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Forums - Nintendo - "Nintendo users only buy Nintendo games on Nintendo systems" How true was this?

In my case, it's 50/50. Which is still an insane ratio compared to what I had on PS4 (and now on PS5). In fact, for PS4 I have zero physical Sony games (The Last of Us and God of War 3 came with the bundle and I sold them afterwards) and for PS5 I only have Demon's Souls.



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Shtinamin_ said:
DonFerrari said:

I don't think I ever saw a bigger strawman than this.

Ok.
Honestly can you show me a AAA developer nowadays that didn't start out with an "indie-like" sized game? 

I do understand I said, "all" in my statement, and of course there are exceptions, but that doesn't mean we just ignore the indie developers.

Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

The strawman isn't about the "all" (but Sony and Microsoft entering console space and their internal developers didn't start Indie, and the studios they create weren't indie as well, but that is beside the point).

The strawman I'm saying is regard the discussion of why big devs don't support Switch, it is because of the type of game they make isn't really portable in a worth way and for them to make smaller (Indie scope let's say) titles isn't what they are aiming and also the sales they expect on Switch would be much lower than PS/Xbox so for them even if they started as Indie 40 or even 5 years ago it makes no difference.

Mar1217 said:
Chrkeller said:

Indie type games are cheaper to develop and easier to port.  I'm was talking about big budget AAA games.  It doesn't make sense to focus on a console that will offer a small percent of sales.  Just economics.

Ok, so just say it, you wanna move the goalpost because third parties isn't just about  AAA games, even you yourself value them more, this has no bearing on the fact the Switch has enjoyed a success among Indies and AA 3rd party games that it's console competitors do not on the same level. 

As for the AAA perspective, it is partially right in it's own accord that playing most 3rd party games on the Switch is already difficult due to the increasingly old hardware architecture that demands to restructure those games to be available on the platform to begin with. Yet, speaking of % of sales for these AAA games, there's precedent for the Switch versions of these games to surpass easily the Xbox sales, what do we about these ? Do we just say these games should not be ported on Xbox for the same reason you cited for the Switch ?

Xbox gets those games because those are already either being made for PS or PC and porting it to Xbox is quite easy (even if S can give them some extra work or issues) while porting to Switch takes a lot more time, money and even backlash from userbase because they are not satisfied with how the product turned.

And again even if you want to use Indies and A/AA titles to claim Switch have strong support or userbase buy a lot of 3rd party titles when comparing to PS/Xbox you would see average number of SW being 8,6 in Switch and PS4 at 2021 had 13.5 (perhaps it crawled to 15 by now?) and considering the (using most favorable to Switch ratio) 50% and 85% ratios for 3rd party on those systems you would get 4.3 vs 11 SW sold so it really shows that on average a PS owner would buy about 3x more 3rd party titles than Switch owner.

KrspaceT said:

All this talk of sales does make me want to point out we're assume that 3rd parties don't have a responsibility to make products that sell on successful platforms.

If there is a successful platform, shouldn't they be a part of it and figure out how to make it work for them?

Nope. Companies have a responsibility to maximize profit.

It doesn't matter if the platform they release on is big or small, successful or not. What matters to each individual developer is maximum profit, and in the shortest time possible, and that is why most of them go for the option of PS+Xbox+PC userbase and relegate Switch unless they are a smaller company that the scope of their work would run fine on switch so they may launch in everything or when they are so small that even porting to the other systems would take much time (or their market analysis shows that the type of game they want to make wouldn't sell well on those systems) then you may get an organic exclusive to Switch.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

IcaroRibeiro said:

It might be true for maybe 10% or less of the user base. The majority of Switch owners will have half of their collection to be third-party

I agree, and my most hours played game on the Switch is MH Rise, a third party game.



For me it’s not sure. I have tried so many new franchises that I would have never tried before if they never came to the Switch. I was absolutely obsessed (still am) with the console when it came out so I wanted to support as many third parties as possible. To my surprise, some of the first big support we got was from Bethesda with Doom and Wolfenstein. Tried them both, fell in love with both. Prior to these, I never played FPS. It’s still not my preferred genre but I enjoy it so much more now. The amount of hours I spent on Doom multiplayer, so much fun.

