I do understand. Maybe there are better answers, but I don't think Ukraine conceding is anywhere near the right one.

If a bully is beating up someone's kid, the advice isn't to give them some of your lunch money. The bully has to lose, or else he's just going to continue to be a bully. 

And this isn't a hypothetical. 

This isn't the first country that Russia has invaded. It isn't the first time they've fought with Ukraine.

Russian occupation of Crimea

Marking 16 Years Since Russia’s Invasion of Georgia

Modern history already shows that Ukraine conceding would not help. 

Yeah, answer this LegitHyperbole, Lol.

Because this is pretty much exactly Russia's logic, their Soviet Union back in the day was pretty powerful, they had multiple countries under their thumb, Putin straight up whipped out a map to say that Ukrainians as a people do not exist and Ukraine as a country does not exist and is Russia's by right, the same excuse he used for Crimea! That Russia never "technically" gave it away so it gave them the right to forcefully take it off Ukraine.

UK could use the exact same bullshit excuse to go invade Ireland and slaughter thousands of Irish people. Would you be happy if people in entirely different countries like Switzerland were saying "Ireland. You should surrender your territory to UK for peace" and some internet user was saying "We shouldn't support Ireland's ability to defend themselves, cut all aid off to them!"

I know if any part of UK was invaded by Russia, I wouldn't want UK to sit back and say "Oh okay, I'm sorry Russia, you can have it, take it! We come in peace!" I would want UK to fight back and defend its country and people, no matter if it was Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Falkland Isles, Cayman Islands! Because it would firstly be the right thing to do and secondly history has shown us how much of a disaster it is to bend over for imperialist countries because they do not stop if nobody stands up against them.

Why is it that Eastern Europe who literally borders Russia has more balls than those in Western Europe? Why is it always Western Europeans telling them what to do? I know for a fact that most people telling Ukraine what to do would be massive hypocrites in the event of the same scenario happening to their country.

+ Chechnya War 1 and 2.

If Russia does manage to link up to Transnistria then Moldova will be next and Russia would have little issue in beating down Moldova.

I'm sick of people in other countries acting like Eastern European countries have no agency for themselves, I'm sick of people telling them what to do, if Ukraine decides one day it wants to surrender then I wouldn't agree with the decision, I would think it would be a terrible idea and very bad precedence but I would support it, why? Because Ukraine is an independent country that makes its own decisions.

Ukraine was however, fighting Russia long before the West pulled their finger out their asses and decided to support Ukraine; Since as long as 2014, Ukraine has been fighting Russia long before Western Support actually stepped up, in the early days of the invasion, Ukraine didn't have Bradley's, Abrams, F16s, etc. They mostly had old and outdated Soviet Union era equipment and did they surrender without the West's support? No. They fought for their lives. Kyiv was almost encircled and Ukraine still fought. Without heavy Western Support.

It took months until the first Western MBTs were sent, it took even longer for Long-Range Missiles to be sent and even longer for Modern Jets to be sent. Ukraine still fought while they desperately pleaded for the West for their support. Ukraine could have surrendered long ago, when Western Support was terrible. They still fought.

So do I think cutting off Western Aid would even stop Ukraine from fighting anyway? No I don't. Because it's their country, it's their people that are being killed and slaughtered, it's their people being bombed and raped, they've lost too much, how do you tell a family of a dead soldier that he died for nothing? Ukraine already threw out one of their Presidents because he was seen as being too much of a Russian puppet.

Ukraine is a heavily militarised country now, I dread to think what would happen to Zelenskyy if he surrendered to Russia and rewarded them with Ukrainian land. People are naïve in thinking everything is just going to go back to normal. Ukrainians will despite Russia for the next century and I doubt they'll be happy with anything less than their land returned.

Good point. They could have been stopped at Crimea.

Well we'd wage guerrilla warfare once again and it would be a never ending war, there as likely to win by nuking the country down to ruble and rebuilding. Russia can take Ukraine, they'll never hold it because of Gurilla warfare. I don't know which is worse. This or that to be honest, probably the never ending war. What I said still stands, eventually a reolution will have to be made so why not get one in the world now and save lives, loss and suffering. 

Now do you understand why placating them is a bad idea? Lol.

They should have been stopped at Crimea, they could have been stopped at Crimea, but instead the Western world largely looked the other way, Obama gave Russia a slap on the wrist, we went back to business as usual with Russia (also ignoring them illegally occupying parts of Moldova and Georgia) because we wanted those sweet trade deals and we're terrified of "escalation"

And Russia repaid us by spitting in our face and invading the rest of Ukraine.

Ukraine has been fighting Russia since 2014...It took until 2022 for the West to start actually sending Ukraine significant military equipment because we finally went "Okay, now you've gone too far" but the reason Russia was able to go too far is because they were emboldened by our lack of action, by our fear, Russia's military was weaker in 2014 than it was in 2022 and we could have stopped them there.

Also by staying in Crimea and Donbas, Russia in effect would have prevented Ukraine from ever joining NATO because Ukraine would not have been able to join NATO whilst in active conflict and Ukraine would have remained in active conflict as long as they rightfully continued to recognise Crimea and Donbas as their territory.

You could just surrender your territory to the UK because someone in Switzerland told you to?

It wouldn't last as long if the West stopped being cowardly and sent Ukraine what it needed from the start to beat Russia back, if the West didn't put a bunch of restrictions on Ukraine, Israel has less restrictions on it than Ukraine does and Israel's "foe" is far weaker than Russia.

The best way to get the most desirable resolution for Ukraine is for them to punish Russia as much as possible, a resolution with a country that doesn't want a resolution is not a resolution, Russia has repeatedly shown they aren't interested in any peace deal which doesn't end up with Ukraine demilitarising and Russia retaining 20% of Ukraine's territory and Ukraine having no military allies.

Your peace deal to save lives is temporary, delaying the inevitable, which would be a 3rd invasion when Russia has repaired its dire armed forces. Who would return to Ukraine of the millions that have fled knowing that Russia will once again invade in the future? Knowing that Ukraine is defenceless against further attack? Knowing that once again nobody will defend them?

Nobody would return, the millions of Ukrainians who have fled to Europe would instead stay in Europe's NATO blanket and Ukraine will die as a country, fall into economic ruin and have absolutely zero means to defend itself in the future against further aggression. Would you feel comfortable returning to a country that has been invaded twice already in the past 10 years, has zero security blanket in the future and the aggressor is literally your next door neighbour who pinky promises he won't do it again?

After your neighbour already broke an actual security agreement with you, in writing, Lol.

Yeah, Maybe so. Probably so. Definitely so. Damn this is depressing. 

Roseanne has completely snapped. She genuinely needs to be institutionalized, not put on a stage or given a freaking Netflix special.