JuliusHackebeil said:
I don't claim to have good long term solutions for this very complicated problem. Hamas needs to be destroyed, sure. But then? I don't know, honestly. I am rather pessimistic about a peaceful coexistance between the Palestinians and the Israeli. The latter withdrew from Gaza almost 20 years ago and the former did nothing but prepare for the eridication of the Jews. Is this going to be different without Hamas? One can only hope. But I am pessimistic. Perhaps the cruel backwards theocracy in Iran needs to fall, before you can expect peaceful Palestinians (where I would include the West Bank as well). But that will be a much harder fight Israel alone can never hope to win. Palestine is a very new nationality compared to the Jews and Judea. And since many Arabs live in Israel and many many more would like to, perhaps the best solution is to have Israel control the whole area (Israel plus Gaza plus West Bank) and the palestinian Arabs live as israeli Arabs in Israel. That would certainly be an upgrade to the palestinian people, to live in a free democratic society, instead of another failed state. The region has enough of those already. And it cannot be the other way around, given what we know about how jews are treated in Gaza vs how arabs are treated in Israel. I suppose this would maximise the wellbeing for all the people there. Bye the bye, I am not happy with quite some things the jews are doing, sure. But in a practical, dark world, the ends do justify the means for me, when your enemies use much much worse. Also, in comparison to my uncertainty above, I can be quite sure that all our hearts here are in the right place and we all do want the best for the most people in this area. In that spirit, what would be your solution? |
It's always Hamas, Hamas, Hamas. The product of Israel's occupation, supported by Netanyahu. And let's assume Israel can stomp out Hamas, like the US managed to get rid of Saddam Hussein (who was supported by the US in a similar way as Netanyahu used Hamas). Did it 'fix' Iraq?
Israel only withdrew their forces from Gaza, the blockaded never lifted. Gazans were never allowed to go out on the sea, no freedom of movement to the West Bank or other places, Israel kept control (or tried their hardest to) over what went in and out of Gaza. Plus Netanyahu used Hamas to prevent a unified Palestinian voice, encouraging the radical Hamas against Fatah which was working towards a 2-state solution.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Palestine is indeed a very new nationality, but the people have lived there since ancient times. Nations were forced upon Arabs in the aftermath of WW1 when UK and France divided up the ME into forced nation states. Which is the reason why so many cope with ongoing civil wars. Different sides trying to force ethnocentric nation states inside arbitrary country borders, same thing for Israel.
Zionism is a very new 'nationality' as well, created in 1897, Revisionist Zionism created in 1925, The two main principles of Revisionist Zionism, established by Ze'ev Jabotinksy in 1925 as a more militaristic Zionist approach, were the territorial integrity of a Jewish homeland over all of British mandate Palestine and the immediate declaration of the Jewish right to political sovereignty.
The best solution is one country with equal rights for all. Not the sorry excuse for democracy Israel currently has.
https://www.btselem.org/publications/202210_not_a_vibrant_democracy_this_is_apartheid
Palestinian citizens limited in exercising the right to vote and run for office
The roughly 1.7 million Palestinians with Israeli citizenship status can, like Jewish citizens, take part in the general elections. They can vote for their candidates, start their own parties or join existing ones. However, their political participation has been cast as illegitimate since the very inception of the state, along with attempts to restrict or deny them true political representation.
There is no shortage of examples illustrating the widespread view in Israel that Palestinians’ political participation should be monitored, controlled and curtailed, and that their right to vote and run for office should be drained of any meaning. The Military Rule imposed on Palestinian citizens until 1966 treated this entire population as enemies, severely restricting their political activity.
What end justifies the killing, starvation and destruction of an entire population? Nothing excuses genocide, that's why the genocide conventions were adopted after WW2. Never again. But now it's happening live for all to see in Gaza and the West Bank.
This pointless battle to get rid of Hamas is only making it much harder for a peaceful solution. Entire generations have been indoctrinated to hatred on both sides. That takes generations of undoing. This whole conflict is largely driven by the trauma of the Holocaust, Jews in Israel are never allowed to heal from that horrific wound. Keep it fresh, except Neo-Zionists managed to shift the blame from Nazis onto Arabs to keep the trauma going.
The best way forward now is a 2-state solution with the intent of unification in the future. Both states will need to adopt a school curriculum of tolerance and teaching each other's history. As well as mandatory Hebrew and Arabic teaching at school. Understanding and communication leads to peace. Isolation and dehumanization only leads to further wars.
The real history is Europe caused this ongoing conflict. That can be a common place to start the healing process from. The current longstanding 'war' was inflicted on the region by the actions of the UK in the aftermath of WW1 after a century of rising anti-semitism in Europe. Then cemented by Nazi Germany's holocaust. Jews and Arabs share a common history, use that as a starting place for mutual understanding of how we got to where we are today.
Again, 'defeating' Hamas is not going to bring anyone any closer to peace. You can't kill the idea of resistance, only the people that resist. But you'll have to kill more and more of them until there's no one left to kill, as each death only further strengthens the drive to resist.
