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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Unpopular opinion (on the internet): BotW and TotK's weapon durability feature is one of these games greatest mechanics

Here is my exact experience with BOTW so TOTK fix all these

have mixed feelings.

On the one hand, Breath of the Wild is the first Zelda game in a long time that actually attempts to be challenging. From Wind Waker onwards, the games were explicitly designed to be very easy, with deaths occurring only a handful of times (if you're at all experienced with games). BotW at least deserves credit for its intent.

However, that attempted difficulty is undermined by the sheer brokenness of its mechanics. Food, armor, and flurry rush all trivialize the combat to an obscene degree once you understand them. I think the fact that Zelda had been easy for such a long time meant the Zelda team didn't quite understand how to design a consistently challenging game. That's not to say that the game getting easier over time is entirely unintentional (like with the champion powers), but the sheer imbalance of truffles, for example, makes for a very sharp difficulty drop.

Another issue is the lack of enemy variety, as you alluded to. It's hard to stay excited about the combat when you're facing the same enemies over and over, just in different colors. Your first lynel fight is arguably the peak of the combat system, and that can happen a few hours in. There's not enough novelty to sustain the game's length.

A third issue is how durability works. There's been a lot of talk about durability, and there are moments in the game where it shines, but it undermines any sense of weapon progression. Every weapon in the game (except the Master Sword, which itself is limited) is ephemeral, so you never feel objectively more powerful.

The last big issue I have is the controls. In my opinion 3D Zelda has always controlled very stiffly. Ocarina of Time was still figuring out 3D combat so it can be excused, but its sequels copied its movement too faithfully while ignoring all the innovations that happened in action games since then. Breath of the Wild is a bit smoother, but you can still feel that vestigal stiffness. Compared to something like Nioh which released around the same time, it's night and day. BotW isn't -just- an action game so it's not an entirely fair comparison, but it feels like a relic compared to its contemporaries.



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zeldaring said:

...when you hear about open world games and what they wish they would take from zelda botw, it's usually the freedom, and not Hand holding design.

That's what open world games (mostly RPGs) were back in days - people either haven't played them, haven't heard of them (since most of them were computer/PC exclusives) or just forgot about them.



IcaroRibeiro said:

Btw I'm still trying to understand how making the weapons breakable to make players try them all is a good mechanic 

Let's be real: There are only 3 types of weapons in BOTW and TOTK: One hand, two hand and spears. Granted there are boomerangs which are slightly different from other one handed weapons. Combined this with the 3 elemental variations and we have a total of 12 weapons types as far as mechanics are concerned and again most of they will play exactly the same way just with different elemental effects (or lack of elemental effects in the case of non elemental weapons) 

Enemy variety and weakness would be more than enough to force you to rotate all your 12 types of weapons, you don't need to break them at all 

Guys love Zelda, I get it. I love it to. It's one of my favorite games and I get to play it regularly many years after its release because the gameplay looping is really addictive, the puzzles are fun and its very immersive and fun to explore, but come on, not every mechanic introduced here is revolutionary or groundbreaking 

Fire, Ice, Electric, Wind and Water. Plus using an axe or a hammer gives you different results while using in battle, so there's a lot to be added on that mix. Just a little correction 

Last edited by 160rmf - on 27 May 2023

 

 

We reap what we sow

Kakadu18 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Btw I'm still trying to understand how making the weapons breakable to make players try them all is a good mechanic 

Let's be real: There are only 3 types of weapons in BOTW and TOTK: One hand, two hand and spears. Granted there are boomerangs which are slightly different from other one handed weapons. Combined this with the 3 elemental variations and we have a total of 12 weapons types as far as mechanics are concerned and again most of they will play exactly the same way just with different elemental effects (or lack of elemental effects in the case of non elemental weapons) 

Enemy variety and weakness would be more than enough to force you to rotate all your 12 types of weapons, you don't need to break them at all 

Guys love Zelda, I get it. I love it to. It's one of my favorite games and I get to play it regularly many years after its release because the gameplay looping is really addictive, the puzzles are fun and its very immersive and fun to explore, but come on, not every mechanic introduced here is revolutionary or groundbreaking 

There are also wind cleavers and in TotK different weapons give various additional abilities and stats. You should be aware of those if you paid any attention in the game. And in addition to that fusing with different items can give weapons even more properties.

