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Forums - Gaming - Microsoft's Blizzard deal, fans should be worried

Ryuu96 said:
Kyuu said:

There are a lot of talent that MS and others could step in to acquire or fund and provide tools to. The numbers far exceed the support they're actually getting from big publishers, and some have to depend on Kickstarter to fund their projects. My most anticipated game since Elden Ring is in fact a Kickstarter project, Eiyuden Chronicle.

Wild Arms and Shadow Hearts creators recently started a couple of Kickstarter RPG projects. The Wild Arms guy tried to approach Sony multiple times and was pretty much given the cold shoulder. Pretty sure Falcom recently commented that the budget is the limiting factor as to why their games are graphically/technically poor. Fumito Ueda was fortunate enough to have his project backed by Epic Games, which I'm very grateful for, he's my tied favorite game director alongside Miyazaki. Companies that are going under like Tri-Ace could also use a hand, if MS steps in and revives or acquires them, everyone should be grateful because the alternative here is their likely demise.

Such talents is where Microsoft's $80 billion, or even a fraction of that, should've gone to. And no, it isn't "risky" for a giant like Microsoft that shits billion of dollars like it's nothing. AA games cost less than 50 million to make. 10 AA games = 500 million, maybe a few hundred million $ more for establishing efficient and advanced development environments. The "risk" is so minimal for MS that it's silly to call it one.

A timeline where we are openly cheering for the filthy rich to acquire everything has to be the darkest of timelines.

As I've said though, they're literally doing both. Spending $69bn doesn't stop them from doing the other things that you want them to do so I don't understand the complaint. Isn't Eiyuden Chronicles coming to Game Pass on day one? That's just another form of Microsoft providing financial support to a developer.

If you simply dislike large companies acquiring large companies then that is fine but all the stuff about what Microsoft should have done instead, despite the fact that they are doing that stuff, is a bit odd to complain about Imho...It seems like your actual complaint is simply not liking large publisher acquisitions.

Nobody thinks it's risky, Microsoft is literally doing both things as we speak from acquiring large publishers, acquiring smaller developers, funding projects, providing financial assistance through Game Pass, improving and providing tools (see Game Stack). They're doing almost everything you're asking.

So, Microsoft is spending billions on that stuff already. That $69bn spent on Activision was just chilling in the bank in a total balance of $100bn+ and Microsoft was looking to invest it quickly. It probably would have just been used on something else. They tried to acquire Pinterest for $50bn and Discord for over $10bn as well, Lol. It is earmarked for acquisitions.

Kyuu said:

Psychonauts 2's completion had nothing to do with them, just like Minecraft before it.

This isn't entirely true; Tim has praised Microsoft a lot for Psychonauts 2, it had a lot of cut content and they were running out of budget until Microsoft acquired them, Tim said the acquisition helped them to delay the game and add back a bunch of the cut content, including the praised boss fights.

And I literally responsed to this argument saying:

"Yes, more of those, less ABK/Zenimax/Mojang (small but not really) please. I hope I didn't give the impression that I didn't know about Microsoft's smaller acquisitions/partnerships."

Let me reiterate that I never denied that Microsoft does both, but the 2nd is unnecessary in all circumstances. If Microsoft wants more, preferably, they should always go for the 1st. Talent, struggling studios, new and small studios are everywhere. Why put an arbitrary limit to how much MS should spend on them provided as you say they have a $100 billion chilin in the bank? I'd rather those "extra" billions be invested in growing talent even further, than to have them wasted on controlling massive and thriving publishers. How is that odd?

Eiyuden on Game Pass is more of a trade than financial support (potential loss in sales, vs an increase in exposure/players). Chris Dring revealed in a new article that several indies are unhappy or hesitant about services and Game Pass, not necessarily because they're "bad", but because they're an unexplored territory that can't be calculated by conventional means. Oddworld Inhabitants had over 5 million players in a month on Playstation and yet regretted the deal, thinking the loss in "potential sales" wasn't worth it. I'm not taking sides here, I'm just saying the shift to services is complicating things. And "engagement/playercount" is an overblown and controversial stat.

