Predictably, you have nothing to say about the West Bank or the brain washing the vicious settlers have gone through. You can watch YouTube videos on that too if you like. The video you linked is very biased and doesn’t cover the West Bank nearly adequately.

Will you be glad when Palestine is wiped off the map completely and the West Bank is completely annexed even though Hamas isn't there?

Just war? Frees us all from Hamas? Your life isn't affected by Hamas.

Even if Israel eliminates all of Hamas, the way Israel has been operating makes it only a matter of time until the successor to Hamas is created. Plus there's a good chance that the next group of terrorists will make Hamas look like child's play.

I don't claim to have good long term solutions for this very complicated problem. Hamas needs to be destroyed, sure. But then? I don't know, honestly. I am rather pessimistic about a peaceful coexistance between the Palestinians and the Israeli. The latter withdrew from Gaza almost 20 years ago and the former did nothing but prepare for the eridication of the Jews. Is this going to be different without Hamas? One can only hope. But I am pessimistic.

Perhaps the cruel backwards theocracy in Iran needs to fall, before you can expect peaceful Palestinians (where I would include the West Bank as well). But that will be a much harder fight Israel alone can never hope to win.

Palestine is a very new nationality compared to the Jews and Judea. And since many Arabs live in Israel and many many more would like to, perhaps the best solution is to have Israel control the whole area (Israel plus Gaza plus West Bank) and the palestinian Arabs live as israeli Arabs in Israel. That would certainly be an upgrade to the palestinian people, to live in a free democratic society, instead of another failed state. The region has enough of those already. And it cannot be the other way around, given what we know about how jews are treated in Gaza vs how arabs are treated in Israel. I suppose this would maximise the wellbeing for all the people there.

Bye the bye, I am not happy with quite some things the jews are doing, sure. But in a practical, dark world, the ends do justify the means for me, when your enemies use much much worse.

Also, in comparison to my uncertainty above, I can be quite sure that all our hearts here are in the right place and we all do want the best for the most people in this area. In that spirit, what would be your solution?

I am not here to give solutions and neither are you.

If anyone is looking at what’s happening in Gaza right now and thinks this is going to end well or if it’s a solution for anything they’re sorely mistaken.

As I mentioned earlier, I happily concede for pro Israel voices that Israel war is “just” on Gaza so I can move on to discuss the West Bank, and again, predictably, the goal posts either always change or completely forgotten because what Israel is doing there is indefensible and inexcusable, which makes this conversation moot, because it’s just about dehumanising the victims even further. It's hard to discuss anything when biases are this palpable. 

Netanyahu is not as lucky on the West Bank as there are no terrorists for him to fund, not that he needs to be anyway, the spineless west seems to be happy to watch a group of people get slaughtered, displaced, and have their lands stolen in front of our very eyes. I am baffled how there are not more expansionists dictators out there testing Biden’s “red lines” yet. Hey, Trump might just give them that extra little push they need. 

My life is effected by muslim terror. I lived some years in Vienna. And I was in the city when those muslim lunatics shot at civilians at Schwedenplatz, inner city and other locations. And Hamas is a muslim terror organisation. Austria and Europe at large have a huge problem with muslim extremism. I am very glad I don't have to deal with muslim terror in the way Israel soldiers have to. But I am also very glad they do deal with it. Otherwise I would have to, sooner than later. Or worse, my kids will.

And I cannot agree with your sentiment of letting terror groups get away with atrocities and to allow them to get ever stronger. I mentioned my homecountry once, so let me mention it again: By the same logic you seem to use, it was unjust to bomb Nazi Germany to hell (much worse than anything Israel is doing to Gaza) because you would have had to expect something way worse as retaliation from the next generation. And sure, Hamas is much weaker than Nazi Germani was. But so is Israel. And the ideology behind Hamas is every bit as deplorable as the Nazi one. Quite similar in regards to the Jews in fact.

I don't claim that this is easy. My grandfatner fought for the Nazis. They would have killed him otherwise. No empty threats - they killed his deserting brother. First you need to win against these sorry people. Hamas and the Palestinians suffering under them. That has to be step one. Then you need to control them to a certain extent and for a certain time. You surely need to control their education. Don't know what should come next. I had some musings in my comment above. But Hamas needs to be destroyed. Deceisively. Israel even tried to leave them alone and Oct. 7th is what they got.