The wind leaves just like torches were not exactly designed for combat and that's why I didn't included them

And yup, TOTK does much better in this side effects because fusing can add a lot of spicy on weapon variability, that's why I'm somewhat inclined to believe breaking in TOTK is indeed far more lenient and less infuriating compared to BOTW

However, the weapon breaking being able to make people have more use of weapons type is pointless. There is a lot of depth in BOTW, but it's NOT tied to weaponry variety but rather to the game physics and Sheika Slate abilities. If, as I stated before, you have a group of ~12 fixed weapons and upgrades on them the effect in the game would be the same. I truly believe at least the MS + 4 champeons weapons should be unbreakable

Last edited by IcaroRibeiro - on 27 May 2023

160rmf said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Btw I'm still trying to understand how making the weapons breakable to make players try them all is a good mechanic 

Let's be real: There are only 3 types of weapons in BOTW and TOTK: One hand, two hand and spears. Granted there are boomerangs which are slightly different from other one handed weapons. Combined this with the 3 elemental variations and we have a total of 12 weapons types as far as mechanics are concerned and again most of they will play exactly the same way just with different elemental effects (or lack of elemental effects in the case of non elemental weapons) 

Enemy variety and weakness would be more than enough to force you to rotate all your 12 types of weapons, you don't need to break them at all 

Guys love Zelda, I get it. I love it to. It's one of my favorite games and I get to play it regularly many years after its release because the gameplay looping is really addictive, the puzzles are fun and its very immersive and fun to explore, but come on, not every mechanic introduced here is revolutionary or groundbreaking 

Fire, Ice, Electric, Wind and Water. Plus using an axe or a hammer gives you different results while using in battle, so there's a lot to be added on that mix. Just a little correction 

Water didn't exist in BOTW (well Lizalfos could trough water on you), and wind was restricted to leaves. But you might have a point here

I'm still testing TOTK (only ~24 hours on it) and so far my wind weapons doesn't really look suited for combat yet, maybe I just didn't find a good combination though 

As for water it helps to clean and helps when fighting fire enemies, a niche ice enemies already fill. I was thinking maybe it could be an advantage against electric enemies, but I didn't reached the parts of the map where electric enemies are commons 



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curl-6 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Btw I'm still trying to understand how making the weapons breakable to make players try them all is a good mechanic 

Let's be real: There are only 3 types of weapons in BOTW and TOTK: One hand, two hand and spears. Granted there are boomerangs which are slightly different from other one handed weapons. Combined this with the 3 elemental variations and we have a total of 12 weapons types as far as mechanics are concerned and again most of they will play exactly the same way just with different elemental effects (or lack of elemental effects in the case of non elemental weapons) 

Enemy variety and weakness would be more than enough to force you to rotate all your 12 types of weapons, you don't need to break them at all 

Guys love Zelda, I get it. I love it to. It's one of my favorite games and I get to play it regularly many years after its release because the gameplay looping is really addictive, the puzzles are fun and its very immersive and fun to explore, but come on, not every mechanic introduced here is revolutionary or groundbreaking 

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally love it because it means I'm constantly getting, (or fusing in the case of TOTK) new weapons to try out, and there's more properties weapons can have than just spear/one-handed sword/two handed sword/boomerang and ice/fire/electric, such as sharp or blunt, leaves that blow enemies, certain weapons that bounce enemies, the other day I fused a beehive to a sword and inflicted angry bees on my foes... even down to enjoying the visual variety of their designs.

I also love the resource management aspect of it, deciding how to best deploy whatever limited resources are at my disposal against the situations the game throws at me.