Well if MS did help with Psychonauts 2, then that's cool and I stand corrected. But it only solidifies my argument that they should be supporting more studios like that. The more the merrier.

Last edited by Kyuu - on 08 October 2022

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KratosLives said:

Yeah it's good to have more games on gamepass, but you'll be getting less exclusives than what you should be getting. If you own multiple consoles it's no issue, but if I was strictly on xbox i'd be pissed.

Are games less fun if they are also available on other platforms? Why should Xbox owners be pissed if games they can enjoy on their own console can also be enjoyed by others on other platforms?

I'll never get the glorification of exclusives. Exclusivity doesn't make a game better.



chakkra said:

Wait.. did you just say that Halo and Gears have more things in common than all of the "Third person perspective and a focus on singleplayer" games on Playstation?? Dude, Halo and Gears are not even in the same genre..

What's next? are you going to tell me that you see more similarities between Gears 5 and Gears Tactics than between TLOU and Uncharted?

See this nonsense right here? This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is exactly why I feel the 'argument' people use about Sony's games all being the same because they're mostly part of a very broad, over-arching, nearly-all-encompassing genre is so inane I swear it's satire. There's no way anyone actually believes that Gears of War and Halo have less in common with one another than, say, Ratchet & Clank and Bloodborne. 

I refuse to believe you're serious. 

Ryuu96 said:

Implying that Halo/Gears are that similar is just as silly as the Xbox fans saying that all PlayStation games are the same, Lol. It's lowering yourself to that level of debate, a level which makes zero sense.

"Yet aside from the 1st vs 3rd person perspectives" - You say this as if this isn't already a huge difference for a shooter, Lol.

Halo/Gears look nothing alike. Halo is often more vibrant, colourful with grand sci-fi set pieces and futuristic equipment. Gears is often more dreary, dark, realistic and closer to modern look, they have two completely different art-styles.

Halo/Gears also feel nothing alike; I don't even know how you can play both games and say this with a straight face, Lol. Heck...Not even some Halo's feel like other Halo's, Lol. Gears has relatively kept the same feel since its inception whilst Halo has changed it up quite a bit. I like them both, but I'd always prefer Halo's gameplay and always get demolished on Gears MP. The combat encounters are completely different.

"Space marine shooters fighting aliens" - This isn't even accurate either, the COG in GoW aren't even space marines, they've never even stepped one foot in space throughout the whole of Gears 1-5, Lol. The Locust (the enemies in GoW) are not aliens either, they're native inhabitants to Sera, the planet which GoW takes place on.

The Locust and Covenant couldn't be any more different in terms of motivation, technology, story, design and feel to fight.

Even with Halo/Gears having heavy military themes too, they're still different tonally, Gears is a lot more personal than Halo I would say, it's less a story about humanity at war and more a story about "brothers" while Halo has Chief basically solo everything and barely show any emotion whilst doing it (although he receives more characterisation in later games) it is mostly just Chief kicking ass with a grander story overlapped over him.

If does feel like you've not played either and just think they're similar because they've both got guns and have military themes, Lol.

As for Pentiment...It doesn't help your argument that you just discount any game simply because you've personally not heard of it, isn't the first time that you've completely discounted an Xbox game on the basis that you specifically haven't heard of it, Lol.

I think you're reaching pretty far by nitpicking minor details to make these two sound less similar than they actually are. 

Keep in mind I didn't say they were the SAME, just that they have MORE in common with one another in terms of look and feel than...

...you know what? Nevermind. I made a very simple, basic statement about matters of degrees and everyone is acting like I spoke with some absolute, reaching SO GODDAMN FAR to put words in my mouth or misrepresent what I said that it's clear that this is just console war BS rearing its ugly head. My Statement. 

As stated.

Is simply

That Gears of war and Halo

have more in common with one another

Than pretty much any pair of two Sony games. 