If a third party comes to the Switch even if it’s on other systems, I still prefer to get it on my Switch. I usually always play handheld and I always look to the performance as I’m playing on a handheld console vs home. So performance never really bothers me as much.

To this day, I play Overwatch and Fortnite almost every day on my Switch. I absolutely love this console and am very much stoked for the Switch 2. I am holding off on buying Persona 3 Reload with hopes it’ll come to the Switch 2. Plus I literally just bought a PS5 for Final Fantasy 16, FF7 Rebirth and Granblue Fantasy Relink. So I will be plenty busy in the days ahead.



[Switch Friend code: 3909-3991-4970]

[Xbox Live: JissuWolfe]

[PSN: Jissu]

Pinkie_pie said:

This is partly true. My nieces only have Kirby, Pokemon and Mario games for their Nintendo handhelds

If your nieces make up the majority of Nintendo owners, then you must have A LOT of family.



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burninmylight said:
Pinkie_pie said:

This is partly true. My nieces only have Kirby, Pokemon and Mario games for their Nintendo handhelds

If your nieces make up the majority of Nintendo owners, then you must have A LOT of family.

I don't get what you are trying to say



DonFerrari said:
Shtinamin_ said:

Ok.
Honestly can you show me a AAA developer nowadays that didn't start out with an "indie-like" sized game? 

I do understand I said, "all" in my statement, and of course there are exceptions, but that doesn't mean we just ignore the indie developers.

Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

The strawman isn't about the "all" (but Sony and Microsoft entering console space and their internal developers didn't start Indie, and the studios they create weren't indie as well, but that is beside the point).

The strawman I'm saying is regard the discussion of why big devs don't support Switch, it is because of the type of game they make isn't really portable in a worth way and for them to make smaller (Indie scope let's say) titles isn't what they are aiming and also the sales they expect on Switch would be much lower than PS/Xbox so for them even if they started as Indie 40 or even 5 years ago it makes no difference.

Strawman Fallacy: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

I was never referring to the big devs. I was specifically referring to why are we only focusing on big dev, there have been many indie developers on the Switch that have seen massive success.

Sony and Microsoft didn't make an indie game, they went for a whole system. And both companies were very well economically before they entered the gaming world.

Now focusing on all 3rd party devs.
Why would sales be lower on the Switch? The Switch has a user base of at least 134M in consoles and +330M Nintendo accounts. PC would easily be a good market to focus on, and the Switch (even though it is difficult to port) because the user base is massive. PS5 and Xbox Series have a user base combined at 75M in consoles and +243 Network users. Just looking at the numbers it seems very obvious which console I would port too.
Is there data to back up the claim that sales are less on a Switch when the game releases at the same time on multiple consoles?



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

I don't think it's that true. But it can be seen that way for many people. They love the IPs a lot so they will stick with the company.

With PS/Xbox I've been dropping off their first party over the years (depends on the IP/what it offers, main games, peripheral focused ones) as some of the studios/games they put out haven't been of interest to me as past gens. So I've sort of gone to Nintendo more but I still pick up third parties on the other consoles and their retro first party games as much as I am going for Nintendo first party modern and old at the right times.

I myself picked up Nintendo consoles for the consoles features/gimmicks. I pick up third and first party games. I picked up a Wii U (in 2018) for the gyro/dual screens wirelessly to compare to the DS, it's my favourite Nintendo console for it's concept, it limitations are there sure (and researching/thinking up improvements to rework dual screens as seen with phone casting to the tv, dual screen phones and more) but still enjoyable. The games are good though still even if some parts are hit and miss.

Switch's dock doesn't impress me I'm used to Wii U, PSP 2000 with a cable, Nomad/Neo Geo X and Pocket PCs/PDAs (Steam Deck of the 2000s, Sony and Samsung did some, more business focus but still, also GPD/Aya Neo doing them for years prior) that sync to a dock for a computer.

But the Joycons while yes the Lenovo Legion has separate controllers but the benefits of that for either is still intriguing and well the IPs and support on Switch is good enough for me to be happy owning one. Big, niche or usual IPs, ports and remakes I wouldn't expect.