I'm an avid turned based SRPG player, so micromaneging weapons and skills is my passion lol

Still, this game is not turned based, it's an adventure game so pausing the fight every 5 seconds to select a new bow combinations is a bit... strange I think. I definitely don't like it, mess up with the flow of my battle imo 

What determines to me what a good battle is generally the thrill, I.e. the sense of "I'm going to die any moment if I don't fight properly". One of the recent games on Nintendo that perfectly evokes the thrill on me was Metroid Dread, it was enough fast paced and challenging to keep me constantly aware of my surroundings and mindful of my reflexes

Zelda fails to invoke me the thrill. The fights are mostly just plain boring for me, and that's OK, it's not the point of the game, I doesn't bother me, the game is good enough to allow me to skip fighting if I don't like it 



pikashoe said:
SvennoJ said:

So far the combat hasn't posed any challenge, just boring obstacles. In BotW the same. Sure the silver Lynels were harder but all you have to do is roll at the right time. That I can do. It's not a matter of skill, it's just not very interesting to do. But that's not limited to Zelda, combat is simply very low on my list of things to like in games. Honestly I can't remember the last time I wanted to continue a game for its combat system.

Have you finished the tutorial yet?

Well the Sky Island one, but just seems to keep on going in Hyrule! It just forced me to use a sky tower to explain fast travel again. Silly me tried to immediately fly into the chasm by the castle with the para glider. I tried before with the wing a bunch of times, but keeps despawning before I get to the bottom no matter how low I start or steep descent I try. Tried with a closed cart as well as Link often survives long falls if touching something, but died when the vehicle came to a stop on the glowing walls. The paraglider also despawned / turned off near the chasm and no way to get it going again nor steer Link to where it might work again. So he fell to his death and I had to sit through the whole unskippable sequence again lol. Do as you're told, or else :p

Anyway left off where the chasm explorer chief wants me to go.

I guess there is no auto map? I remember now from BotW I traced the edges of each zone blind on the map to explore before using the tower last. Filling feautures in with icons to mark where I had been already. Since it's the same map this time, is there a point to explore it all again, that's what I'm currently wondering. So following the quests this time. First to explore the depths.

And so far I haven't fought anything yet since Sky Island, just go around them. I spend more time lifting the wing up to the top of the castle to fly back (combination of recall and grab to lift it up where it won't spawn) than it would have taken to simply run back lol.



SvennoJ said:
pikashoe said:

Have you finished the tutorial yet?

Well the Sky Island one, but just seems to keep on going in Hyrule! It just forced me to use a sky tower to explain fast travel again. Silly me tried to immediately fly into the chasm by the castle with the para glider. I tried before with the wing a bunch of times, but keeps despawning before I get to the bottom no matter how low I start or steep descent I try. Tried with a closed cart as well as Link often survives long falls if touching something, but died when the vehicle came to a stop on the glowing walls. The paraglider also despawned / turned off near the chasm and no way to get it going again nor steer Link to where it might work again. So he fell to his death and I had to sit through the whole unskippable sequence again lol. Do as you're told, or else :p

Anyway left off where the chasm explorer chief wants me to go.

I guess there is no auto map? I remember now from BotW I traced the edges of each zone blind on the map to explore before using the tower last. Filling feautures in with icons to mark where I had been already. Since it's the same map this time, is there a point to explore it all again, that's what I'm currently wondering. So following the quests this time. First to explore the depths.

And so far I haven't fought anything yet since Sky Island, just go around them. I spend more time lifting the wing up to the top of the castle to fly back (combination of recall and grab to lift it up where it won't spawn) than it would have taken to simply run back lol.

I'm not even sure what you're on about anymore. Once you get to hyrule you can just go wherever your not forced to go anywhere or do anything (unless you want something specific like unlocking sections of the map) although it is recommended to follow some main quests early on for the glider and sky towers for easier traversal. You can get down the chasm under the castle if you want its not that hard. What unskippable sequence? 