That is it. Not that they are identical. Not that sony games do not share common traits and details. Not that the shift in perspective from first to third is insignificant (just that it isn't as big a deal as people who are SUPER into these games seem to think it is...and look at that, you have a HALO icon, of course you're going to be far more pedantic about the details than the average person.) And not that the subtle differences between them don't matter. 

And yet you're over here trying to lecture me because the COG aren't actually space marines like that changes the gameplay, look, feel, or style at all. They're space marines. the UNSC are space marines. The COG are space marines. they're all space marines. Not LITERALLY, since they don't carry the title of 'marine' since 'marine' is a strictly United States designation for elite military squad. None of them are literally space marines, but for all intents and purposes they're the generic 'space marine'. 

My argument from the get-go was always about shades of black, matter of degrees, and spectrums. And yet both of you are sitting here acting high and mighty arguing semantics and minute details like it matters. 

and yes, The fact that I don't know what the heck Pentiment is absolutely IS a knock against it. I keep up to date on all the major consoles and publishers. I join groups online to keep up on upcoming games and releases, I spend hours a day every day just browsing news sites and scouring the internet to learn more about upcoming games. I used to do journalism for this very site. Keeping up on this shit is a not-insignificant part of my life and I've never heard of this game. And I actively seek out information on upcoming games, especially exclusives. I browse Metacritic daily to see if there have been any new releases I missed. So yeah, if this game some how managed to avoid me despite all that, it's not likely to be selling consoles. Period. Maybe it'll become a sleeper hit (I'd love to see that), but given my complete and utter lack of awareness of it up to this point tells me it's no God of War Ragnarok or Starfield or Tears of the Kingdom. 



My Console Library:

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PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Wow. How someone can say gears and halo are alike with a straight face but think all of Sonys single player narrative 3rd person games are nothing alike is just golden.
I know this is a fan made demo. But tell me this doesnt feel like a Sony game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2by40NK8Xc

Point being all of what you said is wrong even To them that says that every Sony game is the same by being 3rd person. But you have to admit they have more in common with each other then Halo and Gears when even a fan can nail that style down.



Runa216 said:
chakkra said:

Wait.. did you just say that Halo and Gears have more things in common than all of the "Third person perspective and a focus on singleplayer" games on Playstation?? Dude, Halo and Gears are not even in the same genre..

What's next? are you going to tell me that you see more similarities between Gears 5 and Gears Tactics than between TLOU and Uncharted?

See this nonsense right here? This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is exactly why I feel the 'argument' people use about Sony's games all being the same because they're mostly part of a very broad, over-arching, nearly-all-encompassing genre is so inane I swear it's satire. There's no way anyone actually believes that Gears of War and Halo have less in common with one another than, say, Ratchet & Clank and Bloodborne. 

I refuse to believe you're serious. 

Ryuu96 said:

Implying that Halo/Gears are that similar is just as silly as the Xbox fans saying that all PlayStation games are the same, Lol. It's lowering yourself to that level of debate, a level which makes zero sense.

"Yet aside from the 1st vs 3rd person perspectives" - You say this as if this isn't already a huge difference for a shooter, Lol.

Halo/Gears look nothing alike. Halo is often more vibrant, colourful with grand sci-fi set pieces and futuristic equipment. Gears is often more dreary, dark, realistic and closer to modern look, they have two completely different art-styles.

Halo/Gears also feel nothing alike; I don't even know how you can play both games and say this with a straight face, Lol. Heck...Not even some Halo's feel like other Halo's, Lol. Gears has relatively kept the same feel since its inception whilst Halo has changed it up quite a bit. I like them both, but I'd always prefer Halo's gameplay and always get demolished on Gears MP. The combat encounters are completely different.

"Space marine shooters fighting aliens" - This isn't even accurate either, the COG in GoW aren't even space marines, they've never even stepped one foot in space throughout the whole of Gears 1-5, Lol. The Locust (the enemies in GoW) are not aliens either, they're native inhabitants to Sera, the planet which GoW takes place on.