I'm not nostalgic for them sure I had a Wii/DS among other PS/Xbox consoles but I've had more fun exploring many games I missed on those platforms. Some first party many third parties. 3DS (2020) for the 3D and to see how it was over the DS in dual screens and graphics/buttons, thickness. Switch in 2021+.

Same with PS Vita for the touchpad/touchscreen, gyro, remote play (wifi versus the local of Wii U with the Gamepad, I haven't power bank tried or car charger used the Wii U yet but I could if I wanted to), a PSP successor, what changed (even the media apps are better than PSP, like no need to convert videos to PSP just play them on Vita) I never got to experience it and filled in that gap of Sony systems as well as many Japanese games and got to complete many PS3/PSP IPs I hadn't experienced all in those series till now and still have a few to go.

Then again with N64 sure you hear all the time oh Nintendo and Rare titles. I actually don't care about the first party games (I know how could I, but the thing is people talk them up so much I don't want to play them and I tried Mario 64 DS and didn't like it I don't think the original will change anything of appealing to me that much, neither will many others.

I have Orcania and Starfox on 3DS so I'll try further, but while Starfox 64 3D is good, Orcania is confusing and will take some time because it's the first 3D Zelda compared to later 3D Zelda I'm used to.

I always have issues with console Zeldas but the DS ones had no issues after a while (not even because of the stylus either it's just I found it more accessible to play Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, even if buttons versus stylus with Rhythm Heaven does trip me up sometimes in Fever on Wii and Megamix on 3DS as used to the DS ones) but console ones I always get lost or struggle at some point in them doing something. Even the tutorial areas I can get stuck on what they want me to do. Great Plateau, or older Zeldas starting areas.

Twilight Princess it's the sumo parts with the Gorons I've tried so many times and gave up, Wind Waker I think I'm up to some part in the story after the first boss/dungeon and something in the middle of an empty island I don't remember)....

So after all that yes I care about the 3rd parties on N64. Many platformers, racing sim/arcade ones. Like OG Xbox as well same genres I've seen many exciting third parties on there. Also N64/Xbox I see a lot of underrated titles or games I never heard of but probably were hits I just never knew about them.

They appeal to me more. Nintendo and Rare titles are nice but sometimes many game mechanics or worlds are more compelling by third parties exclusive or on many platforms and the controller use/controller design is just worth experiencing. Glovers, Space Station Silicon Valley, Chameleon Twist are notable, same with Body Harvest, Mischief Makers, but I mean GT64, Beetle Adventure and many more are exciting to me of racing besides just Cruis'n entries on the console.

Same with GameCube Geist/Eternal Darkness seem compelling. Geist just as much as many PS3/360 shooters left behind I've picked up. Their mechanics were cool the games themselves were pretty standard but the mechanics themselves were worth it or COD, Gears or Crysis similar in some areas. But I do my research. Videos, articles, emulation, whatever the case.

With Switch I have first parties but I'm just as excited to get the Vita like third party experiences on it or controller gimmick games. I don't have any HD Rumble or gyro focused ones yet but will eventually. Well Another Code Recollection had 1 gyro puzzle and sure used Monster Hunter Rise bow with gyro but I don't have Splatoon 2 or others yet. I don't have an IR compatible game yet either, maybe Brain Age I may in the future.

I'll get to Fire Emblem on there then the 1 Fates game I have on 3DS or Warriors yes what a way to experience the Fire Emblem series but I know better than those games exist in the series so my expectations aren't set yet with the series.

Codename Steam is fine. Pikmin 2 is great (I played 1 on Wii new play control before 4 and enjoyed it), 4 was a disappointment.

Bayonetta 3 the reason besides Prime 4 I wanted a Switch was..... not great. Fine but disappointing. Bayonetta Origins fixes things I didn't like and recontextualises the game while being a prequel/different type of game and that's fine. Otherwise some racing games (Gear Club 2 enjoyed, Wreckfest), some JRPGs (Disagea 6, Shining Resonance Refrain).

I'm buying up Playlink titles for PS4 the mobile party games just for the novelty even.  Everybody 1-2 Switch does this years later but barely anyone talks about Playlink people do PSVR, Eye Toy, Move, Singstar, Buzz and more for some reason.

