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Forums - Sales Discussion - Could the PS5 surpass Nintendo Wii sales in Japan?

It may or it may not, but does it really matter as it will be a hollow victory with all the exports to China.



 

 

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I don't think it will but it has a good chance of surpassing the PlayStation 3.

Still, its a bit wild with how much the outlook has changed for the PlayStation 5 in Japan lol. Those 2021 Media Create/Famitsu were something else, many thought the PS5 would be lucky to surpass the WiiU's lifetime, and software releases outside of MH/DQ/FF would fail to reach 100K unit sales.



archbrix said:

Except for Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter World, what does Playstation have left in the future that Japan really cares about?  And I believe that at least one of those 2 will be on Switch 2 as well.  So, even accounting for all of the exports I can only entertain the PS5 crossing the 10m mark in Japan at some point, and even then, not by much in my opinion.  And there's a pretty large gap between 10m+ and almost 13m.

I wouldn't discount the Ghost sequel in terms of moving hardware. The original sold over 1M+ lifetime in Japan. 



firebush03 said:
Shtinamin_ said:

Lets take a look at past PS consoles to get an idea how well PS is received in Japan.
PS5 is at 4.75M.
PS4 sold at 9.66M
PS3 sold at 10.47M.
PS2 sold at 23.18M.
PS1 sold at 21.59M.

Now I want to look at the percentage of each (comes from # sold in Japan/# sold worldwide).
PS5: 9.71%
PS4: 8.24%
PS3: 11.98%
PS2: 14.61%
PS1: 21.06%

Since Sony's direction to apply Western ideals, they have lost the appeal of their home country. The PS5 is in it's 4th year of selling, and the PS6 is rumor for 2027 (could be pushed to 2028). PS5 has about (Im gonna go with the later year for a basis of the maximum) 5 years. This year so far the PS5 has sold ~2.3M. If we assume PS5 will sell at least this well for the next 4 years thats an increase of 9.2M. But the PS5 won't be able to do forever, there is always a peak year and slowly decreases in sales. Let's say in in 2 years is the peak, and after it's peak year it sells -10% to 20% (based on Switch after peak years) compared to the year before. And PS4 is still selling, and probably will for another year, so lets say PS5 will sell 5 years into PS6 life. But once PS6 releases the drop will be -20% to -30% of a drop (maybe more).

I think the PS5 worldwide will sell 124M

Ok, so we have an idea. Loose idea, but an idea.

PS5 is at 4.75M + 2.3M (2024) + 2.3M (2025) + 2.07M (2026) + 1.86M (2027) + 1.49M (2028 PS6 releases) + 1.19M (2029) + 0.95M (2030) + 0.76M (2031) + 0.61M (2032) + 0.49M (2033 sold out) = 18.77M

18.77/124 = 15.13%
18.77M will be it's maximum if all goes well. If PS5 has already reached it's peak then it will reach 13.01M. 10.49%

Yes, PS5 will surpass the Wii (12.77M) just barely but it will. Do I want it to no, but I'm trying to be realistic.

The data is great: The conclusion is optimistic. Once Switch successor hits the market, PlayStation will hit a hard wall in terms of Japanese sales figures. For that, I believe your 2024/2025/2026/… estimates need be lowered 0.5-1.0mil. Furthermore, once PS6 drops, PS5 sales figures will fall off a cliff: 2029/2030/2031/2032/2033 need be adjusted with a “max sales ceiling” of 0.4mil for any one of those years. It’s not out of the realm of possibility to see PS5 have legs lasting into its successors lifecycle…but something would need to go wrong with the PS6 in order for this to happen (eg PS6 is overpriced like the PS3, there need be a supply shock similar to with the PS5, etc).

In all, I think your estimate would more appropriately be knocked down to around 7-8mil sales remaining in Japan, which really leaves the initial question unanswered as to whether PS5 could surpass the Wii in Japan.

XtremeBG said:
firebush03 said:

The data is great: The conclusion is optimistic. Once Switch successor hits the market, PlayStation will hit a hard wall in terms of Japanese sales figures. For that, I believe your 2024/2025/2026/… estimates need be lowered 0.5-1.0mil. Furthermore, once PS6 drops, PS5 sales figures will fall off a cliff: 2029/2030/2031/2032/2033 need be adjusted with a “max sales ceiling” of 0.4mil for any one of those years. It’s not out of the realm of possibility to see PS5 have legs lasting into its successors lifecycle…but something would need to go wrong with the PS6 in order for this to happen (eg PS6 is overpriced like the PS3, there need be a supply shock similar to with the PS5, etc).

