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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The growing third party issue with the Xbox Series S

EpicRandy said:
Pemalite said:

The difference between X and S is far larger than the Switch Docked vs Undocked.

For example, the Switch doesn't loose 60% of it's Ram, it's Ram bandwidth doesn't increase by 150% going from undocked to docked... Which impacts the texture and pixel fillrate of the GPU.

I do agree that the Series S will be targeting a lower visual bar, so it can get away with less hardware, but the Switch comparison isn't even in the same ballpark.

It still result in 2 different specs with which dev have to deal with and they deal with it with very similar aproach. But yeah the difference X/S vs switch dock vs handeld is greater but so is 1080p/4k vs 720p/1080p. 

Also it does not loose 60% of the ram 10/16 is 62 % which is 38% lower not 60%

Yeah but resolution is only one thing, it's about shadows, lightening, particles, draw distance etc. Xbox Series S can run many last gen games in 1440p. Many games on PS4 target 1440p, since the visual quality doesn't get that much better above that. Better lightening, shadows and effects do way more. Yet a game mostly designed around the specs for PS5, might simply not run as well on Series S by only adjusting the resolution.

Everything needs to be lowered, probably to the point below low settings for pc, since PS5 is basically mid pc at this point for current gen only games. The Witcher 3 can run on Switch for example, but only with really big drawbacks and it cost a lot of time to make those.

If the game doesn't release on gamepass I can definitely see Devs not going to optimize for the Xbox S version and just put the settings on low and call it a day. For most games it's not like where the bulk of the sales come from. For promotion you want the game to look as good as possible on the main platform, probably PS5. So that doesn't help either 

Last edited by Qwark - on 12 March 2023

Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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lansingone said:

I can see the point that having to also port games to last gen will take away time that could have been spent optimizing for series s, but I also do wonder if that extra time gained will be negated by games becoming too complex to easily run on xsx or PS5 anyway. I can't be alone in thinking that these days of games regularly having almost native 4k won't last forever. Someone at some point is going to start pushing graphical fidelity at the cost of resolution/fps.

The point is that few people on Series S buy games to begin with. Meanwhile PS4 still sells loads of games. Given how expensive game development is, it's only logical to sell to a huge userbase rather than a small one. People who buy a Series S and gamepass don't buy many games outside of it. For now many games with an old gen port are mostly PS4 games which are ported to PS5/XS with extra bells and whistles like Resident Evil. Those games still look rather good, look at RE4 remake for example.

It's games like Hogwarts Legacy that will be the problem. Especially games similar in scope, but nowhere as profitable, since less profit also means less investment in the product. Subpar optimising for XSS can reduce investment costs.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

BINARYGOD said:
SKMBlake said:

I can name 1st party or indie games that run good on the Series S, I can even name games that have Ray Tracing on the Series S. But that wouldn't be my point.

Well, actually, no you cannot just ignore games that work just fine.  

I def can, cause it's not the point of the thread.

I could've made a thread about the Switch and 3rd party devs not porting games on it, and your answer would've been the same. But wouldn't be my point.

Is there games that run well on the Series S ? Yes

Is there games that run poorly on the Series S ? Also yes

Is there issues with games needing to have parity between the Series X and S ? Also also yes.

The mere existence of games running well on the Series S do not cancel the other issues. Even if it's a dev issue.

Could the Switch run proper versions of Fifa ? Probably. Does EA develop proper Fifa on the Switch ? No. And that's an issue. 



Qwark said:
EpicRandy said:

It still result in 2 different specs with which dev have to deal with and they deal with it with very similar aproach. But yeah the difference X/S vs switch dock vs handeld is greater but so is 1080p/4k vs 720p/1080p. 

Also it does not loose 60% of the ram 10/16 is 62 % which is 38% lower not 60%

Yeah but resolution is only one thing, it's about shadows, lightening, particles, draw distance etc. Xbox Series S can run many last gen games in 1440p. Many games on PS4 target 1440p, since the visual quality doesn't get that much better above that. Better lightening, shadows and effects do way more. Yet a game mostly designed around the specs for PS5, might simply not run as well on Series S by only adjusting the resolution.

Everything needs to be lowered, probably to the point below low settings for pc, since PS5 is basically mid pc at this point for current gen only games. The Witcher 3 can run on Switch for example, but only with really big drawbacks and it cost a lot of time to make those.

If the game doesn't release on gamepass I can definitely see Devs not going to optimize for the Xbox S version and just put the settings on low and call it a day. For most games it's not like where the bulk of the sales come from. For promotion you want the game to look as good as possible on the main platform, probably PS5. So that doesn't help either 

Resolution is only the target output. If you target 1080p instead of 4k you will use assets accordingly too. Meshes with less LoD, smaller texture, less detailed particles effects etc.. Ligtning will be easier to process with models having less polygons so will be shadows and every post processing. 

All consoles were only equivalent to average build 2 years into their gen nothing new here. The 8th gen was even worst. The point of console is you have a specific target to witch you can really optimize for compare to PC and this is also true for Series S. 

