

You know what sucks worse than only 1.75-2 million in initial sales? Even less than that for FF7 Remake Part III. 

If you are talking about Darken Arise it also sold an additional 3.9 million copies with its PS3/X360 version. The version that came to PS4/XBONE was 4 years old already 

The same point holds true for RE 6, over 9 million sold on PS3/X360

You're comparing Switch port sales with PS4/Xbone port sales. Those games were also old when they came to last gen consoles (RE6 was 4 years old), granted, Switch version came 3 years later the porcentage keeps heavily favoring Sony and MS version 

Switch notably have much higher percentages from third party for IPs that are historically present in Nintendo platforms, notably Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest. But games heavily associated to Playstation are likely to keep much higher sales percentage on Playstation, which is why I think 400k is the ceiling for Rebirth on Switch 2 if it's ever get a release 

Regardless, I agree Square needs to go multiplat even if it's just because Sony is no longer buying exclusivity, but this will not increase Final Fantasy sales substantially

I mean Dragon's Dogma has like no predecessor on Nintendo platforms as far I know, 1.1 million is pretty high honestly given that. 

Other IP that seem to be faring well on Switch now is Persona, which wasn't on the system before. 

You just gotta bring the games over, Switch has such a high install base and such high software sales that almost every high profile release I think comes in at around 1 million or close eventually. 

They have to try multiplat because you can't as a president of a company just say "well, guess it's over for Final Fantasy, wrap it up and get ready for 2 million LTD for Final Fantasy Remake Part III", like that's not an acceptable attitude to have. It's your job if you're the president to turn that around, it's your job to try.

It's not just about immediate sales either, franchises that see long term growth tend to put in work building up new audiences, it may not be glamorous fighting even for a few 100k, but that can add up over time to a lot of new gamers. You look at IP like Pikmin, Nintendo has been slowly and slowly building up the fan base for that generation after generation. They need to start getting players back, especially in Japan, how the fuck do you lose an entire 4 million fan base in a country when Monster Hunter, Pokemon, Zelda, Dragon Quest are all as popular as they were 20 years ago. Unacceptable. 



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IcaroRibeiro said:
curl-6 said:

Hogwarts on Switch made up a substantial portion of sales, more than half some weeks on the UK charts:

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2024/02/uk-charts-top-three-receive-another-shake-up-but-mario-stands-firm (53% this Feb)

Hogwarts had the third biggest launch of a Switch game in 2023 behind only Mario and Zelda:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/17zuk8t/christopher_dring_a_huge_surge_in_sales_of/

As for FF7, it would almost certainly do more than 300-400k. Nintendo has cultivated an audience that loves JRPGs.

If half of the console sales are from Switch I will give a 25% to 35% split on post launch sales, as we nee to account for PC sales as well not included on UK charts 

The game sold 22 million in 2023, with 2 million copies from Christmas. I guess it was sitting on 19 million before Switch release and has ever since moved additional 5 million 

With a 25% to 35% total for those 5 million for Switch means Switch version sits between 1.25 million copies and 1.75 million copies. Read: Between 6 and 8% of its total sales, which was what I asked in my post

I don't believe a late port with very downgrade graphics will past anywhere over the 10% total sales on Switch 2 hence why don't think Rebirth will sell anything more than sub-400k copies but alas, we have to wait and see 

Point is, 400k may be enough to cover development costs and make a bit of profit but not to salvage the game and even less so to cover the free money and marketing Sony used to give to Square

The latest numbers for Hogwarts are from January, at which point the Switch version had only been out for less than two and half months vs a year for the PS5/XBS versions; hardly a fair comparison. It's off to a strong start with the third biggest Switch opening of 2023 and has shown good legs since. It's much too early to call its lifetime share of sales.

FF7 on Switch 2 would almost certainly be a million plus seller, most of which would be pure profit as porting is vastly cheaper than actually making a game. For a game that's failing to meet its sales projections, that's a much needed boost.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 23 May 2024

curl-6 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

If half of the console sales are from Switch I will give a 25% to 35% split on post launch sales, as we nee to account for PC sales as well not included on UK charts 

The game sold 22 million in 2023, with 2 million copies from Christmas. I guess it was sitting on 19 million before Switch release and has ever since moved additional 5 million 

With a 25% to 35% total for those 5 million for Switch means Switch version sits between 1.25 million copies and 1.75 million copies. Read: Between 6 and 8% of its total sales, which was what I asked in my post

I don't believe a late port with very downgrade graphics will past anywhere over the 10% total sales on Switch 2 hence why don't think Rebirth will sell anything more than sub-400k copies but alas, we have to wait and see 

Point is, 400k may be enough to cover development costs and make a bit of profit but not to salvage the game and even less so to cover the free money and marketing Sony used to give to Square

The latest numbers for Hogwarts are from January, at which point the Switch version had only been out for less than two and half months. To make judgements about its lifetime sales from just two and a half months is silly, especially when it's off to a strong start with the third biggest Switch opening of 2023 and has shown good legs since.