In all, I think your estimate would more appropriately be knocked down to around 7-8mil sales remaining in Japan, which really leaves the initial question unanswered as to whether PS5 could surpass the Wii in Japan.

I agree with both of your statements. What the PS5 will sell in Japan, have to be now till the Switch successor launches there, cuz it will eat big chunk of those PS5 sales. Just like I said before (when the PS5/XBSX launched and had stock issues) the console sales overlap when there is competition. Sure Switch isn't directly competitor to PS or Xbox, but still it has taken some of their sales when they haven't been available freely everywhere. The same of course goes for the opposite. PS5/Xbox too eat up some of the potential Switch sales. If there were no PS/Xbox Switch would have break 150M by now. And the opposite, if there were no Switch PS4 decline would be steeper and would've sold more units. PS5, Xbox too. In Japan xbox is not factor, but the PS5 surely has taken some of the Switch sales and vice versa. Worldwide of course PS5 will fall of a cliff once PS6 launches, so better be selling now when it's the major Sony's console. But there is still much time. It has around 5 years more where it's the main focus for both Sony, and customers.

Zippy6 said:
firebush03 said:

The data is great: The conclusion is optimistic. Once Switch successor hits the market, PlayStation will hit a hard wall in terms of Japanese sales figures

I disagree. The year Switch released was PlayStation 4's strongest year in Japan. Nintendo and Sony consoles do not harm each others sales substantially even in Japan.

(I included these quotes above because they pertain to this whole topic)
Oh my, I totally forgot about Nintendo's next console. Whoops haha.
Hmmm. Ok. I need to do some thought and research
Mar 2016-Feb 2017 PS4 sold just below 2.12M in Japan (2,117,036)
The Switch released and from Mar 2017-Feb 2018 PS4 sold 2.02M (2,020,471)

Oh, hmmm, I thought that would cause a bigger drop since it was competing with the Switch. I did notice that 2018 Jan and Feb sold way better than 2017 Jan and Feb, what game came out to boost the sales. I'm seeing Destiny 2 and Resident Evil 7 for December (more Western related, hence not a big spike for December 2017). Monster Hunter World, Street Fighter V, God of War, and Red Dead Redemption 2 for January (2 Japanese related games, and 2 BIG Western games). February had Metal Gear Survive (A Japanese-related game). Ok I see why there was a bigger spike in Jan and Feb now, they had better Japanese games than 2017 Jan & Feb, Kingdom Heart HD 2.8 Cloud Version, Double Dragon IV, & small indie-like developers. Lets check the next year.

Mar 2018-Feb 2019 for PS4 sold 1.43M (1,432,677)
Sorry for the weird comparison months, I just wanted to put Switch and PS4 head-to-head to see if there was any direct difference between the years.

Okay looking at this I see that the PS4 had a decline of -5%, then a decline of -30%. So, I think PS4 took a hit once Switch became popular.
Now lets take a look at PS4 the year before PS5, and the year of PS5
Nov 2019-Oct 2020 PS4 sold just below 0.78M (779,695)
Nov 2020-Oct 2021 PS4 sold just below 0.15M (148,857)
Once PS5 entered the ring PS4 took a -80.7% decline, ouch.

Alright I understand why you said what you said @firebush03 .

It looks somewhat that Nintendo does compete with Sony in Japan. (Not related to this forum, but it makes sense, Sony is focusing on America and Europe, while Nintendo is focusing on America and Japan, or so it seems).