The Locust and Covenant couldn't be any more different in terms of motivation, technology, story, design and feel to fight.

Even with Halo/Gears having heavy military themes too, they're still different tonally, Gears is a lot more personal than Halo I would say, it's less a story about humanity at war and more a story about "brothers" while Halo has Chief basically solo everything and barely show any emotion whilst doing it (although he receives more characterisation in later games) it is mostly just Chief kicking ass with a grander story overlapped over him.

If does feel like you've not played either and just think they're similar because they've both got guns and have military themes, Lol.

As for Pentiment...It doesn't help your argument that you just discount any game simply because you've personally not heard of it, isn't the first time that you've completely discounted an Xbox game on the basis that you specifically haven't heard of it, Lol.

I think you're reaching pretty far by nitpicking minor details to make these two sound less similar than they actually are. 

Keep in mind I didn't say they were the SAME, just that they have MORE in common with one another in terms of look and feel than...

...you know what? Nevermind. I made a very simple, basic statement about matters of degrees and everyone is acting like I spoke with some absolute, reaching SO GODDAMN FAR to put words in my mouth or misrepresent what I said that it's clear that this is just console war BS rearing its ugly head. My Statement. 

As stated.

Is simply

That Gears of war and Halo

have more in common with one another

Than pretty much any pair of two Sony games. 

That is it. Not that they are identical. Not that sony games do not share common traits and details. Not that the shift in perspective from first to third is insignificant (just that it isn't as big a deal as people who are SUPER into these games seem to think it is...and look at that, you have a HALO icon, of course you're going to be far more pedantic about the details than the average person.) And not that the subtle differences between them don't matter. 

And yet you're over here trying to lecture me because the COG aren't actually space marines like that changes the gameplay, look, feel, or style at all. They're space marines. the UNSC are space marines. The COG are space marines. they're all space marines. Not LITERALLY, since they don't carry the title of 'marine' since 'marine' is a strictly United States designation for elite military squad. None of them are literally space marines, but for all intents and purposes they're the generic 'space marine'. 

My argument from the get-go was always about shades of black, matter of degrees, and spectrums. And yet both of you are sitting here acting high and mighty arguing semantics and minute details like it matters. 

and yes, The fact that I don't know what the heck Pentiment is absolutely IS a knock against it. I keep up to date on all the major consoles and publishers. I join groups online to keep up on upcoming games and releases, I spend hours a day every day just browsing news sites and scouring the internet to learn more about upcoming games. I used to do journalism for this very site. Keeping up on this shit is a not-insignificant part of my life and I've never heard of this game. And I actively seek out information on upcoming games, especially exclusives. I browse Metacritic daily to see if there have been any new releases I missed. So yeah, if this game some how managed to avoid me despite all that, it's not likely to be selling consoles. Period. Maybe it'll become a sleeper hit (I'd love to see that), but given my complete and utter lack of awareness of it up to this point tells me it's no God of War Ragnarok or Starfield or Tears of the Kingdom. 

Yes, Gears and Halo have more in common then any two Sony ips your golden my dude just golden. You clearly never even played Gears or Halo if you think they feel or play anything alike.

I have played many PS Story driving single player games and like that video i posted above they all feel more alike with a change of characters and story and powers then Gears or Halo. They all follow the same formula even if they are different games.

And if you are going to bring in games like ratchet etc well then i give you Grounded. Dont just pick and choose games you want to leave out to try make your point valid when its a bunch of horse shit and you know it so thats why your trying to pick and choose what games should be included.



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Runa216 said:
Ryuu96 said:

-Snip-

I think you're reaching pretty far by nitpicking minor details to make these two sound less similar than they actually are. 

Keep in mind I didn't say they were the SAME, just that they have MORE in common with one another in terms of look and feel than...

...you know what? Nevermind. I made a very simple, basic statement about matters of degrees and everyone is acting like I spoke with some absolute, reaching SO GODDAMN FAR to put words in my mouth or misrepresent what I said that it's clear that this is just console war BS rearing its ugly head. My Statement. 

