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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Hellblade II is 30fps on Xbox Series consoles

Anyone who expects any gaming console to have all games at 60fps or more hasn't been paying attention to the last 30+ years of history.

In a fixed hardware environment, you need to sacrifice the low-hanging fruit in order to increase visual fidelity... And the first cuts are always frame-rates and resolution.

And that will never change.



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I think about it this way.

You want to make a console with a 4k target in mind, you don't want devs to be held back in any way. You analyze the latest games and where they suffer bottlenecks on currently available hardware. Then you make a console to have ample headroom on any given capabilities and even more where you identified bottlenecks with current offerings.

The console is released and marketed as a 4k beast. Then devs use the available resources to increase the number of applied shaders, and the definition of meshes, use more complex AA, shadow, and lighting strategies, and increase draw distance. This creates a context that you did not and could not test properly and as a result the system still struggles to it 4k.

Did you lie about the console being made for 4k?

Because this is what happens. Console manufacturers create systems that offer capabilities but they cannot control how those would be used. They could if they issued license agreements that force devs to hit those targets but that would be too restrictive.

Then you could say 'Then they should not market it as a 4k console'. But, just as with the above fictitious scenario, that was their genuine target, that's what they designed them to do and when marketing such a product they also have to use language that everyone understands.



EpicRandy said:

Console manufacturers create systems that offer capabilities but they cannot control how those would be used. They could if they issued license agreements that force devs to hit those targets but that would be too restrictive.

Fair enough for third party games.

But Hellblade 2 is a first party game. So Microsoft can't control the devs on their own payroll?



Conina said:
EpicRandy said:

Console manufacturers create systems that offer capabilities but they cannot control how those would be used. They could if they issued license agreements that force devs to hit those targets but that would be too restrictive.

Fair enough for third party games.

But Hellblade 2 is a first party game. So Microsoft can't control the devs on their own payroll?

That would be just as bad of a restriction as it would to any third party and in complete opposition to the latitude MS has given their studios over the last 6-7 years.

It's funny that we saw all the faux outrage when MS forced the support of the series S in their license agreement and how it infringed on studios' liberties and made their life harder, now we're supposed to support MS imposing draconian policies because some studios build games with other focus than 4k 60?

Let studios build what they want to build no matter the state of their ownership. They are the ones better suited to judge what's best for their title and what concession they're willing to take to best realize their vision without spending extra years of optimization to hit some arbitrary target imposed by another entity.

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 14 April 2024

The game does look absolutely stunning. For me personally, this feels like the game I've been waiting for since this generation began in terms of finally demonstrating a night and day jump over the previous one. Hellblade 1 was gorgeous on PS4/XBO/PC back in the day, but this really does make it look last gen.



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Pemalite said:

Anyone who expects any gaming console to have all games at 60fps or more hasn't been paying attention to the last 30+ years of history.

In a fixed hardware environment, you need to sacrifice the low-hanging fruit in order to increase visual fidelity... And the first cuts are always frame-rates and resolution.

And that will never change.

For me I'm just changing my gaming preferences.  I have been gaming for 30+ years and checked out PC for the first time last year, when thr good people of VG helped me build a rig.  After experiencing 80+ fps....  I just struggle going back to 30 fps.  Ignorance is bliss I suppose.  I'm not convinced people realize how responsive high fps is.  I swear my skills in RE4, Dead Space are through the roof at high fps.  I'm finishing those games far easily than I ever did before.  Ssme with Halo and most other games as well.  I assume latency is way up and that directly impacts accuracy of cross hairs?  I'm beating a dead horse but fps is mind blowing to me with the tangible benefits.  I built a second rig for my wife/kids so we can play coop online.  The 4070 is getting them 60 to 80, instead of 30.  They all notice the difference as well.  

Edit

I guess the short version is fps isn't simply a visual improvement.  It is a massive gameplay benefit.



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Chrkeller said:
Pemalite said:

Anyone who expects any gaming console to have all games at 60fps or more hasn't been paying attention to the last 30+ years of history.

In a fixed hardware environment, you need to sacrifice the low-hanging fruit in order to increase visual fidelity... And the first cuts are always frame-rates and resolution.

And that will never change.

For me I'm just changing my gaming preferences.  I have been gaming for 30+ years and checked out PC for the first time last year, when thr good people of VG helped me build a rig.  After experiencing 80+ fps....  I just struggle going back to 30 fps.  Ignorance is bliss I suppose.  I'm not convinced people realize how responsive high fps is.  I swear my skills in RE4, Dead Space are through the roof at high fps.  I'm finishing those games far easily than I ever did before.  Ssme with Halo and most other games as well.  I assume latency is way up and that directly impacts accuracy of cross hairs?  I'm beating a dead horse but fps is mind blowing to me with the tangible benefits.  I built a second rig for my wife/kids so we can play coop online.  The 4070 is getting them 60 to 80, instead of 30.  They all notice the difference as well.  

