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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - TotK really makes Switch feel dated

IcaroRibeiro said:

We don't know yet. In BOTW you get experience points after beating an enemy, but the experience caps at the 10th enemy of a certain specie and color you kill. Special enemies and bosses give you more experience. I'd say you won't be able to get over blue and black minions without beating the temples first 

I haven't beaten any temples and I have silver monsters everywhere already. But even early on in very far off areas you encounter silver monsters.



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Chrkeller said:
zeldaring said:

Cool, really darks souls 3? I feel sikero and bloodborne are so much better
Combat wise it felt to slow and it's so hard to parry.

I love souls and blood.  I hated sekiro.  I couldn't get the system to ever click.  Never made it more than 30% in the game.  It is the only from software game I didn't love.  

Let me tell you, i felt the same. I hated the almost useless dodge and roll, and suffered with the need of constant parrys, but... I adapted, and Man, It feels good! Parry becomes mostly natural, and feels great, jumping and counters also start to come naturaly.

Sekiro is that game that takes a bit of time to master, but feels great once you get used combat is master class!



Manlytears said:
Chrkeller said:

I love souls and blood.  I hated sekiro.  I couldn't get the system to ever click.  Never made it more than 30% in the game.  It is the only from software game I didn't love.  

Let me tell you, i felt the same. I hated the almost useless dodge and roll, and suffered with the need of constant parrys, but... I adapted, and Man, It feels good! Parry becomes mostly natural, and feels great, jumping and counters also start to come naturaly.

Sekiro is that game that takes a bit of time to master, but feels great once you get used combat is master class!

Its kinda like playing your first souls game. once you get it the feeling is amazing  amazing. I finished the game 7 times. The level design is amazing as well. loved the sculptor story and isshin. 4 different endings that were all amazing. It's  the perfect game for me.

Last edited by zeldaring - on 30 May 2023

SvennoJ said:
Wyrdness said:

The laugh comes from thinking it's comparable tbh, for example you are comparing numerous set routes to dynamic interactions. Yes the are many roads that can make up a route and the is some dynamic in the road someone takes in a route but this isn't the same as interactions in the game worlds we are discussing for example your tomtom isn't tracking the physics of every tree and so on while rendering all of Paris and it's people and vehicles it is a different application all together. It's practically apples to oranges. 

Sure, it isn't comparable as TotK doesn't deal with fuzzy logic, mapping unreliable gps data to unreliable road data with added dead reckoning using motion sensors to determine which road and what level of overlapping roads you're following while dealing with dynamic changes to the map, all while driving with added forward prediction to compensate for lag in gps data reception. Damn I wish it was as simple as the car is at X,Y,Z on road R pointing with direction included.
Maybe the user entered a parking lot, taking an exit in a tunnel (where there is no gps reception) is the user still following the route or are the motion sensors measuring straight travel. Quick reroute to the nearest gas station, is the overall route still valid or is there a better one now with timed restrictions / timed speed limits along the route.

Yep not comparable at all to a game where everything is known and you can simply pop up a loading screen or long falls to hide data loading.

However in scope, complexity, storage, it's all just manipulating data in the end. And TotK isn't tracking the physics of every tree. Physics simulation starts and stops with the user interacting with objects. Once objects stop moving they are no longer animated, just rendered where ever they ended up. Until some other active object or the user touches it. NPCs have simple routines, following set paths. Enemy AI is pretty standard from what I've seen so far. The amount of interactions you can do is the impressive part.

As a software developer I'm more impressed by FS2020, the whole world seamless (well minus the poles due to their legacy data structure) with dynamic real time weather (with turbulence, temperature, atmospheric pressure all affecting the wings and flight dynamics of the plane) dynamic traffic (all actual live flights are present in the game), boat traffic, cars, other players, some spots with wildlife, thousands of POIs and many photogrammetry areas integrated. All coming from different servers in real time. And it runs on a Series S!


And back to the topic, don't you think persistence could have worked in TotK with better hardware? (more RAM and/or more storage space) As I said before, just 1MB is enough to store the position and orientation of 47 thousand objects before compression. (And more if fused as then it becomes relative coordinates which take even less space to store) Gonna take a while to build that much!

While you are correct that object permanence isn't exactly "hard" or "impossible", the data that is used would likely be moderately larger than you are suggesting. The reason why this isn't implemented is to reduce the bloatation of save files, something that Skyrim famously failed to do until they released the legendary edition and patched it. 