I've gone to dead Android App sources to see if they work and many have of other types of apps so maybe these ones will. If not well I have footage online to go off of like I already did research before buying them. I have wondered if any gaming/comedy youtubers will cover it like they did Eye Toy, Move, Kinect and more later but they haven't. Or even know about dead android sources but have iPhones and unlikely to jailbreak which is understandable. I have Android to sideload in cases like this not sketchy stuff.

So my experience has been well any old games like Pikmin 1+2 (Switch) or third parties in many cases on various consoles. I have the first parties for sure and they appeal to me but I mean with Sony/Xbox their first party IPs are fine but not really appealing to me of current gen so far at least.

I'd get maybe Forspoken/Aveum for the gameplay but I mean WRC 2023 with a car builder appeals to me. PSVR2 did but for Cosmic Smash (arcade/Dreamcast but reworked for VR and adds additional stuff). Very very little reason for me to get a PS5/Series X so stuck with PS4/Xbox One instead and their benefits still.

So while Switch may be the worst to play on I don't mind. I already enjoy having PS4/Xbox One versions to see how they perform. Some do very well honestly. Same with Ride 1 for 360, runs fine. Some later in a gen can be interesting versions to have. Do I think power is fine sure. But I mean unless they change gameplay in games to be exciting I don't care for current gen. Or hard drive gimmick uses too, dynamic design even (sigh Rift Apart I hoped but it's scripted too much, fair story/gameplay of Ratchet games but Crack in Time changed the series and they backtracked, sigh, would have liked to see it future those ideas but oh well I guess).

Last edited by SuntannedDuck2 - on 21 January 2024

Shtinamin_ said:
DonFerrari said:

The strawman isn't about the "all" (but Sony and Microsoft entering console space and their internal developers didn't start Indie, and the studios they create weren't indie as well, but that is beside the point).

The strawman I'm saying is regard the discussion of why big devs don't support Switch, it is because of the type of game they make isn't really portable in a worth way and for them to make smaller (Indie scope let's say) titles isn't what they are aiming and also the sales they expect on Switch would be much lower than PS/Xbox so for them even if they started as Indie 40 or even 5 years ago it makes no difference.

Strawman Fallacy: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

I was never referring to the big devs. I was specifically referring to why are we only focusing on big dev, there have been many indie developers on the Switch that have seen massive success.

Sony and Microsoft didn't make an indie game, they went for a whole system. And both companies were very well economically before they entered the gaming world.

Now focusing on all 3rd party devs.
Why would sales be lower on the Switch? The Switch has a user base of at least 134M in consoles and +330M Nintendo accounts. PC would easily be a good market to focus on, and the Switch (even though it is difficult to port) because the user base is massive. PS5 and Xbox Series have a user base combined at 75M in consoles and +243 Network users. Just looking at the numbers it seems very obvious which console I would port too.
Is there data to back up the claim that sales are less on a Switch when the game releases at the same time on multiple consoles?

Demographics.  I own a switch and wouldn't touch a third party title for it.  For first party titles I don't have a choice but to purchase on weak hardware.  But for third party I do have a choice.  On PC I get 1440p 60 fps....  I'm not going switch for 720p at 30 fps.  

More people doesn't equate to more sales.  That is a fallacy.  Demographics and strategy.

Let me ask a few questions.  Do you think switch is exceptionally lucrative for third parties and money is being left on the table?  If so, why would third party do as such?  Do you really think billion dollar publishers don't do their research and have business strategies?  



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

Shtinamin_ said:

Now focusing on all 3rd party devs.
Why would sales be lower on the Switch? The Switch has a user base of at least 134M in consoles and +330M Nintendo accounts. PC would easily be a good market to focus on, and the Switch (even though it is difficult to port) because the user base is massive. PS5 and Xbox Series have a user base combined at 75M in consoles and +243 Network users. Just looking at the numbers it seems very obvious which console I would port too.

Many gamers have a Switch AND another console (PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5, Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X).

All of these other consoles are a lot more powerful than a Switch, the PlayStation and Xbox versions look better.

So why should these gamers choose the Switch version over the PS- or Xbox-Version?

The only advantage for the Switch version would be the portability (playing "on the go"), but that's not important for everyone.