What do you think would happen if Israel actually went through on wiping out everyone? They would lose the support they have from the USA. The US will go to great lengths to aid and make excuses for Israel, yet killing 2 million people is not something the US will stand behind.

The US has consistently told Israel to keep the casualty numbers below the media threshold. Aka stop with the large massacres that make headlines. But they're fine continuing the ethnic cleansing and starvation, slow deaths, less media attention.

The public is turning more on Israel, but not those that hold the power to do anything. They do exactly what you are doing, arguing it's not a genocide because Israel is not directly killing millions.


It is not Hamas' declared goal to kill all the jews and destroy Israel and the USA. Read their new charter, Hamas clearly states their fight is with the Zionist oppression. Stop spreading misinformation, stop living in the past.

The Palestine Liberation Organization has accepted the concept of a two-state solution since the 1982 Arab Summit. In 2017, Hamas announced their revised charter, which claims to accept the idea of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, but without recognising the statehood of Israel.

Hamas leaders have emphasized they do not recognize Israel, but indicate they "have a de facto acceptance of its presence".

Besides that, Hamas is a product from the occupation, initially supported by Netanyahu to drive a wedge between the Fatah 'controlled' West Bank and Gaza, to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state.

Hamas is also not the same as Isis. Hamas is a resistance group next to running the government. The armed wing has resorted to terror tactics to get heard, since all peaceful / diplomatic attempts between 2015 and now have only led to more death and destruction in Gaza by Israel. The march of return in 2018/2019 proved Israel is not interested in peace.


UNWRA is also not complicit, provide some evidence for such outrageous and dangerous claims. More misinformation. Investigations have only been able to not fully clear 9 workers out of 13,000 UNWRA workers in Gaza alone. And that's based on IDF 'evidence' testimonies no doubt extracted under torture.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148821
Also Israel vets all employees of UNWRA, UNWRA submits their records to Israel on a regular basis. Israel monitors everyone in Gaza and all they could come up with is some reasonable doubt for 9 workers, and nothing on the rest of the 13,000 workers.

I feel sorry for the people in Israel, indoctrinated to hate and fear all Arabs. Continuously living in fear, being told every day that everyone is out to kill them. What do you think will happen to the people of Israel when they find out the truth of what's been happening. Some day they'll learn what their terror government has been doing for all these decades.

Likud itself was derived from terrorist militias, the Irgun and Lehi. The terrorist Irgun militia founded the Herut party which merged with Likud in 1977, which started the phrase, from the river to the sea. It's in the Likud charter. "their 1977 election manifesto which stated "Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." This slogan was repeated by Menachem Begin."
Hamas was founded 10 years later and took the Likud slogan over and changed it to From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.

Likud has always been against a 2-state solution and Netanyahu has done everything to prevent the possibility of a 2-state solution since his first term in 1996, undermining the Oslo accords in every way.



These 'wars' have only made it less safe for people in Israel, as well as for Jews around the world, since Zionists keep dragging all Jews in it, by conflating anti-Israel politics criticism with anti-semitism. Fact is Judaism doesn't support Neo-Zionism. It's not only against international law, it's also against Jewish religious beliefs. Hence there are Jewish resistance groups all over the world fighting against the current genocide.

Israel is on a path of self destruction with these 'wars' that Netanyahu wants to become permanent wars. A lot of people have already left the country (figures of over half a million are being mentioned in articles) draining the tech sector Israel's economy relies on. BDS movement is having an effect on top of that. Tourism is dead, immigration which Israel relies on is down. The economy is suffering while the country further shifts to the ultra right. Moderate voices are being snuffed out, more laws of repression and oppression are being passed in the Knesset.