FF7 on Switch 2 would almost certainly be a million seller, possibly multiple millions; most of which would be pure profit as porting is vastly cheaper than actually making a game. For a game that's failing to meet its sales projections, that's a much needed boost.

It would sell a million fairly easily especially if released in a good window (like launch) ... there's no way FF is less popular among Nintendo fans than something like Dragon's Dogma is, if that sold 1.1 million and is a port of a game from 2013, I mean I think FF7 Remake and Rebirth would do fine. Kingdom Hearts III even as a late port I think would sell 1+ million also. 

Other thing is there's probably going to be more room for 3rd parties on Switch 2 because Nintendo is not likely to be able to keep pumping out new games at the same rate going forward, virtually every publisher has hit up against a wall in production time when they get to PS4 and beyond level visuals. More opportunities for 3rd parties to step in who have plenty of PS4/PS5 content already finished just waiting to be ported over. 



I not sure about FF on the switch. Icaro brings up a good point. I'm not sure today's gamers consider FF a top franchise anymore.

Edit

I also find it interesting that MH World sold considerably more than MH Rise. 

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 23 May 2024

curl-6 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

If half of the console sales are from Switch I will give a 25% to 35% split on post launch sales, as we nee to account for PC sales as well not included on UK charts 

The game sold 22 million in 2023, with 2 million copies from Christmas. I guess it was sitting on 19 million before Switch release and has ever since moved additional 5 million 

With a 25% to 35% total for those 5 million for Switch means Switch version sits between 1.25 million copies and 1.75 million copies. Read: Between 6 and 8% of its total sales, which was what I asked in my post

I don't believe a late port with very downgrade graphics will past anywhere over the 10% total sales on Switch 2 hence why don't think Rebirth will sell anything more than sub-400k copies but alas, we have to wait and see 

Point is, 400k may be enough to cover development costs and make a bit of profit but not to salvage the game and even less so to cover the free money and marketing Sony used to give to Square

The latest numbers for Hogwarts are from January, at which point the Switch version had only been out for less than two and half months. To make judgements about its lifetime sales from just two and a half months is silly, especially when it's off to a strong start with the third biggest Switch opening of 2023 and has shown good legs since.

FF7 on Switch 2 would almost certainly be a million seller, possibly multiple millions; most of which would be pure profit as porting is vastly cheaper than actually making a game. For a game that's failing to meet its sales projections, that's a much needed boost.

Porting to PC and Xbox is somewhat cheap, but it still takes months for SE to do the ports.

Porting to Switch is significantly more challenging. Games that get ported to Switch tend to be games that are guaranteed to make a return. Switch 2, we don't know anything about yet, so no comment.



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Farsala said:
curl-6 said:

The latest numbers for Hogwarts are from January, at which point the Switch version had only been out for less than two and half months. To make judgements about its lifetime sales from just two and a half months is silly, especially when it's off to a strong start with the third biggest Switch opening of 2023 and has shown good legs since.

FF7 on Switch 2 would almost certainly be a million seller, possibly multiple millions; most of which would be pure profit as porting is vastly cheaper than actually making a game. For a game that's failing to meet its sales projections, that's a much needed boost.

Porting to PC and Xbox is somewhat cheap, but it still takes months for SE to do the ports.

Porting to Switch is significantly more challenging. Games that get ported to Switch tend to be games that are guaranteed to make a return. Switch 2, we don't know anything about yet, so no comment.

We know plenty about the S2.  Super powerful, cheap, will sell over 100 million and will be the lead platform for third party!  Haven't you kept up with the news?!!?

Jokes aside.  100% aligned.  I'm waiting on Nintendo and confirmation before making too many S2 assumptions.  



Farsala said:
curl-6 said:

The latest numbers for Hogwarts are from January, at which point the Switch version had only been out for less than two and half months. To make judgements about its lifetime sales from just two and a half months is silly, especially when it's off to a strong start with the third biggest Switch opening of 2023 and has shown good legs since.

FF7 on Switch 2 would almost certainly be a million seller, possibly multiple millions; most of which would be pure profit as porting is vastly cheaper than actually making a game. For a game that's failing to meet its sales projections, that's a much needed boost.

Porting to PC and Xbox is somewhat cheap, but it still takes months for SE to do the ports.