Edit

I guess the short version is fps isn't simply a visual improvement.  It is a massive gameplay benefit.

@bolded Still playing with gamepad, or using mouse+KB?



HoloDust said:
Chrkeller said:

For me I'm just changing my gaming preferences.  I have been gaming for 30+ years and checked out PC for the first time last year, when thr good people of VG helped me build a rig.  After experiencing 80+ fps....  I just struggle going back to 30 fps.  Ignorance is bliss I suppose.  I'm not convinced people realize how responsive high fps is.  I swear my skills in RE4, Dead Space are through the roof at high fps.  I'm finishing those games far easily than I ever did before.  Ssme with Halo and most other games as well.  I assume latency is way up and that directly impacts accuracy of cross hairs?  I'm beating a dead horse but fps is mind blowing to me with the tangible benefits.  I built a second rig for my wife/kids so we can play coop online.  The 4070 is getting them 60 to 80, instead of 30.  They all notice the difference as well.  

Edit

I guess the short version is fps isn't simply a visual improvement.  It is a massive gameplay benefit.

@bolded Still playing with gamepad, or using mouse+KB?

Gamepad.  Keyboard is on the list but I haven't made the jump.  I'm very ingrained with a gamepad.  



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Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Chrkeller said:
Pemalite said:

Anyone who expects any gaming console to have all games at 60fps or more hasn't been paying attention to the last 30+ years of history.

In a fixed hardware environment, you need to sacrifice the low-hanging fruit in order to increase visual fidelity... And the first cuts are always frame-rates and resolution.

And that will never change.

For me I'm just changing my gaming preferences.  I have been gaming for 30+ years and checked out PC for the first time last year, when thr good people of VG helped me build a rig.  After experiencing 80+ fps....  I just struggle going back to 30 fps.  Ignorance is bliss I suppose.  I'm not convinced people realize how responsive high fps is.  I swear my skills in RE4, Dead Space are through the roof at high fps.  I'm finishing those games far easily than I ever did before.  Ssme with Halo and most other games as well.  I assume latency is way up and that directly impacts accuracy of cross hairs?  I'm beating a dead horse but fps is mind blowing to me with the tangible benefits.  I built a second rig for my wife/kids so we can play coop online.  The 4070 is getting them 60 to 80, instead of 30.  They all notice the difference as well.  

Edit

I guess the short version is fps isn't simply a visual improvement.  It is a massive gameplay benefit.

Often games use double or triple buffering, the more buffers you have between input controls and output on the display, the larger the latency becomes.

Buffering can help "smooth" the visual output, but often comes at the side-effect of higher input latency.

A classic example of this is actually Halo 3 on Xbox 360, which used a double-buffer output in order to push for HDR lighting and to preserve a steady framerate... However the big fat caveat was that the controls felt "floaty" by comparison.

Normally on a twin-stick control pad it's not a big deal as the controls aren't very precise to start with and console gamers really don't know much better.

But there is a massive divide on that front as again... Buffering and latency is one of the "low hanging fruits" to garner more visual fidelity at the expense of performance.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Conina said:
EpicRandy said:

Console manufacturers create systems that offer capabilities but they cannot control how those would be used. They could if they issued license agreements that force devs to hit those targets but that would be too restrictive.

Fair enough for third party games.

But Hellblade 2 is a first party game. So Microsoft can't control the devs on their own payroll?

You guys really hate creative freedom huh? Microsoft literally used Ninja Theories 30fps demos as the flagship proof of Series X's power. 

Again what strikes me as weird is this logic as if 60fps has only just arrived in the console  space this gen and suddenly its all anyone can tolerate. We've had 60fps N64 games like Fzero, developers and players alike have always supported different technical ambitions for different games. For those of you who truly think 30fps is unplayable or sub 1440p is blurry mess you just have to take to a PC because nothing about the history of console gaming has suggested this to be the case.

As far a resolution goes, some games are softer than others but benefit in other areas, many HD era games were actual sub HD like COD4, a game which literally revolutionised the "HD" era. The average gamer (i.e the financial heart of the industry) is not pixel counting to decide whether they're happy with their box or not.  Every single game on PS5/Series X is boosting an output resolution that was not possible on PS4/Xbox One so they're all doing their job of taking advantage of 4k displays. A game like Hellblade is delivering visuals people have not experienced before on an Xbox console, it too is doing it's job even if not in the way some on here prefer.

Last edited by Otter - on 15 April 2024