Without US support the country will collapse, Israel is turning into a failed state.
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-06-13/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israel-must-oust-its-failed-government-before-it-sinks-into-the-moral-abyss/00000190-1285-d621-abfa-5bb5e9840000

What could have been a beautiful country has turned into the ugliest genocidal ethnic cleansing campaigns in modern history. All because of Neo-zionist delusions that 'greater Israel' was promised to them by God, and it's their religious duty to settle the land and drive out the Arabs. Just listen to Daniella Weiss, founder of Nachala, an Israeli settler organization.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/20/middleeast/israel-gaza-settlers-daniella-weiss/index.html



The time for hasbara is over, you can't turn this conflict upside down anymore. It's clear who the aggressors are, who will not stop harassing and driving people off their land, regularly killing them while taking more land. There are now some 700,000 illegal settlers in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
As of January 2023, there were at least 196 Israeli outposts in the West Bank that were not authorized by the Israeli government. In addition to the outposts, there were over 450,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank, and 220,000 in East Jerusalem.

How many illegal Palestinian settlements are there in Israel? Oh, none. It is crystal clear which side is not interested in peace, only in the slow removal of people from their land to keep expanding Israel at any cost. Which can only be done by dehumanizing Palestinians and Arabs from birth to keep the public support.

Break free of the indoctrination and propaganda, start with the idea of universal human rights. A Palestinian life is equal to that of an Israeli life. Then look at what has been happening since the 1920s from that point of view of equality. Before Zionist immigration started Jews and Arabs were living together. It is possible to get there again, but Neo-Zionism has no place in the modern world.


This war can't be won, the longer it goes on the bigger the repercussions will be in the future. Both politically, financially and from new resistance groups being created. Peace can't thrive under oppression and apartheid.

It's always Hamas, Hamas, Hamas. The product of Israel's occupation, supported by Netanyahu. And let's assume Israel can stomp out Hamas, like the US managed to get rid of Saddam Hussein (who was supported by the US in a similar way as Netanyahu used Hamas). Did it 'fix' Iraq?

Israel only withdrew their forces from Gaza, the blockaded never lifted. Gazans were never allowed to go out on the sea, no freedom of movement to the West Bank or other places, Israel kept control (or tried their hardest to) over what went in and out of Gaza. Plus Netanyahu used Hamas to prevent a unified Palestinian voice, encouraging the radical Hamas against Fatah which was working towards a 2-state solution.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Palestine is indeed a very new nationality, but the people have lived there since ancient times. Nations were forced upon Arabs in the aftermath of WW1 when UK and France divided up the ME into forced nation states. Which is the reason why so many cope with ongoing civil wars. Different sides trying to force ethnocentric nation states inside arbitrary country borders, same thing for Israel.

Zionism is a very new 'nationality' as well, created in 1897, Revisionist Zionism created in 1925, The two main principles of Revisionist Zionism, established by Ze'ev Jabotinksy in 1925 as a more militaristic Zionist approach, were the territorial integrity of a Jewish homeland over all of British mandate Palestine and the immediate declaration of the Jewish right to political sovereignty.


The best solution is one country with equal rights for all. Not the sorry excuse for democracy Israel currently has.
https://www.btselem.org/publications/202210_not_a_vibrant_democracy_this_is_apartheid

Palestinian citizens limited in exercising the right to vote and run for office

The roughly 1.7 million Palestinians with Israeli citizenship status can, like Jewish citizens, take part in the general elections. They can vote for their candidates, start their own parties or join existing ones. However, their political participation has been cast as illegitimate since the very inception of the state, along with attempts to restrict or deny them true political representation.

There is no shortage of examples illustrating the widespread view in Israel that Palestinians’ political participation should be monitored, controlled and curtailed, and that their right to vote and run for office should be drained of any meaning. The Military Rule imposed on Palestinian citizens until 1966 treated this entire population as enemies, severely restricting their political activity.

What end justifies the killing, starvation and destruction of an entire population? Nothing excuses genocide, that's why the genocide conventions were adopted after WW2. Never again. But now it's happening live for all to see in Gaza and the West Bank.

This pointless battle to get rid of Hamas is only making it much harder for a peaceful solution. Entire generations have been indoctrinated to hatred on both sides. That takes generations of undoing. This whole conflict is largely driven by the trauma of the Holocaust, Jews in Israel are never allowed to heal from that horrific wound. Keep it fresh, except Neo-Zionists managed to shift the blame from Nazis onto Arabs to keep the trauma going.