As stated.

Is simply

That Gears of war and Halo

have more in common with one another

Than pretty much any pair of two Sony games. 

That is it. Not that they are identical. Not that sony games do not share common traits and details. Not that the shift in perspective from first to third is insignificant (just that it isn't as big a deal as people who are SUPER into these games seem to think it is...and look at that, you have a HALO icon, of course you're going to be far more pedantic about the details than the average person.) And not that the subtle differences between them don't matter. 

And yet you're over here trying to lecture me because the COG aren't actually space marines like that changes the gameplay, look, feel, or style at all. They're space marines. the UNSC are space marines. The COG are space marines. they're all space marines. Not LITERALLY, since they don't carry the title of 'marine' since 'marine' is a strictly United States designation for elite military squad. None of them are literally space marines, but for all intents and purposes they're the generic 'space marine'. 

My argument from the get-go was always about shades of black, matter of degrees, and spectrums. And yet both of you are sitting here acting high and mighty arguing semantics and minute details like it matters. 

and yes, The fact that I don't know what the heck Pentiment is absolutely IS a knock against it. I keep up to date on all the major consoles and publishers. I join groups online to keep up on upcoming games and releases, I spend hours a day every day just browsing news sites and scouring the internet to learn more about upcoming games. I used to do journalism for this very site. Keeping up on this shit is a not-insignificant part of my life and I've never heard of this game. And I actively seek out information on upcoming games, especially exclusives. I browse Metacritic daily to see if there have been any new releases I missed. So yeah, if this game some how managed to avoid me despite all that, it's not likely to be selling consoles. Period. Maybe it'll become a sleeper hit (I'd love to see that), but given my complete and utter lack of awareness of it up to this point tells me it's no God of War Ragnarok or Starfield or Tears of the Kingdom. 

Here's what you said.

And every time I've ever argued that fact, I point out that bit about Halo and Gears being so similar, and I get the same kick-back of 'they're not even the same perspective', like that separates them entirely despite their overall look and feel are really similar. 

The overall look and feel are "really similar"

You've never played Halo and Gears have you? Lol. The reason that you get 'kick-back' is because they do not feel anything alike and your entire argument is basically, they're really similar because they're military themed and have guns, you couldn't even get basic plot points about Gears of War correct, Lol.

These aren't minor details, 1st vs 3rd person is not a minor detail when it comes to a shooter, a cover-based shooter vs an arena shooter like Halo is not a minor difference, a completely different art-style, engine and physics are not minor details, completely different shooting, vehicular combat, movement are not minor details.

Yeah, I have a Halo icon, I've played every single Halo and every single Gears of War, hence why I know that they aren't similar at all, if they were as similar as you were claiming then Gears would sell as well as Halo but it doesn't, I know multiple Halo fans who don't like Gears and vice versa because guess what, they are far from "really similar"

I didn't say "because the COG aren't actually space marines like that changes the gameplay, look, feel, or style at all." but when you can't get basic story plot points right and then claim two games are really similar, it shows that you don't know what you're talking about, of course the COG not being space marines and the Locust not being aliens doesn't change the look or gameplay but it does change another significant difference between the two, the story.

COG are not space marines, what are you talking about, Lol. Are you confusing Gears of War with Warhammer? Lol. COG are space marines as much as the military dudes you play as in Modern Warfare 2 are space marines, I.E. Not at all. Space marines are soldiers who operate in space or alien worlds, neither of which apply to COG, Sera is just the planet for Gears of War's Earth, COG never step one foot in space.

As for Pentiment...You clearly don't research well enough, I mean, the game was literally announced on Xbox's E3 stage and is Obsidian's next title. You also claimed to not know anything about Tell Me Why in the past (coincidentally another Xbox exclusive) and discounted it because you, Runa, had never heard of it.