Ok I will recalibrate my guestimates. Once Nintendo's next console releases PS5 will drop ~-30%, and from then on will drop ~-10% to -20% (I'll stick with -10% for optimistic-ness). Then once the PS6 launches we should see something like the -80% drop (I'll stick with -80%) and from then on will drop -30% with each succession. For trend on how long it will sell into the PS6 life I will use info regarding PS3 and PS4 (PS2 was a beast haha), PS3 was no longer selling in Japan after Dec 2017, so 4 years into the PS4 life. PS4 is still selling in Japan to this day, so 3 years into the PS5 life. I'll make the assumption of 4 years for the PS5 selling into the PS6 life.:

PS5 is at 4.75M + 2.3M (2024, Rumored release date of the next Nintendo Console) + 1.61M (2025) + 1.30M (2026) + 1.17M (2027) + 1.05M (2028 rumored PS6 release date) + 0.21M (2029) + 0.15M (2030) + 0.10M (2031) + 0.07M (2032) = 12.71M

If Sony decides to accept Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, and Metal Gear (either remakes, ports, or new additions to those series) in the latter years of the PS5 then we should see some increased console selling, like Jan and Feb of 2018.

So if the 12.71M estimate comes to fruition (based on optimism and realistic past data) then...
NO the PS5 will not overcome the Wii's total of 12.77M. Even being an optimist with -10% and -30% estimations.

Cobretti2 said:

It may or it may not, but does it really matter as it will be a hollow victory with all the exports to China.

Well, I personally don't think it matters if they export to China because they are still "sold" in Japan. (I might be correct that they are sold in Japan and then exported, thats just what I understand from the exporting conversation).



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

Shtinamin_ said:
firebush03 said:

The data is great: The conclusion is optimistic. Once Switch successor hits the market, PlayStation will hit a hard wall in terms of Japanese sales figures. For that, I believe your 2024/2025/2026/… estimates need be lowered 0.5-1.0mil. Furthermore, once PS6 drops, PS5 sales figures will fall off a cliff: 2029/2030/2031/2032/2033 need be adjusted with a “max sales ceiling” of 0.4mil for any one of those years. It’s not out of the realm of possibility to see PS5 have legs lasting into its successors lifecycle…but something would need to go wrong with the PS6 in order for this to happen (eg PS6 is overpriced like the PS3, there need be a supply shock similar to with the PS5, etc).

In all, I think your estimate would more appropriately be knocked down to around 7-8mil sales remaining in Japan, which really leaves the initial question unanswered as to whether PS5 could surpass the Wii in Japan.

XtremeBG said:

I agree with both of your statements. What the PS5 will sell in Japan, have to be now till the Switch successor launches there, cuz it will eat big chunk of those PS5 sales. Just like I said before (when the PS5/XBSX launched and had stock issues) the console sales overlap when there is competition. Sure Switch isn't directly competitor to PS or Xbox, but still it has taken some of their sales when they haven't been available freely everywhere. The same of course goes for the opposite. PS5/Xbox too eat up some of the potential Switch sales. If there were no PS/Xbox Switch would have break 150M by now. And the opposite, if there were no Switch PS4 decline would be steeper and would've sold more units. PS5, Xbox too. In Japan xbox is not factor, but the PS5 surely has taken some of the Switch sales and vice versa. Worldwide of course PS5 will fall of a cliff once PS6 launches, so better be selling now when it's the major Sony's console. But there is still much time. It has around 5 years more where it's the main focus for both Sony, and customers.

Zippy6 said:

I disagree. The year Switch released was PlayStation 4's strongest year in Japan. Nintendo and Sony consoles do not harm each others sales substantially even in Japan.

(I included these quotes above because they pertain to this whole topic)
Oh my, I totally forgot about Nintendo's next console. Whoops haha.
Hmmm. Ok. I need to do some thought and research
Mar 2016-Feb 2017 PS4 sold just below 2.12M in Japan (2,117,036)
The Switch released and from Mar 2017-Feb 2018 PS4 sold 2.02M (2,020,471)

Oh, hmmm, I thought that would cause a bigger drop since it was competing with the Switch. I did notice that 2018 Jan and Feb sold way better than 2017 Jan and Feb, what game came out to boost the sales. I'm seeing Destiny 2 and Resident Evil 7 for December (more Western related, hence not a big spike for December 2017). Monster Hunter World, Street Fighter V, God of War, and Red Dead Redemption 2 for January (2 Japanese related games, and 2 BIG Western games). February had Metal Gear Survive (A Japanese-related game). Ok I see why there was a bigger spike in Jan and Feb now, they had better Japanese games than 2017 Jan & Feb, Kingdom Heart HD 2.8 Cloud Version, Double Dragon IV, & small indie-like developers. Lets check the next year.