Ports to the switch cost a lot of time for the devs because it has a way les capable CPU which is also arm instead of X86. A lot of logics have to be rewritten to be optimized for ARM. Also you have a GPU that is about 1/8 the power of the series S when handled and feature older tech. Imagine a trying to cram a 1080p or 900p or even a 720p Series S title into a 720p switch one with only  ~1/8 of the processing power. And even then devs are making a good experience. Series S port from the X will never be as time consuming as this nor they will be as reductive.

If devs decide to go the easy route and put settings on low they have every right to do so but most will do better has they are now. Even then the option for an extremly easy & lazy ports make the case that MS don't need to do anything with the series S except selling as much as they can all through the gen.

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 13 March 2023

SKMBlake said:
BINARYGOD said:

Well, actually, no you cannot just ignore games that work just fine.  

I def can, cause it's not the point of the thread.

I could've made a thread about the Switch and 3rd party devs not porting games on it, and your answer would've been the same. But wouldn't be my point.

Is there games that run well on the Series S ? Yes

Is there games that run poorly on the Series S ? Also yes

Is there issues with games needing to have parity between the Series X and S ? Also also yes.

The mere existence of games running well on the Series S do not cancel the other issues. Even if it's a dev issue.

Could the Switch run proper versions of Fifa ? Probably. Does EA develop proper Fifa on the Switch ? No. And that's an issue. 

But the real question should actualy be is there a game that run well on Series X that run poorly on Series S. Because to this point every game that run poorly on the S also run poorly on the X albeit at a higher resolution target. If you want to look only at Series S few poorly performing title to make a point without aknowleging the game perform also poorly on the X and even the PS5 than it only seems like you have fake concern series S.



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EpicRandy said:
SKMBlake said:

I def can, cause it's not the point of the thread.

I could've made a thread about the Switch and 3rd party devs not porting games on it, and your answer would've been the same. But wouldn't be my point.

Is there games that run well on the Series S ? Yes

Is there games that run poorly on the Series S ? Also yes

Is there issues with games needing to have parity between the Series X and S ? Also also yes.

The mere existence of games running well on the Series S do not cancel the other issues. Even if it's a dev issue.

Could the Switch run proper versions of Fifa ? Probably. Does EA develop proper Fifa on the Switch ? No. And that's an issue. 

But the real question should actualy be is there a game that run well on Series X that run poorly on Series S. 

Well Wo Long runs pretty well on Series X



ConservagameR said:
Norion said:

People getting a cheap option to play stuff like GTA 6 is nice even if it runs poorly but I am concerned about it being a headache for a lot of developers a few years from now. It's kinda like if developers were forced to have their games run properly on a 2060 till like 2031 if they were making a PC version. 

It depends on what MS and it's customers demand and expect. MS being a PC company for much longer than a console company, who's been trying to bridge the gap for quite some time now, very well doesn't or won't care as much as the gen goes on if the Series S games are far inferior to the Series X. As long as the games play well enough and aren't terribly broken and glitched, if you want better graphics and smoother framerates, find a way to upgrade to the higher tier X model.

There's also the possibility that as time goes on, if Series S continues to sell better, especially if the gap widens in it's favor, MS very well may ask devs to shift some effort from Series X to Series S. You wouldn't want to take too much away from your top tier X model, but if you've clearly got a much larger audience playing on the lower tier S model, it wouldn't be crazy to see MS ask to take a bit of the polish time away from X version games and use that time to improve S version games a bit.

The XB console space can work a lot like the PC space as you've mentioned, as long as the consoles remain much simpler to operate vs PC's. Offering a few different console game modes like performance vs resolution is about as far as it needs to go. As long as the lowest tier present gen console experience is just good enough, casual console gamers will accept it as long as the price is right. Some of them are even accepting it on last gens XB One right now, so present gens Series S would probably seem like a worthy upgrade to some of those casual gamers.

I don't see it continuing to sell better as time goes on cause I think most console gamers won't want to play versions of games like GTA 6 and Witcher 4 that run poorly. With stock getting increasingly normalized now I see Series S making up a smaller and smaller share of Xbox Series sales as this gen goes on.



SKMBlake said:
EpicRandy said:

But the real question should actualy be is there a game that run well on Series X that run poorly on Series S. 

Well Wo Long runs pretty well on Series X

Really? At 1440p resolutions mode and 1260p performance very far from what is typical 9th gen target. considering those res it's impressive the series s manage 900p on both settings instead of defaulting to 720p, 900P on S should have been a 1800p target for Series X and Ps5. even more impressive considering Series S manage less deviation from target FPS than both Series X and PS5.



DroidKnight said:
kirby007 said:

I fail seeing the point of this thread, seeing as we are getting last gen versions of games untill atleast 2024.

I see the point of this thread.

gr8 b8 m8



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If the Series S continues to sell well, we'll probably keep getting AAA games. Even the very weak Switch has received many ports we didn't think would be feasible (with heavy compromises).
Maybe a lot later into the gen, there will be plenty of third-party games that aren't compatible with the Series S.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 156 million (was 73, then 96, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million)

PS5: 115 million (was 105 million) Xbox Series S/X: 48 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

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