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Forums - Sony Discussion - Playstation being American-ised is bad for the market, I think

Agente42 on 23 July 2022
Mnementh said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

I'm getting sick-tired with this narrative that games that have good stories and photorealistic graphics aren't "real games" but "interactive movies". It's like in the early 2000 where anything should have great and top-notch graphics otherwise it didn't deserve to be played, only in reverse

Well, let's look at it this way: you have but creators tend to imitate with their works. This is what cinematic games are. And sure, I understand it from a company standpoint: marketing to the known works better than marketing to the unknown. But what pushes the medium forward will be other stuff.

It's like early movies tried to emulate theater plays instead of using the new techniques like close-ups, different camera angles or moving camera to their advantage.

Excelente explanation and exemplification.

Cinematic games are excellent, but arcade games and social games push more the medium than from an innovative standpoint. 



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eva01beserk on 23 July 2022

Production value has nothing to do with gameplay or genre. Arguing that high production value is not Japanese does not make any sense. Specially since we have seen Japanese studios make games like final fantasy and resident evil with high production value and strong stories and both still very different from each other.



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IcaroRibeiro on 23 July 2022
Mnementh said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

I'm getting sick-tired with this narrative that games that have good stories and photorealistic graphics aren't "real games" but "interactive movies". It's like in the early 2000 where anything should have great and top-notch graphics otherwise it didn't deserve to be played, only in reverse

Well, let's look at it this way: you have but creators tend to imitate with their works. This is what cinematic games are. And sure, I understand it from a company standpoint: marketing to the known works better than marketing to the unknown. But what pushes the medium forward will be other stuff.

It's like early movies tried to emulate theater plays instead of using the new techniques like close-ups, different camera angles or moving camera to their advantage.

Nonsense. It might be true to very few specific games like Detroit or Life is Strange (which I found to be great games regardless), but for the majority of games? I don't get any feeling to be watching a movie when playing God of War, The Last of Us, Uncharted or Horizon just because they have cutscenes. Those are mainly action games meaning that you need to have reflexes, coordination, and precise time-reaction. They are a very, very different kind of entertainment  

I'll spare you the hurdle to answer Bloodborne and Ratchet and Clank because they aren't even story-heavy in the first place

I'm inclined to believe it's the other way around: When games were initially released there was no story and cutscenes were short. People just want gaming to go back to how it was in the 80s because that's what most of gamers over their 30s are used to, they don't dislike cutscenes because they resemble movies but instead because this is not how gaming was "supposed to be". Remove all political subtext and most of the screenplay from TLOU and turn it into a mindless zombie-hunting game and most of the people who dislike it will suddenly stop talking shit about it because the game has, surprisingly, great and tight mechanics and controls (which nobody seems to recognize for the reasons mentioned) 



IcaroRibeiro on 23 July 2022
Shadow1980 said:

I have my theories

I would like to read them because I don't quite get it either. 



The_Liquid_Laser on 23 July 2022
Mnementh said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

I'm getting sick-tired with this narrative that games that have good stories and photorealistic graphics aren't "real games" but "interactive movies". It's like in the early 2000 where anything should have great and top-notch graphics otherwise it didn't deserve to be played, only in reverse

Well, let's look at it this way: you have but creators tend to imitate with their works. This is what cinematic games are. And sure, I understand it from a company standpoint: marketing to the known works better than marketing to the unknown. But what pushes the medium forward will be other stuff.

It's like early movies tried to emulate theater plays instead of using the new techniques like close-ups, different camera angles or moving camera to their advantage.

Totally agree.

Back in the silent movie era they had these silly Keystone Cops type of films with car chases.  This wasn't serious content like Shakespeare, but it actually was advancing the medium of film forward.  You can't do car chases effectively on a stage, and in fact a lot of things common in action movies don't work nearly so well on stage.  Shakespeare was ironically holding the film medium back, because it's more suited to be performed on stage.  Without people trying silly stuff like the Keystone Cops, there probably wouldn't be much of an action movie genre today.

The games that move the gaming genre forward are often what people call "quirky" or "casual" or something else like that: Minecraft, Wii Sports, Ring Fit Adventure, etc....  Sony used to even publish games like these such as Ico or Demon's Souls.  Of course these were gameplay oriented games from Japanese developers.  The OP makes a good point in that Sony is shooting themselves in the foot by focusing only on Western games.  Even if these are the big money makers today, they need to be planting seeds for the big money makers of tomorrow.  Quirky games like Ico and Demon's Souls can lead to Shadow of the Colossus and Elden Ring.  Their investment into Japanese games was to a large part an investment into R&D. 



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eva01beserk on 23 July 2022
IcaroRibeiro said:
Mnementh said:

Well, let's look at it this way: you have but creators tend to imitate with their works. This is what cinematic games are. And sure, I understand it from a company standpoint: marketing to the known works better than marketing to the unknown. But what pushes the medium forward will be other stuff.