Mar 2018-Feb 2019 for PS4 sold 1.43M (1,432,677)
Sorry for the weird comparison months, I just wanted to put Switch and PS4 head-to-head to see if there was any direct difference between the years.

Okay looking at this I see that the PS4 had a decline of -5%, then a decline of -30%. So, I think PS4 took a hit once Switch became popular.
Now lets take a look at PS4 the year before PS5, and the year of PS5
Nov 2019-Oct 2020 PS4 sold just below 0.78M (779,695)
Nov 2020-Oct 2021 PS4 sold just below 0.15M (148,857)
Once PS5 entered the ring PS4 took a -80.7% decline, ouch.

Alright I understand why you said what you said @firebush03 .

It looks somewhat that Nintendo does compete with Sony in Japan. (Not related to this forum, but it makes sense, Sony is focusing on America and Europe, while Nintendo is focusing on America and Japan, or so it seems).

Ok I will recalibrate my guestimates. Once Nintendo's next console releases PS5 will drop ~-30%, and from then on will drop ~-10% to -20% (I'll stick with -10% for optimistic-ness). Then once the PS6 launches we should see something like the -80% drop (I'll stick with -80%) and from then on will drop -30% with each succession. For trend on how long it will sell into the PS6 life I will use info regarding PS3 and PS4 (PS2 was a beast haha), PS3 was no longer selling in Japan after Dec 2017, so 4 years into the PS4 life. PS4 is still selling in Japan to this day, so 3 years into the PS5 life. I'll make the assumption of 4 years for the PS5 selling into the PS6 life.:

PS5 is at 4.75M + 2.3M (2024, Rumored release date of the next Nintendo Console) + 1.61M (2025) + 1.30M (2026) + 1.17M (2027) + 1.05M (2028 rumored PS6 release date) + 0.21M (2029) + 0.15M (2030) + 0.10M (2031) + 0.07M (2032) = 12.71M

If Sony decides to accept Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, and Metal Gear (either remakes, ports, or new additions to those series) in the latter years of the PS5 then we should see some increased console selling, like Jan and Feb of 2018.

So if the 12.71M estimate comes to fruition (based on optimism and realistic past data) then...
NO the PS5 will not overcome the Wii's total of 12.77M. Even being an optimist with -10% and -30% estimations.

Cobretti2 said:

It may or it may not, but does it really matter as it will be a hollow victory with all the exports to China.

Well, I personally don't think it matters if they export to China because they are still "sold" in Japan. (I might be correct that they are sold in Japan and then exported, thats just what I understand from the exporting conversation).

If we were to worry about consoles exports for this (that we can't be totally sure of the amount) we would need to discount a lot of sales from USA that comes to South America (and other places) to feed grey market because it is a lot cheaper to buy from grey market than official in some markets (like in Brazil, if you look for PS4 launch it was 4k BRL but grey market it was under 2k) so for sure there is a good number of consoles listed as sold in USA (EU, UK and Japan as well probably) but actually gone to other countries (others).



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Possible, but highly unlikely. We've already had two generations straight where PlayStation failed to reach the 11M mark. They weren't massively short of the Wii's 12.7M, which is why it's not entirely out of the question, but the PS5 is going to have to outperform the PS3 & PS4 and I'm not sure how that could happen aside from a protracted generation, some steep price cuts, and some more games appealing to Japanese gamers.



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In accordance to the VGC forum rules, §8.5, I hereby exercise my right to demand to be left alone regarding the subject of the effects of the pandemic on video game sales (i.e., "COVID bump").

I too agree PS5 will have hard time passing the 10M mark, it may have another great year in Japan next year, however with Switch 2 launching soon there I think it will take the highligh from it and PS will go back to selling 1M to 1.5M a year. Of course I would love to be wrong and PS5 reaching even the 20M but I highly doubt that as of how the things look like and the data we have for the last decade there.



My sales comparison threads:

Ultimate Showdowns: JP 2023 / JP 2024 / 2024 / 2023 / 20222021

Lifetime Showdown / Historical Showdown / YOY Charts

With a life cycle long enough yes.



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Of course. 



BiON!@ 

hellobion2 said:

Of course. 

How so?



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.