Lots of games use object permanence for SOME things, typically vehicles..sometimes enemies. Another thing is that while objects arent rendered, the data still has to be read quite constantly (e.g. approaching XYZ coordinate, read data for objects within that XYZ coordinate, call to draw objects for that XYZ coordinate and apply physical based attributes). This is why games that do have object permanence often have them fall from a short distance above the ground as you are approaching. It's just more taxing when the system resources could be (and are) better spent elsewhere. 

That said, I do wish TotK had a larger area to work with before objects disappeared. I went to chase a wheel that rolled away only for the whole wagon to be gone when I came back. 



I tried sekiro twice but perhaps third time is a charm



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Chrkeller said:

I tried sekiro twice but perhaps third time is a charm

The first play through will be hell similar to the average gamer's first play through with darks souls 1. eventually you will be doing this things like this and feel like you are playing a samurai anime

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-yWJBEhNSs4



Doctor_MG said:

While you are correct that object permanence isn't exactly "hard" or "impossible", the data that is used would likely be moderately larger than you are suggesting. The reason why this isn't implemented is to reduce the bloatation of save files, something that Skyrim famously failed to do until they released the legendary edition and patched it. 

Lots of games use object permanence for SOME things, typically vehicles..sometimes enemies. Another thing is that while objects arent rendered, the data still has to be read quite constantly (e.g. approaching XYZ coordinate, read data for objects within that XYZ coordinate, call to draw objects for that XYZ coordinate and apply physical based attributes). This is why games that do have object permanence often have them fall from a short distance above the ground as you are approaching. It's just more taxing when the system resources could be (and are) better spent elsewhere. 

That said, I do wish TotK had a larger area to work with before objects disappeared. I went to chase a wheel that rolled away only for the whole wagon to be gone when I came back. 

True, it takes up more system resources, hence the hardware being the limiting factor, together with the design choice to favor build complexity over permanence. Hence your wagon disappearing :/

It's not that intensive though. Only when the next cell is fetched (gets in range) does it need to check for changes, which it does already to remove all the enemies you've already killed and items you've picked up. And sure, if there are objects added by the player, then they do need to be rendered like everything else.

Since TotK has two versions of Hyrule (the one you see from the sky is lower detail) it would also be weird not to see your giant tower structures from the sky. It can be done of course, but more work, more data to create lower detail versions of player builds.

And yep, TotK makes lots of save files, makes sense to keep them small. I have not seen any reason yet to revert to an older save yet, maybe it's just a fail safe. My Minecraft saves got very big lol. It took over a minute to make a backup copy on the old ps4. So a smart save load system is needed as well. All possible, but more work as seen with Skyrim.



Chrkeller said:

I tried sekiro twice but perhaps third time is a charm

Your top 3 is now:

1. TotK

2. BotW

3. Souls 3

;) Nice. Looks like the graphics tech didn't phase you. Honestly I don't see why people are disturbed the game looks beautiful despite being limited by reasonably older tech.

I guess different strokes for different folks. Anyhow most of the internet seems very happy with the game, my feeds are flooded with totk stuff and I don't really have subscriptions to many such channels. I think op and other agreeing opinions is a very small and too vocal minority.



padib said:
Chrkeller said:

I tried sekiro twice but perhaps third time is a charm

Your top 3 is now:

1. TotK

2. BotW

3. Souls 3

;) Nice. Looks like the graphics tech didn't phase you. Honestly I don't see why people are disturbed the game looks beautiful despite being limited by reasonably older tech.

I guess different strokes for different folks. Anyhow most of the internet seems very happy with the game, my feeds are flooded with totk stuff and I don't really have subscriptions to many such channels. I think op and other agreeing opinions is a very small and too vocal minority.

I always thought art style trumped graphics.



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Switch OLED

Chrkeller said:
padib said:

Your top 3 is now:

1. TotK

2. BotW

3. Souls 3

;) Nice. Looks like the graphics tech didn't phase you. Honestly I don't see why people are disturbed the game looks beautiful despite being limited by reasonably older tech.

I guess different strokes for different folks. Anyhow most of the internet seems very happy with the game, my feeds are flooded with totk stuff and I don't really have subscriptions to many such channels. I think op and other agreeing opinions is a very small and too vocal minority.

I always thought art style trumped graphics.

It does. But graphics (to use your word) greatly helps to realize and support a game’s artistic vision.