I don't really understand why you are going out of your way to not enjoy the game. It seems like every choice you make is to make your own experience worse and then complain about it? You just seem to be wasting your own time for no real reason. I'm reading your comments and just laughing everytime because they are so bizarre. 



pikashoe said:

I'm not even sure what you're on about anymore. Once you get to hyrule you can just go wherever your not forced to go anywhere or do anything (unless you want something specific like unlocking sections of the map) although it is recommended to follow some main quests early on for the glider and sky towers for easier traversal. You can get down the chasm under the castle if you want its not that hard. What unskippable sequence? 

I don't really understand why you are going out of your way to not enjoy the game. It seems like every choice you make is to make your own experience worse and then complain about it? You just seem to be wasting your own time for no real reason. I'm reading your comments and just laughing everytime because they are so bizarre. 

That's what you read into it. I enjoy exploration and experimenting, hence trying to fly down into the chasm and using the wing to fly back to lookout town. And yes you have to follow the quests initially to get the paraglider at least (which doesn't work to get into the chasm or maybe just because I tried too early, I dunno, guess I'll follow the quest to see what it takes to get into a chasm)

I don't want to be in a situation again where I don't run into the Korok dude until 80h in lol.

You asked me if I finished the tutorial yet and I replied with where I are in the game. Yet you just see more complaining? If I didn't enjoy experimenting I would not be playing it anymore. Certainly not playing it for the combat. And yes after I died, the whole tower sequence started from scratch, continue back at the bottom before activating the tower without any option to skip the cut scenes. I'm just telling it as I experience it.

Ultrahand is a great mechanic, although a bit clunky and limited in its use. Fuse is ok, feels a bit cheap so far, basically cooking applied to weapons. Recall is useful, Ascend feels like a cheat, the weakest of the bunch. So I focus mostly on Ultra hand and am eager to explore new parts. Not so eager to explore Hyrule again, been there, done that. The mystery of what's beyond that hill is already gone, with it the incentive to climb every peak to look out over the land.

It's a mixed bag, more Zelda great. More Zelda on the same map, not great. New abilities great, same weapon durability not great.



SvennoJ said:
pikashoe said:

Have you finished the tutorial yet?

Well the Sky Island one, but just seems to keep on going in Hyrule! It just forced me to use a sky tower to explain fast travel again. Silly me tried to immediately fly into the chasm by the castle with the para glider. I tried before with the wing a bunch of times, but keeps despawning before I get to the bottom no matter how low I start or steep descent I try. Tried with a closed cart as well as Link often survives long falls if touching something, but died when the vehicle came to a stop on the glowing walls. The paraglider also despawned / turned off near the chasm and no way to get it going again nor steer Link to where it might work again. So he fell to his death and I had to sit through the whole unskippable sequence again lol. Do as you're told, or else :p

Anyway left off where the chasm explorer chief wants me to go.

I guess there is no auto map? I remember now from BotW I traced the edges of each zone blind on the map to explore before using the tower last. Filling feautures in with icons to mark where I had been already. Since it's the same map this time, is there a point to explore it all again, that's what I'm currently wondering. So following the quests this time. First to explore the depths.

And so far I haven't fought anything yet since Sky Island, just go around them. I spend more time lifting the wing up to the top of the castle to fly back (combination of recall and grab to lift it up where it won't spawn) than it would have taken to simply run back lol.

What unskippable sequence? You can just jump into any chasm and land safely no problem if you have the paraglider. I went down below Hyrule Castle several times already.

The zonai gliders despawn after a few minutes of use but your paraglider doesn't despawn. Or did you not notice that you use durability while gliding? The paraglider closes automatically if you don't have durability left but you can still open it for one second after that, ideally just above the ground. You can also just jump down and open it when you're closer to the ground. You know, falling down doesn't require weird vehicles. And you can steer the direction Link falls in TotK. He goes into a specific position, face downwards when falling.

You couldn't figure this out on your own?