And as I said, for clarification to everyone, the argument that all Sony titles are the same is silly too, I've not played those though so I'm not really in a position to defend that view in detail. But I have played every Halo/Gears and can say for certain that they feel or look nothing alike, Lol. And Halo is much better

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 08 October 2022

okay



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PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

All pew pew games are the same, just like all jrps are copies of pokemon but with boobies



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Runa216 said:
Mnementh said:

Cherry picking much? Xbox has more than Halo and Gears. If I look at Grounded, Pentiment, Psychonauts, Flight Simulator and Minecraft, than each pair in this list leaves Ratchet&Clank and The Last of Us look somewhat similar.

Also, in the past Sony has catered to worldwide tastes, but they at least abandoned japanese tastes for the most part (illustrated not only by dissolving their japanese game branch) and focusing on western tastes.

Okay, a few things: 

1 - I wasn't 'cherry picking', it's well known that Halo and Gears are two of the most popular and successful Xbox game franchises ever. I chose them becuase they're successful and popular and  yet aside from the 1st vs 3rd person perspectives, their overall look, feel, style, and aesthetic are pretty similar. Space marine shooters fighting aliens. Not to say they don't have their niches and don't have strengths and weaknesses, but that they are more similar in look, feel, and tone to each other than any two of the list of Sony games I provided. (The closest you could get is that The Last of Us and Days Gone are both zombie games) 

2 - I deliberately chose to not include games published by a company but on opposing consoles (like Minecraft and Psychonauts) because they're not selling Xbox consoles. Just like MLB the Show isn't selling Sony consoles despite being published by sony. When I make these discussions I'm strict about 'Xbox games' being games you can only get on XBox but not Playstation or Nintendo (I include the family of consoles, so if it's Xbox One and Series X but not Sony/Nintendo then it counts; I also don't factor PC into the equation since if I did Xbox would never get a single game and Sony's output would also slowly be whittled down)

3 - I specifically chose a bunch of well-reviewed, high-selling, popular games on Sony's and Microsoft's; the fact that I had to google what Pentiment even is doesn't help your case at all. 

4 - Have you seen all the JRPGs that either have been or are Sony exclusives for years? Sony very much so has done a good job juggling all worldwide audiences, including Japan (Though Nintendo is still better at Japan and Microsoft is still better at America; The key is that Sony does a bit of EVERYTHING, hence the argument about diveristy). 

1. You still excluded a lot of Xbox games, while including a diversity of PS games, so you alluded that Xbox games are all shooters while PS has all the difference. It is still cherry picking.

2. Eh, exclusivity. I do not care much about that actually, but for the sake of the argument let's exclude them. So what about Grounded and Flight Simulator and Forza?

3. And here you lose me. The discussion is about diversity, but you just bring in popularity. If you ask for the most popular games, than you will touch only a few genres. The real diversity for PS came in the past with games like Gravity Rush, Patapon (oh, how I love that sound), Vib Ribbon, PaRappa, Loco Roco. All games Sony decided to drop. I am excited about Grounded and Pentiment, exactly because they are different. And while we cannot judge the popularity of Pentiment just yet, Grounded despite being unusual and breaking with usual formulas ended up being quite popular with more than 10 million players. If you look for diversity, you exactly look besides the most popular stuff. So excluding these games based on that seems not right. because popularity doesn't change the diversity, I can play Pentiment, even if no one else does. And these games are the exact reason I for the first time own a XBox this gen. Holo and Gears (and Forza, which you conviniently left out) didn't do for me what Pentiment does.

4. Which exactly still are? And from Sony directly? Because remember: this thread actually is about how the ActiBlizz deal damages MS first party. So the exclusivity deals with 3rd-party don't really matter here. And what JRPG still is Sony exclusive, even if we include 3rd-party? Final Fantasy probably, but besides that? Even Falcom games are nowadays multiplats.

I wouldn't say that Xbox has a more diverse lineup of games than PS... yet. At this point in time I see them basically tied. But to reach that point not only did MS improve the diversity of the lineup, Sony actually did reduce it to meet Xbox halfway. We will see how that develops in the future.



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