The best way forward now is a 2-state solution with the intent of unification in the future. Both states will need to adopt a school curriculum of tolerance and teaching each other's history. As well as mandatory Hebrew and Arabic teaching at school. Understanding and communication leads to peace. Isolation and dehumanization only leads to further wars.

The real history is Europe caused this ongoing conflict. That can be a common place to start the healing process from. The current longstanding 'war' was inflicted on the region by the actions of the UK in the aftermath of WW1 after a century of rising anti-semitism in Europe. Then cemented by Nazi Germany's holocaust. Jews and Arabs share a common history, use that as a starting place for mutual understanding of how we got to where we are today.

Again, 'defeating' Hamas is not going to bring anyone any closer to peace. You can't kill the idea of resistance, only the people that resist. But you'll have to kill more and more of them until there's no one left to kill, as each death only further strengthens the drive to resist.

Hamas hasn't claimed responsibility for a single terrorist attack in Europe. They seem to be operating only at a very local level.

My post was very short and it's still up there, so it's a mystery how you derive from it that I am in favor of letting terrorists get away with atrocities. Your analogy to World War II doesn't work, because of the four major allies (UK, USA, France and Soviet Union), three of them had the goal to allow the people of Germany and Austria live in self-determination in a rebuilt democracy. Israel has no such goal with Palestinians; they aren't even as "gentle" as the Soviet Union who were aiming for pseudo-democracies that ultimately they'd have great influence over. Israel's goal is to seize and oppress, they have no other plan to speak of. That's because Israel's ideology closely resembles the ideology of the Nazis: In their worldview there are subhumans that need to be either displaced or killed, hence why what's happening in the West Bank makes sense.

This ideology is why this isn't a just war in Gaza. There are way too many people who believe that Israel and Gaza have clearly defined roles of good vs. evil like it is the case in the Ukraine conflict, but in the Middle East it's evil vs. evil. Two factions that are heavily driven by religious beliefs and indoctrination.

Back to the war grind.

Just as with Gaza, 'defeating' Hezbollah isn't going to make Israel safe. Israel is only turning more people against them and for what? To keep the genocide in Gaza going. The offensive in the North hasn't solved the displacement, only caused more casualties on both sides while making Lebanon only more unstable and thus further ground for terrorist groups to thrive.

The only interests served here are Netanyahu's and those vying for greater Israel. These are the lengths Israel has to go through to support continuous expansion, into the West Bank, into Lebanon, into Syria. (Where Israel is currently building on the blue line)

Dozens killed as Israeli military carries out several attacks in Lebanon

As we have been reporting, the Israeli military has carried out several deadly raids on Lebanon over the past day.

The Lebanon News Agency, citing Lebanon’s Ministry of Health, lists the following attacks:

Five paramedics killed in Israeli attack on southern Lebanon: Report

As we have been reporting, the Israeli military has carried out several deadly raids on Lebanon over the past day, including a strike on a civil defence centre in the village of Arabsalim in the Nabatieh district, southern Lebanon.

The Lebanon News Agency (NNA), citing Lebanon’s Health Ministry, earlier reported that six people had been killed in that attack, including four paramedics.

The NNA has now updated that information, stating that five of the six killed were paramedics.

Israeli warplanes bomb southern Beirut’s Burj al-Barajneh area: Report

A correspondent for the Lebanon News Agency (NNA) is reporting that Israeli warplanes have fired two missiles at the Burj al-Barajneh neighbourhood in the southern suburbs of Beirut.

_{Flames erupt after an Israeli air attack on Tayouneh, Beirut on Friday}

At least 15 rescuers killed in Israeli attack on southern Lebanon

The number of civil defence workers killed in yesterday’s Israeli attack on Lebanon’s Baalbek Regional Civil Defence Centre in the Douris village, at the entrance to the city of Baalbek, has risen to 15, according to a local official.

Baalbek-Hermel Governor Bashir Khodr said on X that 10 of the bodies were identified.

“The remaining five were recovered in pieces, and DNA tests will be conducted to determine their identities,” he said.

Two Israeli air strikes hit Hadath area in Beirut’s southern suburbs

The first air strike has been launched by an Israeli drone, and it has been followed by an air strike from a warplane, according to our colleagues at Al Jazeera Arabic. According to Lebanon’s National News Agency, the attacks were carried out near schools.