It's like early movies tried to emulate theater plays instead of using the new techniques like close-ups, different camera angles or moving camera to their advantage.

Nonsense. It might be true to very few specific games like Detroit or Life is Strange (which I found to be great games regardless), but for the majority of games? I don't get any feeling to be watching a movie when playing God of War, The Last of Us, Uncharted or Horizon just because they have cutscenes. Those are mainly action games meaning that you need to have reflexes, coordination, and precise time-reaction. They are a very, very different kind of entertainment  

I'll spare you the hurdle to answer Bloodborne and Ratchet and Clank because they aren't even story-heavy in the first place

I'm inclined to believe it's the other way around: When games were initially released there was no story and cutscenes were short. People just want gaming to go back to how it was in the 80s because that's what most of gamers over their 30s are used to, they don't dislike cutscenes because they resemble movies but instead because this is not how gaming was "supposed to be". Remove all political subtext and most of the screenplay from TLOU and turn it into a mindless zombie-hunting game and most of the people who dislike it will suddenly stop talking shit about it because the game has, surprisingly, great and tight mechanics and controls (which nobody seems to recognize for the reasons mentioned) 

I don't know man the latest Rachel and clank really kicked it up with the story. Me having played all the titles found the stories more lite hearted and more joke heavy. And with a throw away story. This new one I found to hit all the right spots. Was still very humorous and the story was actually deep and had some points that really had me captivated. 

This is what I don't like about this topic that for me a game like ratchet and clank was able to keep everything that made all the previous great with the platforming and shooting and humor. But at the same time they added the high production value and still added a great story and high visuals. Wich only added to the experience. With like you said, you remove all of that and you still have a great classic ratchet and clank gameplay. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Wman1996 on 23 July 2022

I suppose PlayStation used to go more head-to-head with Nintendo in the sense that they had more IPs that were cartoony or family-friendly (or both). But they've been trying to differentiate themselves from Nintendo from the beginning. Their large amount of T and M-rated games is not something Nintendo would do.
They've become less and less like Nintendo it seems over time, but I don't think they were ever trying to create similar experiences.



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Norion on 23 July 2022
PullusPardus said:

Sony did not learn from Capcom and Konami when they tried to "expand to American market" Excuse my bad terminology or metaphor, but appealing to Americans is akin to being a clown, you will do funny dances and pop culture jokes until one year later when they get amused by something else and think you're just a clown. Its a cutthroat market that implodes on itself every now and then, becoming so fat and so bloated that it pops every few years. Sony doesn't really know why the video game market crashes happened before and they never learn. 

This is probably the funniest paragraph I've read on here in a while.



IcaroRibeiro on 23 July 2022
eva01beserk said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Nonsense. It might be true to very few specific games like Detroit or Life is Strange (which I found to be great games regardless), but for the majority of games? I don't get any feeling to be watching a movie when playing God of War, The Last of Us, Uncharted or Horizon just because they have cutscenes. Those are mainly action games meaning that you need to have reflexes, coordination, and precise time-reaction. They are a very, very different kind of entertainment  

I'll spare you the hurdle to answer Bloodborne and Ratchet and Clank because they aren't even story-heavy in the first place

I'm inclined to believe it's the other way around: When games were initially released there was no story and cutscenes were short. People just want gaming to go back to how it was in the 80s because that's what most of gamers over their 30s are used to, they don't dislike cutscenes because they resemble movies but instead because this is not how gaming was "supposed to be". Remove all political subtext and most of the screenplay from TLOU and turn it into a mindless zombie-hunting game and most of the people who dislike it will suddenly stop talking shit about it because the game has, surprisingly, great and tight mechanics and controls (which nobody seems to recognize for the reasons mentioned) 

I don't know man the latest Rachel and clank really kicked it up with the story. Me having played all the titles found the stories more lite hearted and more joke heavy. And with a throw away story. This new one I found to hit all the right spots. Was still very humorous and the story was actually deep and had some points that really had me captivated. 

This is what I don't like about this topic that for me a game like ratchet and clank was able to keep everything that made all the previous great with the platforming and shooting and humor. But at the same time they added the high production value and still added a great story and high visuals. Wich only added to the experience. With like you said, you remove all of that and you still have a great classic ratchet and clank gameplay. 

I'll give you that because I haven't played the newest Ratchet & Clank yet



Jules98 on 23 July 2022

I don't know if 'photorealistic, cinematic experiences' are bad for the market, but I do sometimes worry about the budgets for some of these high profile games. The costs of making a video game like that goes up and up, an I wonder where the ceiling is where video game sales can no longer recoup the costs. I think we're already kind of seeing this with some games forcing in microtransactions and what not.