Porting to Switch is significantly more challenging. Games that get ported to Switch tend to be games that are guaranteed to make a return. Switch 2, we don't know anything about yet, so no comment.

A port of FF7 would be a pretty safe bet to make a return, and Switch ports aren't that expensive or risky given we've seen everything from Doom to Grounded to Outer Worlds to Sniper Elite to Kingdom Come Deliverance make the jump.

That Switch 2 will offer a worthwhile market is also a reasonably safe bet. Nothing's guaranteed, of course, but at this stage its safer to assume success than failure.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 23 May 2024

When you sell 150+ million hardware systems, you will get more of the benefit of the doubt next time around. Just how it goes.

Square-Enix is going to have to learn how to port games faster now that they have changed direction and are by their own description "aggressively" pursuing a multiplatform strategy, it shouldn't take months on end to port games other major publishers do it in a fraction of the time.

IMO I wouldn't be all that surprised if what was really happening in the past was Sony was feeding them a few bucks here and there to slow down on any ports and make them as slowly as possible and Square-Enix being stupid was taking the bait. Sony is petty, I wouldn't even be surprised if they kept the original Final Fantasy VII (the PS1 one) off Nintendo systems for a lot longer than it had to be (took 25 years for Square to port it to any Nintendo system? Really Square?). It sure as fuck could have been ported to a number of Nintendo systems prior. So glad Square-Enix is ditching that whole shitty relationship.



Soundwave said:

When you sell 150+ million hardware systems, you will get more of the benefit of the doubt next time around. Just how it goes.

Square-Enix is going to have to learn how to port games faster now that they have changed direction and are by their own description "aggressively" pursuing a multiplatform strategy, it shouldn't take months on end to port games other major publishers do it in a fraction of the time.

IMO I wouldn't be all that surprised if what was really happening in the past was Sony was feeding them a few bucks here and there to slow down on any ports and make them as slowly as possible and Square-Enix being stupid was taking the bait. Sony is petty, I wouldn't even be surprised if they kept the original Final Fantasy VII (the PS1 one) off Nintendo systems for a lot longer than it had to be (took 25 years for Square to port it to any Nintendo system? Really Square?). It sure as fuck could have been ported to a number of Nintendo systems prior. So glad Square-Enix is ditching that whole shitty relationship.

Ports should be faster when they are not built with a single piece of hardware in mind.  I've always assumed FF was built with playstation in mind, so lot's of custom coding, thus ports were not easy.  Same reason TLoU was a god awful port.  If Square develops more generically using graphic setting sliders, making ports super quick.  Capcom figured it out years ago with RE.  

Fact is, outside Nintendo, exclusives are dead.  Even Nintendo, I think, at some point will support more hardware.  Granted I think we are at least 10 years out from that.  



Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

When you sell 150+ million hardware systems, you will get more of the benefit of the doubt next time around. Just how it goes.

Square-Enix is going to have to learn how to port games faster now that they have changed direction and are by their own description "aggressively" pursuing a multiplatform strategy, it shouldn't take months on end to port games other major publishers do it in a fraction of the time.

IMO I wouldn't be all that surprised if what was really happening in the past was Sony was feeding them a few bucks here and there to slow down on any ports and make them as slowly as possible and Square-Enix being stupid was taking the bait. Sony is petty, I wouldn't even be surprised if they kept the original Final Fantasy VII (the PS1 one) off Nintendo systems for a lot longer than it had to be (took 25 years for Square to port it to any Nintendo system? Really Square?). It sure as fuck could have been ported to a number of Nintendo systems prior. So glad Square-Enix is ditching that whole shitty relationship.

Ports should be faster when they are not built with a single piece of hardware in mind.  I've always assumed FF was built with playstation in mind, so lot's of custom coding, thus ports were not easy.  Same reason TLoU was a god awful port.  If Square develops more generically using graphic setting sliders, making ports super quick.  Capcom figured it out years ago with RE.  

Fact is, outside Nintendo, exclusives are dead.  Even Nintendo, I think, at some point will support more hardware.  Granted I think we are at least 10 years out from that.  

They're not even *starting* ports until the exclusivity periods are over ... no shit your port is going to take longer when you don't even start it, what's the reason for waiting months to even being the porting process? It's nonsense and it's all part of their weird deals they were making with Sony. 

Square was a dumb company that was living in 1999, their new president finally has said enough is enough. It's like a girl who gets into a relationship with a guy that won't let her see any of her other friends, and this goes on for years, she realizes she's unhappy, at some point she needs to just break up with him. 

Exclusives are dead which is good for Nintendo, not so great for Sony though. Nintendo will double down on it because they love it when they are the "special one" in the industry, so if you're waiting for that, you'll be waiting a long, long time probably.